Casino lurkers on this site and others=instant destruction of any decent play mentioned

It's now happened for the third time in a month--I mentioned a good play on a website and less than 48 hours after my post went up, the play had been destroyed. I was willing to attribute this to coincidence at first, but I doubt that now.

The casinos are engaged in an active effort to destroy value. Not only that, but they have abandoned any lingering sense of ethics they may have had, as shown by, for example, the recent Tuscany free play reneging.

We should never patronize any casino ever again. It is like doing business with terrorists.

So do you blame the casinos or blame yourself? After it happened a second time why not keep a play to yourself or mention it via pm? Are you surprised that this happens? Not trying to be a d, just saying.

Quote: Eaglesnest

It's now happened for the third time in a month--I mentioned a good play on a website and less than 48 hours after my post went up, the play had been destroyed.

Loose lips sink ships. Duh..

Don't flatter yourself, nor should you be paranoid.

1. If you or any single person notices a "good play," - so might have thousands of others players,
2. And so might a casino employee at that casino house had seen it and fixed it - forget about the Internet.
3. Both casino employees and AP players use the Internet to review casino offerings for faults, with equal right to do so.

The feeling that casino employees or management have no rights to defend or secure their offerings via public information is both absurd and an unreasonable expectation. Especially if you're guilty of blabbing it. But leaky casino games or offerings quickly get patched quickly in any case.

Quote: Eaglesnest

It's now happened for the third time in a month--I mentioned a good play on a website and less than 48 hours after my post went up, the play had been destroyed. I was willing to attribute this to coincidence at first, but I doubt that now.

The casinos are engaged in an active effort to destroy value. Not only that, but they have abandoned any lingering sense of ethics they may have had, as shown by, for example, the recent Tuscany free play reneging.

We should never patronize any casino ever again. It is like doing business with terrorists.

Perhaps you should have watched that Video and taken my advice I tried to post for you to get that message across, you said, "I'm not going to watch that video, as it will consume an irreplaceable few minutes of my life."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Axel Quote: So you want to be an AP? I realize this is a trivial thing you are mentioning and meaningless at best. Moving forward please watch this NOW.... before its to late.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2lmFCqbJcI

At some point when you are more knowledgeable you can then make a good judgement and see if its something you don't think will be a big deal.


Eaglesnest Quote:"I have NO idea what you are talking about. I posted what I consider to be a good room deal for the benefit of anyone here who might be able to use it. This has about as much to do with AP play as it does with sex with ostriches in outer space. I'm not going to watch that video, as it will consume an irreplaceable few minutes of my life.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ororiginally in a post you were asking for a bit of help. I think u even PMed me, I didn't mind. after your EC post. I thought knowing the number one rule should be first.
You defended posting stuff and didn't take the advice (you probably still will defend it) . I gave up as you seemed to know everything.

The conversation can be seen here.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/general/19053-really-really-good-deal-at-the-el-cortez/

In case you still have not watched the video.

The first rule of Fight Club is: You do not talk about Fight Club. The second rule of Fight Club is: You do not talk about Fight Club

Quote: EvenBob

Loose lips sink ships. Duh..

One must have a real ship to sink. Imaginary ones can keep floating forever.

however i can see how details will only prove its imaginary.

Uh, except that conversation involved an irrelevant response to a posting about a routine hotel room rate offer at El Cortez which had absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with any kind of imaginary "AP play." It wasn't even an exceptionally good room rate, and if it was, it would remain completely irrelevant to the sort of thing that is the topic of this thread.

Quote: Eaglesnest

We should never patronize any casino ever again. It is like doing business with terrorists.

How about you should never post about any good deal again?

Quote: DrawingDead

Uh, except that conversation involved an irrelevant response to a posting about a routine hotel room rate offer at El Cortez which had absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with any kind of imaginary "AP play." It wasn't even an exceptionally good room rate, and if it was, it would remain completely irrelevant to the sort of thing that is the topic of this thread.

And that exact thinking got him in this exact situation, its a slippery slope, whats the harm. Read the entire tread and it explains more. Something may seem meaningless at first look. And the EC was one of them cases in the past. A harmless post about a crappy promotion lead to the outing of a better more lucrative hidden one.

either dont post it or change the details so it keeps it more hidden

I don't even comprehend why anyone would broadcast a play, even if they aren't playing it. Knowing about certain machines/promotions and keeping it from others is the way many of us make money. If you want to know anything I'm doing, we can definitely trade information. I don't give out anything for free.

The only people that know of what I'm doing are people who I trust to not burn out the play and we all take action.

Quote: Eaglesnest

It is like doing business with terrorists.

So if a buisness takes down a deal that people are taking advantage of it makes them a bad buisness or a terrorist?

Their goal is to make money if they realize a play or promotion or anything else is being milked by a lot of people and costing money of course they are going to change or end it.

It's possible they have some people that watch popular gaming forums. But it's also possible that they just observed the promotion or play and realized they are losing money or it is being taken advantage of and ended it.

I have always said this about the topic:

If you have a play that is +EV, don't tell anyone.
IMHO anyone that "broadcasts" a +EV play is doing a disservice to the community at large IN A FORUM, OR A CHAT-ROOM.
Keep all comunications 1-on-1 in person or by secure method.
NEVER use an open/unsecure means to disseminate such information.

IOW if you found a large nugget of gold in your backyard, who would you tell? No one, right?

Quote: DrawingDead

Uh, except that conversation involved an irrelevant response to a posting about a routine hotel room rate offer at El Cortez which had absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with any kind of imaginary "AP play." It wasn't even an exceptionally good room rate, and if it was, it would remain completely irrelevant to the sort of thing that is the topic of this thread.

Yes, Axel doesn't seem to understand the distinction. He also doesn't seem to understand that I may make posts from time to time that have nothing whatsoever to do with AP play. For what it's worth, the EC didn't destroy that offer after I (AND two other posters on other sites) noted how good a deal it was. By the way, I wasn't charged the resort fee, so that was indeed $110 for four nights, tax included, with $60 in food vouchers. At a net of $12.50 a night, it was more than just a routine good deal.

Quote: 98Clubs

I have always said this about the topic:

If you have a play that is +EV, don't tell anyone.
IMHO anyone that "broadcasts" a +EV play is doing a disservice to the community at large IN A FORUM, OR A CHAT-ROOM.
Keep all comunications 1-on-1 in person or by secure method.
NEVER use an open/unsecure means to disseminate such information.

IOW if you found a large nugget of gold in your backyard, who would you tell? No one, right?

And if there was no communication other than furtive, secret, one-on-one communication, there wouldn't be a "community" to do any disservice to--just a loosely affiliated gang of skulkers. Oh wait--that's the current situation!

I had thought at times that since casinos presumably want people to know about their promotions, that disseminating information about said promotions would be welcomed by them. I haven't heard of them trying to drone Scot Krause's house because he talks about all the "FREE" stuff available on his blog.

The nugget in the backyard is a poor analogy. It's more like some business downtown giving away a gram of gold with every purchase. In this case, I WOULD tell others, because I would make the logical assumption that doing so would be congruent with the goals of that business and they would therefore welcome it. Casinos, however, being run by insane people, craft promotions and then punish those who respond to those promotions.

Quote: djatc

I don't even comprehend why anyone would broadcast a play, even if they aren't playing it. Knowing about certain machines/promotions and keeping it from others is the way many of us make money. If you want to know anything I'm doing, we can definitely trade information. I don't give out anything for free.

The only people that know of what I'm doing are people who I trust to not burn out the play and we all take action.

The other way we make money is by taking advantage of shared information. Every current so-called "AP" I know tries to scurry about from casino to casino completely on his own and thereby somehow keep current on all that is on offer. It never works--Vegas is a big place, and there just aren't enough hours in the day. In any event, you would think that the casinos would realize that promotions vary in value according to who takes advantage of them. But because casinos are run by evil idiots, they won't take the bad (people who hit-and-run) with the good (people who come in for the free buffet or whatever and get torched for two grand at the crap table on the way out). It's like the grocery store that publishes coupons in Wednesday's paper. Some people will come in and buy ONLY what's on sale. Fretting and stressing about this--much less banning those people--would be stupid and pointless.

Quote: Eaglesnest

Yes, Axel doesn't seem to understand the distinction. He also doesn't seem to understand that I may make posts from time to time that have nothing whatsoever to do with AP play. For what it's worth, the EC didn't destroy that offer after I (AND two other posters on other sites) noted how good a deal it was. By the way, I wasn't charged the resort fee, so that was indeed $110 for four nights, tax included, with $60 in food vouchers. At a net of $12.50 a night, it was more than just a routine good deal.

I was giving you general advice, I pointed out in my post that the EC may not be of any real value. I assumed you were new to AP at least in Vegas. Posting current promos and offers is a slippery slope. You never know what may or may not be good value. One marginal thing may lead others to something better and they might kill it. You assumed it was a good idea, you had a flawed theory as to why it might be ok and then found out it was not.

Keep on keeping on, I doubt anything you post will affect me, I do mostly hidden things or find different ways to play more obvious things after it seems worthless.

Quote: Every Promotional Offer Ever

Management reserves the right to alter, withdraw or refuse service of this offer at any time without notice.

We expect every well to run dry eventually.

I would hope that by sharing the promo angle, my friends have a chance at filling their bucket before the well runs dry, instead of "Why didn't you tell me they were giving away free (desirable thing)?" a day after the promotion's scheduled completion.

One of the local places allows people to bring in their own travel mugs (security has been known to check that they're empty on the way in). You're darn right I go in and fill up my travel mug with cola if I'm passing by. That's like +$1.25 EV vs the convenience store down the way (unless I wanted Dr. Pepper - which they don't have).

I consider this different than sharing AP angles - the casino themselves advertises these promotional offers by mail, email, website, and on-premises signage.
If you want to know which machine/table/dealer/pit is a prime opportunity, speak quietly. I get that, too.

Quote: Eaglesnest

The other way we make money is by taking advantage of shared information. Every current so-called "AP" I know tries to scurry about from casino to casino completely on his own and thereby somehow keep current on all that is on offer. It never works--Vegas is a big place, and there just aren't enough hours in the day. In any event, you would think that the casinos would realize that promotions vary in value according to who takes advantage of them. But because casinos are run by evil idiots, they won't take the bad (people who hit-and-run) with the good (people who come in for the free buffet or whatever and get torched for two grand at the crap table on the way out). It's like the grocery store that publishes coupons in Wednesday's paper. Some people will come in and buy ONLY what's on sale. Fretting and stressing about this--much less banning those people--would be stupid and pointless.

Big difference is that I don't go blabbing it out on a public forum, only to people I trust. I know they will cut me in if they play, and promise that none of this information gets shared, and vice versa.

Last big thing I had was a 3-5% play off of $1 9/6 jacks, up to about $10k coin in a day(return was not tied into the royal like a progressive). I didn't have to cut in some partners because I was bankrolled and could afford the swings, but decided to do so anyway because I know in the future something will come up where they will do the same for me.

Quote: djatc

Last big thing I had was a 3-5% play off of $1 9/6 jacks, up to about $10k coin in a day.

Congrats and nice find. $300-$500 a day is a great find for one promotion.

Is that the one that has a progressive on the $1 and it ranges from $1-$5 denom on the machine you play? Just curious.

Quote: DRich

Congrats and nice find. $300-$500 a day is a great find for one promotion.

It was a clear case of something that only seemed marginal at first. Something seemingly publicly share-able. Had just one other person caught on, it would have cut the value in half.

Is this regarding a slot?

I am sure casinos monitor slot machine playbacks on a regular basis.

Quote: jwblue

Is this regarding a slot?

I am sure casinos monitor slot machine playbacks on a regular basis.

Not sure what you are asking or saying. I think you missed something. The play worked out fine. My point was, had any one found it, it would not have worked out well at all. This is the case in many promotions however, this particular one was something that was seemingly only slightly good, something most posters, APs or no,t might post about, however, I still felt it was bad to talk about.
It was a one man job only extra players cut it down significantly
Djatc did a kick ass job finding it, figuring it out and playing it. He did well especially since he didn't hit a royal and should have(none needed, you couldn't lose).

he is still reaping the rewards months later.