billryan
billryan
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
  • Threads: 78
  • Posts: 2699
July 8th, 2017 at 1:51:14 PM permalink
Quote: rudeboyoi

Absolutely. Especially now that they have military grade weaponry at their disposal. The NYPD is the 7th largest army in the world. Then there's also the TSA, DHS, NSA, FBI, CIA, etc. Those federal agencies would be akin to the SS of Nazi germany. Originally the SS were the police of their government but then were brought into performing military operations.



Utter BS.
The NYPD wouldn't be in the top 50 armies in the world, nor was the SS ever a police organization.
Where do you get your "facts"?
It's what you do and not what you say If you're not part of the future then get out of the way
100xOdds
100xOdds
Joined: Feb 5, 2012
  • Threads: 429
  • Posts: 2247
July 8th, 2017 at 2:52:46 PM permalink
Quote: sc15

I'm asking this because of how loose casino credit is, and how easy it is to get into debt you can't actually afford to pay off (so it's not just an instance of someone refusing to pay because they don't want to).

I personally have over a million in credit spread throughout las vegas (lines from 20 - 150K). I DON'T have that much money. If I were to go and lose my line of credit at every place I have it in vegas, I'd be broke. I also have lines of credit at individual properties that exceed the balance of the bank account that I gave them when applying for the credit. The increases were through a host, and the decisions were made based off my play, and they did no additional due diligence to make sure that I had the money to pay it (if they did they would've rejected it since the account I gave them doesn't have much money in it). I have also had additional credit given when I lost my line of credit, and it was given immediately (like, in 10 - 15 minutes. They rush to quickly do the paperwork so they can get me back playing). Obviously no due diligence is done during this.

With this "let the player lose first, worry about collecting later" practice, how much of markers drawn never get paid back?


take out all $1M in credit, chip dump in poker where your crew is at the same table.
declare bankruptcy
$profit$
Craps is paradise (Pair of dice). Lets hear it for the SpeedCount Mathletes :)
billryan
billryan
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
  • Threads: 78
  • Posts: 2699
July 8th, 2017 at 4:13:49 PM permalink
Gambling debts are not always discharged under bankruptcy.
There are a number of factors that would determine it. First ,it depends when the debt occurred. Debts incurred immediately before you file are usually not discharged.
Then it depends on if when you incurred the debt you had a reasonable ability and intent to pay it back. An unemployed person who max out their credit cards and casino credit would more than likely not have them discharged, and it also depends on how willing the casino is to forgive the loan. The casino can fight the bankruptcy and if they claim fraud, the process just got a lot harder. Nevada has and will prosecute people for fraud.
It's what you do and not what you say If you're not part of the future then get out of the way
odiousgambit
odiousgambit
Joined: Nov 9, 2009
  • Threads: 277
  • Posts: 7431
July 8th, 2017 at 5:36:28 PM permalink
Quote: billryan

Gambling debts are not always discharged under bankruptcy.
There are a number of factors that would determine it. First ,it depends when the debt occurred. Debts incurred immediately before you file are usually not discharged.
Then it depends on if when you incurred the debt you had a reasonable ability and intent to pay it back. An unemployed person who max out their credit cards and casino credit would more than likely not have them discharged, and it also depends on how willing the casino is to forgive the loan. The casino can fight the bankruptcy and if they claim fraud, the process just got a lot harder. Nevada has and will prosecute people for fraud.



I think you need to back up what you are saying with sources.

I have looked into this quite a bit. I can say that it is clear that in all cases the casinos want the unpaid markers to be handled as bad checks, which if considered as such are generally not discharged under bankruptcy laws in every state.

States do differ which seems to affect how much you can rack up in debt in markers. Nevada is a state that totally backs up the casinos and not those who owe as far as any leniency.

I am being interrupted and will stop here.
"Baccarat is a game whereby the croupier gathers in money with a flexible sculling oar, then rakes it home. If I could have borrowed his oar I would have stayed." .......... Mark Twain
billryan
billryan
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
  • Threads: 78
  • Posts: 2699
July 8th, 2017 at 7:16:33 PM permalink
http://hillalaw.com/gambling-debt-and-bankruptcy/
It's what you do and not what you say If you're not part of the future then get out of the way
billryan
billryan
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
  • Threads: 78
  • Posts: 2699
July 8th, 2017 at 7:43:24 PM permalink
A casino marker is an advance of credit to a gambler against funds on deposit or tied to a credit card. Sometimes, a casino marker is tied to a casino credit line or a post dated check. If for example a player's credit line is $10,000.00, then the casino will accept a check or checks totaling $10,000.00 from the gambler and agree to hold these checks until some date in the future. Check cashing privileges at a casino can permit a gambler to cash either personal or business checks at the casino cage. The casino will then deposit these checks into their bank account on the next business day or whenever the casino agrees to do so. Different casinos have different policies on checks. In some jurisdictions the post-dating of the check makes it a civil matter or criminal matter if the check is returned. In a bankruptcy case it can complicate matters if the casino has deposited the check, or is holding the post-dated check and presses criminal charges in their jurisdiction for writing a bad check or issuing a check that was never intended to be honored. Bankruptcy cannot stop criminal proceedings against you for bad checks
It's what you do and not what you say If you're not part of the future then get out of the way
MrV
MrV
Joined: Feb 13, 2010
  • Threads: 277
  • Posts: 5727
July 8th, 2017 at 8:16:45 PM permalink
I have read that casinos treat a marker "like a check," but I don't think it is the same as a check, i.e. I question whether it is a "negotiable instrument" under the Uniform Commercial Code.

Regardless, it is risky for a marker to be anything other than a check.

When I applied for credit at MGM I recall signing papers allowing them to verify that I had sufficient funds on deposit to pay up to the amount of credit extended, but I don't recall the paperwork saying that if I didn't pay, they could demand that my bank pay the marker as if it were a check; maybe that fine print was buried in there somewhere.
"What, me worry?"
billryan
billryan
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
  • Threads: 78
  • Posts: 2699
July 8th, 2017 at 8:28:44 PM permalink
I have not had casino credit in years but in the late 1990s, Atlantic City casinos would give me seven days to pay a marker or they would present them to my bank for payment.
It's what you do and not what you say If you're not part of the future then get out of the way
odiousgambit
odiousgambit
Joined: Nov 9, 2009
  • Threads: 277
  • Posts: 7431
July 9th, 2017 at 6:09:27 AM permalink
Quote: billryan

A casino marker is an advance of credit to a gambler against funds on deposit or tied to a credit card. Sometimes, a casino marker is tied to a casino credit line or a post dated check. If for example a player's credit line is $10,000.00, then the casino will accept a check or checks totaling $10,000.00 from the gambler and agree to hold these checks until some date in the future. Check cashing privileges at a casino can permit a gambler to cash either personal or business checks at the casino cage. The casino will then deposit these checks into their bank account on the next business day or whenever the casino agrees to do so. Different casinos have different policies on checks. In some jurisdictions the post-dating of the check makes it a civil matter or criminal matter if the check is returned. In a bankruptcy case it can complicate matters if the casino has deposited the check, or is holding the post-dated check and presses criminal charges in their jurisdiction for writing a bad check or issuing a check that was never intended to be honored. Bankruptcy cannot stop criminal proceedings against you for bad checks



I assumed you were talking about markers only, since this thread is titled "what portion of NV markers are never paid back?", so I reacted to what you were writing, but after going back and re-reading what you wrote, I think we are actually in agreement.

The casinos want it both ways by calling their marker systems 'Casino Credit' , but when it comes time to get their money when the markers go unpaid, all of a sudden it's all about 'bad checks'.
"Baccarat is a game whereby the croupier gathers in money with a flexible sculling oar, then rakes it home. If I could have borrowed his oar I would have stayed." .......... Mark Twain
Dalex64
Dalex64
Joined: Feb 10, 2013
  • Threads: 1
  • Posts: 703
July 9th, 2017 at 8:47:41 AM permalink
I found this educational

https://totalrewards.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/2233/~/caesars-entertainment---casino-credit

Quote:

Once approved, you will need to go to the property Cashier's Cage for ID verification, then you will be able to access your credit. This credit is provided via a Marker, which is a counter check against your casino credit line that will be repaid with funds from your checking account.



Quote:

Q: Can I use the funds for live poker?
A: No, the funds are for table games and slot play only.


  • Jump to: