Riding my A**/Stupid Law
Quote: WizardGood point. I'm sure that has a lot to do with it on two-lane highways, where passing is hard. However, I've spent way too much of my life stuck in four/five-lane L.A. traffic jams when traffic ranges from 0 to 30 MPH. You still see these clumps all the time. My suspicion is each clump is caused by some minor thing, like somebody tapping on the brake, and it snowballs.
Wouldn't this be rather easy to model with math?
Take a standard 4 lane road, speed limit 70 mph, so we will go with 7 car lengths separation.
Given a set car length, we can figure how many cars per minute can move through that space.
Now, if we slow that traffic down to 50 mph, we are going to get a drastic reduction in throughput.
So, if we continue to send the full complement of cars that could get through at 70 mph, but they are only doing 50 mph, then we should be able to predict how many cars are going to get jammed up, and how long that jam up will be, and how long before it clears.
Too much work for my pea brain, but it seems like it would be a road engineer 101 class assignment.
If you make a dangerous turn causing an accident, you make the turn and could have waited until it's safe. Guy in left lane sees you dying in rear view mirror seeing Darwin take another one and keeps driving safely. LOOK BEFORE YOU TURN AND DON'T TURN IF UNSAFE would be the issue. You're practically saying the second to last person to leave should shut the door and the last person isn't responsible.Quote: superrickIt all boils down to one thing if you ever had a love one killed because someone wouldn't move over and block the left lane. You would love these laws that will give someone a ticket that thinks it their right to block everybody behind them.
Move over, you could be the one that kills someone from negligence of obeying common sense laws of driving, you do not have the right to block everybody behind you and if you think you do they should take your license away. Your a danger to everybody on the road!
None of the points that you tried to make have anything to do with driving skills, because of drivers like you, they are making laws to put a stop to you causing accidents, because you think you have the right to slow everybody down! Stop driving and take the bus or cab, your a danger to society when your driving!
Every year in the Florida Keys there were people killed, just because some driver thought they had the right to stop others from passing them. The driver that was behind took a chance and went to make a pass, and not only killed his passengers, but killed the innocent driver that was heading the other way!
Laws like making you move over after passing are there for the safety of all those concerned if you don't like the law get off the road, a driver license is a privilege not a right! That is why they can take your license away if you are a dangerous driver!
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Out of the two of us, you're more likely to die on the highway. I take the advantage plays and you gamble.Quote: AxiomOfChoicelol.. you drive in the left lane because you don't want to accidentally leave the freeway. If you are not in control of whether or not your car leaves the freeway you are a menace, because you are not paying attention. Just set the cruise control and tune out, right?
Quote: onenickelmiracleOut of the two of us, you're more likely to die on the highway.
That's not true at all. I'm always paying attention, which allows to me avoid accidents. I always know where the cars on the road around me are, so I know where I can go if I need to. I also know my car's limits so I know what I can and can't do if necessary. You are tuned out, with cruise control set, not even knowing what lane you are in or where the lanes lead, letting the car do as much of the driving as possible. I'll bet that you have no clue what is behind or beside you. You may as well be asleep.
If anything unexpected ever happens in front of you, you are in trouble. If the same thing happens in front of me I will be able to react and avoid it.
Paying attention and reacting can't always save you. Sometimes there isn't time to react and there are no options. It's checkmate.Quote: AxiomOfChoiceThat's not true at all. I'm always paying attention, which allows to me avoid accidents. I always know where the cars on the road around me are, so I know where I can go if I need to. I also know my car's limits so I know what I can and can't do if necessary. You are tuned out, with cruise control set, not even knowing what lane you are in or where the lanes lead, letting the car do as much of the driving as possible. I'll bet that you have no clue what is behind or beside you. You may as well be asleep.
If anything unexpected ever happens in front of you, you are in trouble. If the same thing happens in front of me I will be able to react and avoid it.
Quote: onenickelmiraclePaying attention and reacting can't always save you. Sometimes there isn't time to react and there are no options. It's checkmate.
Just because some accidents can't be avoided, that doesn't mean many (or most?) cannot be avoided.
Quote: onenickelmiraclePaying attention and reacting can't always save you. Sometimes there isn't time to react and there are no options. It's checkmate.
What are you talking about??? You think you have a better chance if you're not paying attention than if you are? Good luck with that!
You are aggressive when there might not be a good reason. Very dangerous being two feet behind someone with your high beams on with the person in front holding your fate in hand. All you have to do is wait up and hold back for a safe opportuity. Don't argue and learn instead assured clear distance is your best friend.Quote: AxiomOfChoiceWhat are you talking about??? You think you have a better chance if you're not paying attention than if you are? Good luck with that!
Quote: onenickelmiracleYou are aggressive when there might not be a good reason. .
I don't even know who I'm agreeing with or disagreeing
with here. I was a professional driver for years, as are
all cab drivers. And you learn to be aggressive at all times.
It's a fact that cab drivers have far more hours on the road
than other car drivers, and far fewer accidents. It's because
driving aggressively keeps you alert and attentive at all
times. I loved driving a cab, I was the master of the car
and the road at all times.
It is so damned easy it is hard to believe anyone is arguing about it--the left lane is for faster traffic. The enforcers of traffic regulations are the cops, not some driver who chooses to cruise in the left lane and pay little attention to what is going on around him.
Drive to survive--you don't have to be aggressive but you have to be attentive at all times and know what to do when other drivers make mistakes.
Quote: onenickelmiraclePaying attention and reacting can't always save you. Sometimes there isn't time to react and there are no options. It's checkmate.
Good point. Ask anyone who's ever hit a deer.
Quote: 1BBGood point. Ask anyone who's ever hit a deer.
I accelerated.
Quote: onenickelmiraclePaying attention and reacting can't always save you. Sometimes there isn't time to react and there are no options. It's checkmate.
So...you seem to be making the case that it is not worth paying attention because there is a slight chance there might not be a way to avoid something happening anyway?
True. In rare cases, there may be absolutely no chance of you doing anything about the incident that happens--say a deer runs in front of you. You will hit the deer. What happens next? Do you know what is going on around you? Do you swerve and hit a car in the lane next to you because you were unaware they were there?
The reason I am saying that you seem to be making the case for not paying attention is an earlier comment about getting in the left lane and looking ahead, etc. Then this about some things being unavoidable. I guess I don't really think that what you are doing BUT it does seem that you are supporting some bad driving habits at the very least!!
Quote: petroglyphI worked in the mid 90's from Riverside Calif, down to San Diego in a lot of country and housing developments. Marveling at the steepness of some of their driveways and after enduring some freeway with them, I thought justice would be served with a good 6 inches of snow.
Are the earthquakes not enough? :)
Quote:It is best served cold you know.
Nature's own best revenge?
Quote: onenickelmiraclePaying attention and reacting can't always save you. Sometimes there isn't time to react and there are no options. It's checkmate.
Quote: 1BBGood point. Ask anyone who's ever hit a deer.
Dangerously false. If the wheels are right side down and all input devices are functional (skinny pedal, fat pedal, steering wheel), there is always an option. To think otherwise is to invite doom as a passenger.
Quote: 1BBGood point. Ask anyone who's ever hit a deer.
I've had a deer jump out in front of me before. I didn't hit it. Why? Because I was paying attention. I saw the glint in its eyes from the bushes from very far back, and when it jumped out, I was prepared. Brake slightly; swerve around it. No problems, and this was back in the day before I drove a sports can that could actually handle.
OneNickel, with his cruise control on, blissfully unaware of which lane he is in or where that lane leads, would have slammed right into it.
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceI've had a deer jump out in front of me before. I didn't hit it. Why? Because I was paying attention. I saw the glint in its eyes from the bushes from very far back, and when it jumped out, I was prepared. Brake slightly; swerve around it. No problems, and this was back in the day before I drove a sports can that could actually handle.
OneNickel, with his cruise control on, blissfully unaware of which lane he is in or where that lane leads, would have slammed right into it.
Come on you guys. Face, Axiom, I have no doubt that you are good drivers. I am too but how can you be so confident to think that your skills will get you out of every scenario? I have never hit a deer but my wife once hit one with her Corvette. It wasn't pretty.
Drive down my road some night. I'll hide in the bushes and throw something in your path, let's say a plastic lawn chair. You'll hit it every time. Drive slow, drive fast, do whatever you want. No swerving, no glint in the eyes just the sound of the lawn chair bouncing off your car. That's how deer can be. They don't stand still while you swerve, they jump out without warning.
Sidebar if I may: Does anyone think those deer whistles actually work?
Quote: 1BBCome on you guys. Face, Axiom, I have no doubt that you are good drivers. I am too but how can you be so confident to think that your skills will get you out of every scenario? I have never hit a deer but my wife once hit one with her Corvette. It wasn't pretty.
Drive down my road some night. I'll hide in the bushes and throw something in your path, let's say a plastic lawn chair. You'll hit it every time. Drive slow, drive fast, do whatever you want. No swerving, no glint in the eyes just the sound of the lawn chair bouncing off your car. That's how deer can be. They don't stand still while you swerve, they jump out without warning.
Sidebar if I may: Does anyone think those deer whistles actually work?
You're more likely to avoid an accident if you are aware of your surrounding (cars around you) and are "actively driving" (rather than cruise control + looking just in front of you). If you know where those cars are, you can (not always) avoid hitting something in front of you. Which is why it pisses me off when I'm driving on the free way, no traffic at all, you can go at whatever speed you like -- and there's some f***en moron, who's one lane over directly behind me [my blind spot]. I accelerate and try to get him out of my blind spot -- but sure enough, the guy insists on accelerating with me and staying in my blind spot. These are the people we have to share the road with. =\ You never want someone in your blind spot, but if they are there, it's better to be aware that someone COULD be there than having no idea they are there at all (until it's too late).
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceI've had a deer jump out in front of me before. I didn't hit it. Why? Because I was paying attention. I saw the glint in its eyes from the bushes from very far back, and when it jumped out, I was prepared. Brake slightly; swerve around it. No problems, and this was back in the day before I drove a sports can that could actually handle.
OneNickel, with his cruise control on, blissfully unaware of which lane he is in or where that lane leads, would have slammed right into it.
I consider myself a very good driver and safe as well. I go 5 MPH over the limit on Highways and I keep the speed limit on side streets. I guess there is an occasional road where I am off. I am 34 and have never had an accident or a ticket. I have been in near misses but I believe my driving awareness kept me from getting hit at least 1 time.
Anyways, this past Saturday I was driving down a 2 lane highway going 50 MPH. This road has a lot of construction and there is no shoulder. The truck 2 cars in front of me had a small can fly out of his bed. It bounced off the jersey barrier and the car in front of me hit it and it flew up in the air. I basically had 2 options. Speed up and let it hit my windshield or slow down and run it over. I couldn't slam on my breaks because there was a car right behind me. I elected to slow up enough so it would go under my car. It ended up nailing my oil pan and put a small hole in it. Even though I was paying attention and had enough time to weigh all options I still hit it. As ONM said, sometimes it is just check mate, but being aware and driving safely will make those times much less often.
At first I laughed to my wife and told her that if she was driving it would have nailed our windshield. She chuckled back and said, "no, if I were driving I would have been going 70 and would have been no where near that truck."
Quote: RSYou're more likely to avoid an accident if you are aware of your surrounding (cars around you) and are "actively driving" (rather than cruise control + looking just in front of you). If you know where those cars are, you can (not always) avoid hitting something in front of you. Which is why it pisses me off when I'm driving on the free way, no traffic at all, you can go at whatever speed you like -- and there's some f***en moron, who's one lane over directly behind me [my blind spot]. I accelerate and try to get him out of my blind spot -- but sure enough, the guy insists on accelerating with me and staying in my blind spot. These are the people we have to share the road with. =\ You never want someone in your blind spot, but if they are there, it's better to be aware that someone COULD be there than having no idea they are there at all (until it's too late).
And no, I'm not talking about when there's traffic or a good amount of cars on the road. I mean when there are very few cars on the road, like the 2 lane road (the 15) between Las Vegas and Southern California.
speaking of this, it is one of my biggest annoyances when driving. I will be on the turnpike with my cruise set on 70. I will come up to a car that is going 65 so I switch lanes and pass them. A few moments later they will speed up and pass me then switch into the right lane again. They of course slow down because they are not using cruise control. I switch lanes to pass and as I am about to pass they speed up again and get ahead so I switch back into the right lane. Again, they slow down so I have to switch again. This happens over and over and over. It drives me bonkers.
Quote: FaceSpeaking personally, I think it has to do with degree of attention.
Usually when I drive, that's where my focus is. I don't need a map, my radio station never changes, I don't have the social life that results in frequents texts. When I'm driving, that's what I'm doing. As such, I make it a point to pass quickly and properly to be away from people, or to maintain a speed that allows faster drivers to escape my personal space. As a result, I'm Marco Solo on the road.
Only when something else goes on does that change. When my attention gets taken off the road, I usually find myself using the easiest thing to maintain speed and course - the car in front of me. I mentally attach to it because it's right there, as a result, I begin a "grouping", or join an already formed group.
From my experience, not many drivers actively engage in the driving aspect. I'd bet the grouping is in some part a result in not having the awareness required to make a pass, take a pass, or otherwise move yourself into your own space.
I call these packs "nodes". My goal when driving is to avoid them as these nodes are what leads to accidents. So, if I am behind a slow moving node, I will get into the left lane and weave my way to the front of the node and push people over who are in the fast lane and shouldn't be (and are responsible for creating the node in the first place). If i am in front of a node, I move over to the right, set my cruise control down so I spend a good deal of time relaxing before I inevitably drive into the next node. It's much more difficult to get into an accident when there are no other drivers around you.
This is why I abhor the slow passer in the left lane. The range of speeds available on a freeway should generally be from about 5 below (trucks) to about 10 over. If you are in the left lane in one of these notes passing a vehicle 1mph faster and there's a line of cars behind you trying to do 5-10 over, all you are doing is creating a node. Speed up and move over and create traffic flow. It's the safe thing to do.
And for craps sake, you don't realize it, but if you texting or talking on your cell phone, GET out of the left lane. You are not paying attention and your speed will dip because you aren't paying attention (unless you're cruise is on).
Quote: EvenBobI don't even know who I'm agreeing with or disagreeing
with here. I was a professional driver for years, as are
all cab drivers. And you learn to be aggressive at all times.
It's a fact that cab drivers have far more hours on the road
than other car drivers, and far fewer accidents. It's because
driving aggressively keeps you alert and attentive at all
times. I loved driving a cab, I was the master of the car
and the road at all times.
Agreed, for once. My wife drives me nuts, as she sets the cruise control at about 74 and sits in the left lane because she doesn't want to change lanes, doesn't check her mirrors, and generally daydreams while drivers pass her on the right. I always tell her to move over after passing.
Quote: 1BBCome on you guys. Face, Axiom, I have no doubt that you are good drivers. I am too but how can you be so confident to think that your skills will get you out of every scenario? I have never hit a deer but my wife once hit one with her Corvette. It wasn't pretty.
Drive down my road some night. I'll hide in the bushes and throw something in your path, let's say a plastic lawn chair. You'll hit it every time. Drive slow, drive fast, do whatever you want. No swerving, no glint in the eyes just the sound of the lawn chair bouncing off your car. That's how deer can be. They don't stand still while you swerve, they jump out without warning.
Sidebar if I may: Does anyone think those deer whistles actually work?
We will likely see you hiding in the bushes and slow down to see you. That was the point with the deer. Generally at night, if there are trees close to the side of the road, my eyes are peeled to the treeline looking for animals (and cops). I will slow down if I think an animal will pop out and have avoided many accidents because I have paid attention to what's around me and what's on the side of the road.
I came to that realization the other night when a squished a raccoon (I have no problem with that). Had I been driving slower I would have avoided that but my need to pick up my daughter on time overrode my usual level of caution.
But for example, if I am going side by side with a car, I will either slow down or speed up to get it out of my blind spot and to not create a jam, especially so when I sense that s/he might try to change lanes. I have no idea whether the idiot next to me will see me when he tries to move lanes, so I try not to allow the situation to happen and have avoided accidents that way.
Driving should be all about accident avoidance, not driving the speed limit with the cruise on.
Quote: 1BBCome on you guys. Face, Axiom, I have no doubt that you are good drivers. I am too but how can you be so confident to think that your skills will get you out of every scenario? I have never hit a deer but my wife once hit one with her Corvette. It wasn't pretty.
Of course not every scenario. It's a matter of probabilities.
If I leave my apartment, I might get run over by an out-of-control car veering onto the sidewalk. I might get struck by lightning. I might get mauled by a bear that is very, very lost. But I still leave my apartment when there is nothing good on TV.
The point is that if you are paying attention you are MUCH more likely to get out of these things ok, because there are usually early warning signs that you will notice if you are paying attention. Not always, but usually.
Quote: 1BBCome on you guys. Face, Axiom, I have no doubt that you are good drivers. I am too but how can you be so confident to think that your skills will get you out of every scenario?
Experience.
I hit a deer on my bike once, was doing 75. As anyone who's ridden sport bikes know, the lights are atrocious. There is no glow that illuminates the shoulders. It's a knife edge shine that shows you only your lane. The deer bolted out of the shadows. At the last minute I noticed the dotted line of the other lane disappear. That's it. That little thing that most no one would notice, I noticed because I was paying attention.
I still hit the deer. The last thing I saw before I closed my eyes was my beam of light placed right on it's rib cage. But because I saw that dash flicker, I had already braced and tucked hard right. As a result, I ended up punching it with my left hand on the handle bar, and my knee struck it since it was cocked out due to the hard turn.
I carried on. The deer carried on. Had I not been paying attention, I would've cut it in half right before I went sailing over the handle bars.
Was I fast enough / good enough / blessed enough to avoid the accident? No. But I sure did make it a whole lot less severe. I could go on and on and on with stories and examples of how paying attention saved life and limb. I can't say it's saved me from every accident. It certainly hasn't. But I can show how paying attention made it a simple story to tell, instead of a life changing, or life ending, wreck.
Re: deer whistles. Hogwash. Unless your car is as quiet as a coasting canoe, deer hear you coming. There is no pitch or frequency that scares them away. Any sound gets their attention, including the hundreds of noises currently coming from a normal car
It's really best if you can "center punch" them.
Quote: FaceExperience.
I hit a deer on my bike once, was doing 75. As anyone who's ridden sport bikes know, the lights are atrocious. There is no glow that illuminates the shoulders. It's a knife edge shine that shows you only your lane. The deer bolted out of the shadows. At the last minute I noticed the dotted line of the other lane disappear. That's it. That little thing that most no one would notice, I noticed because I was paying attention.
I still hit the deer. The last thing I saw before I closed my eyes was my beam of light placed right on it's rib cage. But because I saw that dash flicker, I had already braced and tucked hard right. As a result, I ended up punching it with my left hand on the handle bar, and my knee struck it since it was cocked out due to the hard turn.
I carried on. The deer carried on. Had I not been paying attention, I would've cut it in half right before I went sailing over the handle bars.
Was I fast enough / good enough / blessed enough to avoid the accident? No. But I sure did make it a whole lot less severe. I could go on and on and on with stories and examples of how paying attention saved life and limb. I can't say it's saved me from every accident. It certainly hasn't. But I can show how paying attention made it a simple story to tell, instead of a life changing, or life ending, wreck.
Re: deer whistles. Hogwash. Unless your car is as quiet as a coasting canoe, deer hear you coming. There is no pitch or frequency that scares them away. Any sound gets their attention, including the hundreds of noises currently coming from a normal car
Good story. We're in agreement. I was wondering if anyone was going to say they used the whistles but our members aren't that gullible.
Different states have different laws about keeping roadkill but many times the cop says to just take it. Does NY require a tag for a deer that was hit, Face?
Quote: 1BB
Different states have different laws about keeping roadkill but many times the cop says to just take it. Does NY require a tag for a deer that was hit, Face?
This is NY. Of course it does =p
My style is to use cruise so I can pay more attention to the road. I shut it off if I get too close to others. I drive as fast as I can legally get away with. The situations where it's unsafe to be weaving on a packed highway, I just won't concede to someone playing chicken behind me until traffic conditions become safe.
I'VE avoided most deer except one and nothing could be done. They are a nuisance, kill 100 people a year and a million accidents. The one I hit jumped in front less than 20 feet in front of me. Unavoidable because they walk up to the divider and walk back into traffic.
I can say once a freak thing happened over a one lane bridge due to construction, I would have had no choice but to hit it, but it jumped off the bridge. Presumably to its death being a 30 foot drop.
Quote: onenickelmiracleMost of us are probably all similar drivers and the arguments are just semantics.
My style is to use cruise so I can pay more attention to the road. I shut it off if I get too close to others. I drive as fast as I can legally get away with. The situations where it's unsafe to be weaving on a packed highway, I just won't concede to someone playing chicken behind me until traffic conditions become safe.
I'VE avoided most deer except one and nothing could be done. They are a nuisance, kill 100 people a year and a million accidents. The one I hit jumped in front less than 20 feet in front of me. Unavoidable because they walk up to the divider and walk back into traffic.
I can say once a freak thing happened over a one lane bridge due to construction, I would have had no choice but to hit it, but it jumped off the bridge. Presumably to its death being a 30 foot drop.
Let me see if I got this right? Your driving is so scary a dear had to jump off a bridge to get away from you? Damn, buddy. I can just see the dear now about half way across with its little paws in front of its eyes,,,praying. But you just wouldn't take it off cruise and would have run him over versus share the road. And now you are bragging about the dear kill. Thats terrible. How many drivers had to leave the road to survive your driving habits?
This is just ridiculous-All I am allowed to say while remaining polite. Look up deer accident statistics.Quote: petroglyphLet me see if I got this right? Your driving is so scary a dear had to jump off a bridge to get away from you? Damn, buddy. I can just see the dear now about half way across with its little paws in front of its eyes,,,praying. But you just wouldn't take it off cruise and would have run him over versus share the road. And now you are bragging about the dear kill. Thats terrible. How many drivers had to leave the road to survive your driving habits?
Quote: onenickelmiracleThis is just ridiculous-All I am allowed to say while remaining polite. Look up deer accident statistics.
Oh, come on I was just having a little fun. Deer are mostly agnostics.
Depending on the elevation of a drivers vehicle I have seen several moose/car accident scenes, that is at least part of my reason for always driving a pick-up truck.
Usually when a moose [ a big ruminoid of the deer family] gets hit they go right through the cab of cars, in the windshield and out the back window wiping out the passengers. When arriving at the scene the cabs are full of hair, glass and often blood. Sometimes the cars are still running. Seldom do the moose survive.
The largest one struck that I'm aware of was a 1900 lb cow moose, in the front out the back, killing everyone in the vehicle. Positional awareness is absolutely imperative to surviving northern driving. Driving isnt just getting from point A to B with the least amount of effort or lane change, its survival skill. Slow down at night and search the margins for eyes.
Moose seem to be a crazy suicidal bunch. It is almost like they wait behind a tree for a car to come and then they charge the road as fast as they can trying to get across. You woudn't believe the collision statistics with the railroad if you think the roads are dangerous. Bull moose charge locomotives head on.
Wonder where the saying "like a deer caught in the headlights" comes from?
http://www.snopes.com/photos/accident/moose.asp
edited for spelling
Quote: petroglyph
Wonder where the saying "like a dear caught in the headlights" comes from?
Here we call them 'deer'. You must really
like them if they're 'dear' to you..
Quote: EvenBobHere we call them 'deer'. You must really
like them if they're 'dear' to you..
They sure are when they come out the other side of the grinder.
I can't say as I ever ate a deer or [dear] I didn't like.
Burger, it's my favorite cut of meat. [butcher humor]
way too dry otherwise.
Quote: EvenBobOnly when it's mixed with ground beef, it's
way too dry otherwise.
It's all in how you take care of it. Try taking her out for dinner and drinks first.
...chicken-fried backstraps
Quote: EvenBobOnly when it's mixed with ground beef, it's
way too dry otherwise.
I can certainly say you got venison that was not prepared properly. It was either mishandled when it was first killed, or it was butchered when it was butchered (sorry, couldn't resist the pun)
The first deer I got was swiftly cared for, and taken to the butcher after one day, in low teens of temperature. But this butcher cut up all of my steaks by sawing through the bone while cutting the meat. It left all of my meat with a very caulky taste in my mouth. My wife tried a number of ways to cook that meat, but palatable was about the best she could do. That was the one and only time he cut up any of my deer. After that, we did our own cutting.
Deboned all the meat, before cutting it up, wrapping, and freezing it. When it is properly prepared, it does not need to be mixed with anything else. It is plenty good all by itself. It is very lean meat, hardly any grease. But it is not dry when handled properly.
Edit: These were northeastern PA whitetails. I have not had venison from other regions.
flavor from the fat content. Ground
pork, chicken, turkey, venison are very
low in fat and make dry, almost tasteless
burgers as a result.
There was an old joint here called Fat Burger
that went to low fat beef and almost went
out of business as a result. They switched
back to high fat just in time. The best cuts
of steak have the highest fat content also,
all the flavor is in the fat.
Quote: RaleighCrapsI can certainly say you got venison that was not prepared properly. It was either mishandled when it was first killed, or it was butchered when it was butchered (sorry, couldn't resist the pun)
Or just overcooked.
I like my burgers well-done so it has to be beef. But for a steak, which I eat rare, other red meats are great.
Bob is right; all the flavor comes from the fat. If you cook a lean meat too much, what little fat it has drains out and it gets dry.
