Depositing Cash in Casino

I think this has been discussed here before but not in this way. Someone was asking me this question and I didn't know the answer and couldn't find it so here you go. We all know the 24 hour rule. Deposit 9999.00 or less in cash over a 24 hour period and no reporting to the IRS or Treasury. However, you deposit 9999.00 at 3pm in the cage. Go to the table take out 7k. Loose 3k. Go to the cage at 6pm and deposit 4k in chips. You have now deposited 13999.00. Do they report that. Now lets say you cashed the 4k in chips and go to the cage and deposit that 4k in cash, is that reportable? Or, you wait til 1am go to the cage and bring another 9999.00 to deposit, is that reportable? When does the 24 hour clock start? Lots of questions. Thanks

Am I missing something?

It is my understanding that the CTRs nothing to worry about, unless you are laundering money. It is a requirement on the financial facilities to file forms on large cash transactions, so law enforcement can have a better trail of cash, in the event illegal activity is taking place.
If you are just a well-to-do gambler with the ability to play with 20k-30k, whether the casino is filling out CTRs or not is irrelevant, again, assuming you have no other illegal activity to be concerned with.

1 - Depositing $9,999 may cause suspicion. The casino is within their rights to cover their ass and file the CTR anyway due to suspected 'structuring'.


2 - Although the 'C' in CTR stands for Cash, depositing $4,000 in chips will raise the same structuring suspicions because they'll wonder if you won them or bough them.

Quote: mds

I think this has been discussed here before but not in this way. Someone was asking me this question and I didn't know the answer and couldn't find it so here you go. We all know the 24 hour rule. Deposit 9999.00 or less in cash over a 24 hour period and no reporting to the IRS or Treasury. However, you deposit 9999.00 at 3pm in the cage. Go to the table take out 7k. Loose 3k. Go to the cage at 6pm and deposit 4k in chips. You have now deposited 13999.00. Do they report that. Now lets say you cashed the 4k in chips and go to the cage and deposit that 4k in cash, is that reportable? Or, you wait til 1am go to the cage and bring another 9999.00 to deposit, is that reportable? When does the 24 hour clock start? Lots of questions. Thanks

They all have different amounts they report even under 10k, as low as $2500 at places like coast casinos, to who, I don't know, its not a CTR it's different. Casinos are supposed to report 3k transactions. But its not a CTR. they had to get my info at at the Palms poker room for 6k a few yeas back and I knew the girl fairly well. She apologized but said they were cracking down.

Quote: RaleighCraps

Am I missing something?

It is my understanding that the CTRs nothing to worry about, unless you are laundering money. It is a requirement on the financial facilities to file forms on large cash transactions, so law enforcement can have a better trail of cash, in the event illegal activity is taking place.
If you are just a well-to-do gambler with the ability to play with 20k-30k, whether the casino is filling out CTRs or not is irrelevant, again, assuming you have no other illegal activity to be concerned with.

No people have other reasons. Hidden money from a wife or something in case of a break up, possibly somebody who is being sued or has a judgment.

Quote:

No people have other reasons. Hidden money from a wife or something in case of a break up, possibly somebody who is being sued or has a judgment.

While I can certainly understand why people in that position would yearn for anonymity, I don't see how any CTR filed by a casino with the Feds would be accessible to private parties such as an estranged wife or a creditor.

Are you saying that private parties have access to CTR reports?

Quote: MrV

While I can certainly understand why people in that position would yearn for anonymity, I don't see how any CTR filed by a casino with the Feds would be accessible to private parties such as an estranged wife or a creditor.

Are you saying that private parties have access to CTR reports?

I doubt they have direct access but its a slippery slope.

Obviously, if the CTR generates suspicion, there will be an investigation. If the guy is hiding money from his ex-wife, he probably will look suspicious because there is hidden money to begin with, even if he earned it legit.

Doubtful the Feds will just ask him where he got it and be satisfied. "Sir, are you a terrorist or drug dealer?"

"No."

"Thanks, we believe you."

More likely they will contact known acquaintances.

"M'am, it's about your ex-husbands financial activity."

"Oh, he's pretty broke. Can't even afford child support."

"Oh, that's funny, m'am. Did you know he gambles thirty thousand a night at the casino for the last two months?"

Nothing at all behind this question. He has been going there for years and always brings cash. More than 10k and always puts it on deposit there. Really doesn't care either way just asking. He just doesn't like anyone to know his business. If he didn't have to give his name he wouldn't. But he does so he does. Just likes anonymity for reasons I don't know or care. I personally wire money in and use CL's. I also explained to him you make it the casinos business if you are gambling there.

So, can any of you help me answer this? You deposit 9999.00 at 3pm in the cage. Go to the table take out 7k. Loose 3k. Go to the cage at 6pm and deposit 4k in chips. You have now deposited 13999.00. Do they report that. Now lets say you cashed the 4k in chips and go to the cage and deposit that 4k in cash, is that reportable? Or, you wait til 1am go to the cage and bring another 9999.00 to deposit, is that reportable? When does the 24 hour clock start?

Let's not get all tied up on the why.

People have many reasons.
Some might just have tinfoil hats on.

Many would like to know what exactly they report and to who ans how much. Who can gain access with a court order and whatever other questions. Someone here must work for a casino and knows something.

It is my understanding that the IRS cannot and will not honor a subpoena issued by a state court seeking another person's tax records; if such a subpoena is filed, the IRS will seek to move the matter to Federal District Court and seek it's immediate dismissal.

I assume the same would apply for a CTR, but I am not sure.

Quote: MrV

It is my understanding that the IRS cannot and will not honor a subpoena issued by a state court seeking another person's tax records; if such a subpoena is filed, the IRS will seek to move the matter to Federal District Court and seek it's immediate dismissal.

I assume the same would apply for a CTR, but I am not sure.

I'm not talking about the CTR they report something else possibly to someone else. Thats what I was asking about.

Quote: MrV

It is my understanding that the IRS cannot and will not honor a subpoena issued by a state court seeking another person's tax records; if such a subpoena is filed, the IRS will seek to move the matter to Federal District Court and seek it's immediate dismissal.

I assume the same would apply for a CTR, but I am not sure.

I'm not talking about the CTR they report something else possibly to someone else. Thats what I was asking about.

Quote: mds

However, you deposit 9999.00 at 3pm in the cage. Go to the table take out 7k. Loose 3k. Go to the cage at 6pm and deposit 4k in chips. You have now deposited 13999.00. Do they report that.

Quote: CTR FAQ

Debits must be added to debits, and credits must be added to credits. If cash debit or credit totals exceed $10,000 in a business day, a CTR is required. If debits and credits each exceed $10,000, they can each be reported on a single CTR, but financial institutions should not off-set debits and credits against one another

CTR FAQ can be read here

You'll need to decide for yourself if it's preferable to transport large sums of cash, or to deal with CTRs and SARs.

Quote: mds

Or, you wait til 1am go to the cage and bring another 9999.00 to deposit

That sounds like structuring, and can raise even more questions.


edit: formatting