Face
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Face
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December 2nd, 2014 at 9:53:16 AM permalink
Quote: terapined


Ancient history.



I knew my grandpa.
He was there.
I'm 34.
The opinions of this moderator are for entertainment purposes only.
petroglyph
petroglyph
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December 2nd, 2014 at 10:20:47 PM permalink
http://www.globalresearch.ca/green-light-to-war-on-russia-legislation-in-us-congress-say-no-to-war-with-russia-under-h-res-758-russian-aggression/5417489?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=green-light-to-war-on-russia-legislation-in-us-congress-say-no-to-war-with-russia-under-h-res-758-russian-aggression

"Tensions between Russia and the US are being fueled every day by players who would benefit financially from a resumption of the Cold War which, from 1948 to 1991 cost US taxpayers $20 TRILLION dollars (in 2014 dollars), an amount exceeding our $18 trillion National Debt."

All wars are bankers wars.
Gandler
Gandler
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December 3rd, 2014 at 6:44:02 AM permalink
Quote: petroglyph

http://www.globalresearch.ca/green-light-to-war-on-russia-legislation-in-us-congress-say-no-to-war-with-russia-under-h-res-758-russian-aggression/5417489?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=green-light-to-war-on-russia-legislation-in-us-congress-say-no-to-war-with-russia-under-h-res-758-russian-aggression

"Tensions between Russia and the US are being fueled every day by players who would benefit financially from a resumption of the Cold War which, from 1948 to 1991 cost US taxpayers $20 TRILLION dollars (in 2014 dollars), an amount exceeding our $18 trillion National Debt."

All wars are bankers wars.



By that logic. All things are "Banker (insert action here)". Any project that involves massive spending and borrowing will inevitably benifit "the bankers".
"Whatever is my right as a man is also the right of another; and it becomes my duty to guarantee as well as to possess. -Thomas Paine
petroglyph
petroglyph
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December 3rd, 2014 at 8:11:43 AM permalink
Quote: Gandler

By that logic. All things are "Banker (insert action here)". Any project that involves massive spending and borrowing will inevitably benifit "the bankers".



You are starting to catch on. Wars aren't fought over ideology, they are fought for resources, territory etc., but boil it back down and it is money, or something that resembles money.

Other than 9/11, you don't see Muslims marching on the west. GTFO out of there and mind our own business, these tensions which are none of our business will settle down. Thomas Jefferson wanted us to stay out of foreign matters, as does Ron Paul. Your neocons aren't going to let that happen.

You mentioned our "success" in Libya, that was the most progressive country in the MENA, now it is a two radical faction state, and their light sweet crude sails to China.

Bankers are well known for financing both sides of wars. It seems with all the weapons [US made] that have flowed to Syria the mic is doing quite well there as well. Every secular country in MENA we force regime change, while hundreds of thousands of innocents die.

The central banks finance this horror with money printed out of thin air, loan it to all governments and receive the Vig. You claim to be a neocon now in your worldview. As people tend to vote their pocket book, it makes me think you feel that when you get out of the "service", you will get a cut of the action somehow?
The first country to get oil contracts in Iraq and Libya was China. That to me was not worth a million lives in Iraq, it certainly wasn't worth the 5 thousand Americans that died for the bankers. It definitely wasn't because of wmd, or the twin towers.

When Saddam went to a gold back dinar, the war started. Same thing with Khadafi who wanted an All African gold backed currency. Since the conflict in Libya, his 80 tons of Au haven't been seen. I can understand that you need to keep telling yourself that the neocon doctrine of enforcing peace is the way to bring democracy to the world in the position you are in. Unfortunately where you are and what you are doing can at times rapidly change your mind.
Gandler
Gandler
Joined: Jan 27, 2014
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December 3rd, 2014 at 8:39:52 AM permalink
Quote: petroglyph

You are starting to catch on. Wars aren't fought over ideology, they are fought for resources, territory etc., but boil it back down and it is money, or something that resembles money.



Some are. Vietnam and Korea to name some recent ones. We had nothing to gain from either country, but we wanted to protect our non Communist Allies. The war on terror is Ideology, I doubt we are getting many valuable resources from Afganistan (in fact we are heavily subiziding Afganistan)

Quote:

Other than 9/11, you don't see Muslims marching on the west. GTFO out of there and mind our own business, these tensions which are none of our business will settle down. Thomas Jefferson wanted us to stay out of foreign matters, as does Ron Paul. Your neocons aren't going to let that happen.



The reason we have a Navy (we never had a standing Navy upon our founding, that's why the Coast Guard is actually older than the Navy), is because Muslim Pirates (the term they used back then) were seizing American merchants in the Medditerian and Africa. Thomas Jefferson negiotated with the Turks and said "Why are you enslaving our traders, America has done nothing to harm or insult the Turkish World". The reply was "Allah gives us a right to enslave all infidels for service". Jefferson paid millions in ransom and bribes to stop the Pirate attacks, but after the bribes did not work, a Navy was founded and the War Began (That is a brief summary, Look into Barbary Wars, as they were called, its a very interesting a little know war. And was our first war with "Islmaic Extremsits".)

Even Rand Paul (his son) supports a campaign against ISIS with bombs.



Quote:

You mentioned our "success" in Libya, that was the most progressive country in the MENA, now it is a two radical faction state, and their light sweet crude sails to China.


Yes, as per Obamas objective it was a success. And many in the Arab world actually fully supported that intervention.

Quote:

Bankers are well known for financing both sides of wars. It seems with all the weapons [US made] that have flowed to Syria the mic is doing quite well there as well. Every secular country in MENA we force regime change, while hundreds of thousands of innocents die.


Its unfortunate, but a reality in every war.

Quote:

The central banks finance this horror with money printed out of thin air, loan it to all governments and receive the Vig. You claim to be a neocon now in your worldview. As people tend to vote their pocket book, it makes me think you feel that when you get out of the "service", you will get a cut of the action somehow?
The first country to get oil contracts in Iraq and Libya was China. That to me was not worth a million lives in Iraq, it certainly wasn't worth the 5 thousand Americans that died for the bankers. It definitely wasn't because of wmd, or the twin towers.



I am. And no I don't get vote with my pocket book. I don't know if you are familiar with the structure of the National Guard. But we are part time Army, owned by the state (I am NJ Guard, 68W medic). We work literally 2 days a month, and barely get paid enough to cover the gas money of driving to our drill site. And I am a low enlisted member. I certainly have no mysterious connections or political contacts. I am deployed now so I am I guess full time Army until my deployment here ends, but normally, its a very small part of my life, and does not effect my views (I was a libertarian the majority of my time in the military. I only changed after studying a lot about radical Islam and other countries in school, as well as gaining less faith in people in general. The military has virtually no impact on my views).

In fact most of my political beleifs are counter my personal interests (or what would be if I "voted with my pocket book"...

But the idea that I have some top secret banker job waiting for me is absurd. I am still in college, studying biological anthropology. And my aspiration is to study human evolution. Actually my studies of how primates evolve has contributed more to my view than anything. In my opinion its a good proof of why we need structure in the world. There is a reason some primates such as the neathdrallts got wiped out by their competitors (us humans).

Quote:

When Saddam went to a gold back dinar, the war started. Same thing with Khadafi who wanted an All African gold backed currency. Since the conflict in Libya, his 80 tons of Au haven't been seen. I can understand that you need to keep telling yourself that the neocon doctrine of enforcing peace is the way to bring democracy to the world in the position you are in. Unfortunately where you are and what you are doing can at times rapidly change your mind.



I don't know the details on this so I don't want to speculate. But this sounds like its from some conspiracy theorists site.
"Whatever is my right as a man is also the right of another; and it becomes my duty to guarantee as well as to possess. -Thomas Paine
petroglyph
petroglyph
Joined: Jan 3, 2013
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December 3rd, 2014 at 11:03:50 AM permalink
Quote: Gandler

Some are. Vietnam and Korea to name some recent ones.

Quote:

We had nothing to gain from either country, but we wanted to protect our non Communist Allies. The war on terror is Ideology, I doubt we are getting many valuable resources from Afganistan (in fact we are heavily subiziding Afganistan)

Oh my, this is getting long. It seems you are able to throw opinions out and somehow I need to provide evidence to the contrary, with links and it still doesn't hold up? It does seem a bit like you are softening, whew. Ok, I will try some more. But you are going to have to use the word "conspiracy" more sparingly. If at all possible, save it for when I start bringing up ufo's or bigfoot. I know next to Zip about Korea other than it's strategic location, as is Vietnam. Their coastlines adjacent the China sea and military bases are close to the Red Menace.

Vietnam; The Australians and French were in there before us, drilling for oil and farming cacao. The french are back growing cocoa which is world class quality.
http://www.cc.gatech.edu/~tpilsch/Vietnam.html

Afghanistan; Strategic location for an oil pipeline to the ocean from the "Stan" countries. The recent Pres. Karzai worked for Unocal managing an oil pipeline well before the current conflict.http://www.ronpaulinstitute.org/archives/featured-articles/2013/november/24/can-karzai-save-us.aspx
Also see this;https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mnp7qXjpgRs There has been admitted long time knowledge of a trillion dollars in minerals. China has been mining them during the conflict as well as building a pipeline Across Afg, during the conflict. Lots of resources if you are interested with easy search.

Quote:

The reason we have a Navy (we never had a standing Navy upon our founding, that's why the Coast Guard is actually older than the Navy), is because Muslim Pirates (the term they used back then) were seizing American merchants in the Medditerian and Africa. Thomas Jefferson negiotated with the Turks and said "Why are you enslaving our traders, America has done nothing to harm or insult the Turkish World". The reply was "Allah gives us a right to enslave all infidels for service". Jefferson paid millions in ransom and bribes to stop the Pirate attacks, but after the bribes did not work, a Navy was founded and the War Began (That is a brief summary, Look into Barbary Wars, as they were called, its a very interesting a little know war. And was our first war with "Islmaic Extremsits".)

Even Rand Paul (his son) supports a campaign against ISIS with bombs.

I think Rand fell a long way from the tree. I think he is becoming more of a "tool" all the time. Still he is better than most.

Pirates? You are going to tell me the pirates were predominantly Muslims? I think they were mostly British. Sure, there is/were plenty of thieves that were pirates, lots of them ordained by the British [buccaneers] or the Portugese who brought most of the slaves to the new world.http://www.privateerdragons.com/pirates_famous.html Interesting who owned 4 our of 5 of the biggest slave ships that arrived at New York with human cargo. It is opportunity, and immoral slavery. Today it is estimated there are up to 18000 humans "trafficked" into the US yearly NOW. I have not one word of praise for anyone involved with slavery. Regardless of nation or religion. Because I don't want the west to spend it all combatting the Muslims is not an endorsement of Allah, not at all. The Ottoman empire was a world power for sure, trafficking in everything, as were the Portugese, and the Britts, there are no innocents. But you don't have to follow it back very far to find a greedy banker. http://wgbhnews.org/post/human-trafficking-modern-day-slavery-america
I have read that the "Arab Spring" which started in Tunisia started over the price of commodity's. Namely wheat or corn. Do to the "tbtf" banks exporting inflation to those MENA countries where people were making 3 dollars per day, food prices locally doubled and tripled rapidly. There income couldn't withstand the inflation and they know what caused it. Also, there were competing banking practices between the west and the "sharia" bank which does not allow for interest on loans.


Quote:

Yes, as per Obamas objective it was a success. And many in the Arab world actually fully supported that intervention.

Obama, does what he is told, just like Bush, Clinton, Bush, all the way back to Kennedy, [well I guess if you are looking for a conspiracy we could look at the lone gunmen?]. The Arab world supported Obama bombing Muhammar??? The usual suspects. The french ran out of munitions after the 3rd day. [side note; that reminded me on a documentary about the Normandy invasion. Marines were found wandering around after the third day. They had no orders because the military planners hadn't expected any of them to live that long] Anyway, the first oil company into Libya after the "conflict" was Chinese, I think "CNOOC"?

Quote:

Bankers are well known for financing both sides of wars. It seems with all the weapons [US made] that have flowed to Syria the mic is doing quite well there as well. Every secular country in MENA we force regime change, while hundreds of thousands of innocents die.


Its unfortunate, but a reality in every war.


Quote:

I certainly have no mysterious connections or political contacts. I only changed after studying a lot about radical Islam[key word radical as well as gaining less faith in people in general.the better you will like dogs The military has virtually no impact on my views, give it time

Quote:

But the idea that I have some top secret banker job waiting for me is absurd.

Laughable even. " I am still in college, studying biological anthropology." And my aspiration is to study human evolution. Interesting
Quote:

There is a reason some primates such as the neathdrallts

careful, you are talking about my family,,,,,,,got wiped out by their competitors (us humans).
Gandler
Gandler
Joined: Jan 27, 2014
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December 3rd, 2014 at 11:23:57 AM permalink
Quote: petroglyph



Pirates? You are going to tell me the pirates were predominantly Muslims? I think they were mostly British. Sure, there is/were plenty of thieves that were pirates, lots of them ordained by the British [buccaneers] or the Portugese who brought most of the slaves to the new world.http://www.privateerdragons.com/pirates_famous.html Interesting who owned 4 our of 5 of the biggest slave ships that arrived at New York with human cargo. It is opportunity, and immoral slavery. Today it is estimated there are up to 18000 humans "trafficked" into the US yearly NOW. I have not one word of praise for anyone involved with slavery. Regardless of nation or religion. Because I don't want the west to spend it all combatting the Muslims is not an endorsement of Allah, not at all. The Ottoman empire was a world power for sure, trafficking in everything, as were the Portugese, and the Britts, there are no innocents. But you don't have to follow it back very far to find a greedy banker. http://wgbhnews.org/post/human-trafficking-modern-day-slavery-america
I have read that the "Arab Spring" which started in Tunisia started over the price of commodity's. Namely wheat or corn. Do to the "tbtf" banks exporting inflation to those MENA countries where people were making 3 dollars per day, food prices locally doubled and tripled rapidly. There income couldn't withstand the inflation and they know what caused it. Also, there were competing banking practices between the west and the "sharia" bank which does not allow for interest on loans.



If you don't think the Barbary pirates were predominantly Muslim, then you don't know history. The "pirates" (America's term because of their action) were actually the Navy for the Muslim caliphate. So yes the Turkish "pirates" (again bad term, not mine, as they were actually their Navy) were all Muslim as they were required to be...

And yes by their interpretation (you can read the letters between Jefferson and their emissary) they had a right to enslave Americans because they were infidels. Ironically European countries with strong Navies were mysteriously bothered less by them. But America was an easy target back then.

And I have never demanded that you show evidence. I have only crtized links you provide that are on clearly non academic commerlized cites (if you are going to post links, which again I have never "demanded" , you should post proper articles). You are setting up a lot of strawmen and selective quotes...
"Whatever is my right as a man is also the right of another; and it becomes my duty to guarantee as well as to possess. -Thomas Paine
petroglyph
petroglyph
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AZDuffman
AZDuffman
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December 3rd, 2014 at 2:02:05 PM permalink
Quote: Gandler

Ironically European countries with strong Navies were mysteriously bothered less by them. But America was an easy target back then.



The way I learned it the Europeans just paid the tribute demanded while we decided we were not going to pay, knowing even then that to do so would make us a target worldwide.
Tolerance is the virtue of believing in nothing
Gandler
Gandler
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December 3rd, 2014 at 2:14:33 PM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

The way I learned it the Europeans just paid the tribute demanded while we decided we were not going to pay, knowing even then that to do so would make us a target worldwide.



Yes, true. We did pay not the tributes per say, but the ransoms to release the prisoners. And that did not deter it to keep happening. So Jefferson got sick of paying absurd amounts of money year after year, they decided to take the battle to the Turkish Navies.
"Whatever is my right as a man is also the right of another; and it becomes my duty to guarantee as well as to possess. -Thomas Paine

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