darkoz
darkoz
Joined: Dec 22, 2009
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April 14th, 2014 at 10:57:12 PM permalink
Quote: sodawater

It sounds to me like this whole episode has nothing to do with your being "banned" for legal AP and everything to do with some sort of automatic requirement to ask for ID when a large slot voucher is generated without play.

I wouldn't worry about your "disguise" -- if it were me, I would just go back the next day with my real ID and ask them to cash out the voucher. I am not a lawyer but my understanding is that when a casino wishes to throw you off its property, it has to give you a chance to leave before it can say you were trespassing. But I have no idea what the law might be in your particular area.

But if it were me, I'd just go with my real ID and ask to be paid, and explain that you were not money laundering. It's probably just a requirement that they ask for ID.



I think I will do this EXCEPT I will wait the 45 days since I can then take the ticket to the NYS lottery. They cannot trespass me on that property.
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
Tomspur
Tomspur
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April 14th, 2014 at 11:02:18 PM permalink
I think Soda is right and your approach seems prudent to me.

Good luck!
“There is something about the outside of a horse that is good for the inside of a man.” - Winston Churchill
michael99000
michael99000
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April 14th, 2014 at 11:39:54 PM permalink
If I were you I would've just gone here, very convenient

https://screen.yahoo.com/first-citywide-change-bank-1-000000088.html
darkoz
darkoz
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April 14th, 2014 at 11:47:22 PM permalink
I found these definitions below:

A bearer instrument refers to an instrument that is payable to anyone possessing the instrument and is negotiable by transfer alone. For example, shares and bonds are bearer instruments. Bearer instruments are distinct from normal registered instruments, because with respect to a bearer instrument no records are kept of about the one who owns the instrument. Whoever physically holds the bearer bond papers owns the property. Bearer instruments can be employed in certain jurisdictions to avoid transfer taxes, in spite of the fact that taxes may be charged when bearer instruments are issued. “When an instrument is payable both to bearer and order, the instrument states contradictory terms, but it is nonetheless a bearer instrument.”[ State v. Herrera, 130 N.M. 85 (N.M. Ct. App. 2000)].

Bearer instrument

A valuable document, which does not bear the name of its legal owner and may be redeemed by whoever is in possession of it. Bearer instruments are not registered to the holder, and can therefore be transferred by delivery.


From the NYS Lottery website as well as the back of my vouchers:
Please remember each ticket is a bearer instrument. Sign the back of your ticket for your protection

I think I have a good case that this is my money. The voucher is for cash and is a bearer instrument in my possession.
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
tongni
tongni
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April 15th, 2014 at 12:00:56 AM permalink
i just don't understand, why don't you have your buddy dress up in a similar outfit and cash it for you? how would they know it's not you and it's him instead?
odiousgambit
odiousgambit
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April 15th, 2014 at 3:24:34 AM permalink
Quote: sodawater

It sounds to me like this whole episode has nothing to do with your being "banned" for legal AP and everything to do with some sort of automatic requirement to ask for ID when a large slot voucher is generated without play.



Thanks for that post, I was having trouble understanding what had happened.
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!” She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
DJTeddyBear
DJTeddyBear
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April 15th, 2014 at 7:41:10 AM permalink
Quote: darkoz

My dilemma is I can't return with ID in my disguise and they stated no one but myself can claim the ticket.

If they didn't take your picture, how will they know if it is you who is cashing them in? If they really are bearer instruments, give them to a buddy.
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁 Note that the same could be said for Religion. I.E. Religion is nothing more than organized superstition. 🤗
Sonuvabish
Sonuvabish
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April 15th, 2014 at 8:36:07 AM permalink
Quote: darkoz

I got a problem. Would really like to PM rather than make it public.

Involves confiscated money--sixteen hundred bucks--not money won. It was my own money!



This is not legal advice:

Walk into the casino. Walk directly to security (or possibly call them from outside). Explain that you are banned from the casino, but have vouchers you would like to cash. Ask for an escort to the cage. If this works, you have effective consent to be on the property from someone with apparent authority to grant it. If there is unnecessary delay in obtaining your money, leave. However, they cannot detain for trespassing on your last visit. A misdemeanor must be committed in their presence to warrant detention; since trespassing is not a felony, their suspicions would be of no immediate legal concern. This would be a much smarter course of action than waiting 45 days, or suing them. In a suit, you may very likely fail. They followed standard procedure; not only were you banned, you are potentially (and negligently) allowing the tickets to expire. You could be faced with attacking the reasonableness of their policies or hoping they default. If they default, tell me...then I will randomly sue casinos without justification and get rich quick.

Alternatively, you can send in a confederate. You should not trust a minimum wage cashier to have a sniff. There is no crime in someone attempting to cash out the vouchers, or even in lying to the teller. Whether it's vouchers or some other form of instrument as has been mentioned, they are freely assignable. This money laundering issue is an internal casino mechanism of some sort, not a federal regulation that directly concerns you. in all likelihood, any name will do to go along with whatever report they are filing. It need not be yours, and the cashier probably does not fully realize this, or perhaps is attempting to fill her meaningless job with significance. I never try to fill my meaningless job with anything spuriously significant, but I notice a co-worker who does. I hate him.
Paigowdan
Paigowdan
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April 15th, 2014 at 8:44:56 AM permalink
You should scan a copy of the vouchers to your computer, along with notes or a log, in case the casino confiscates the vouchers.

Quote: Sonuvabish

This money laundering issue is an internal casino mechanism of some sort, not a federal regulation.


Yes it is a Federal money laundering regulation. Casinos would not set up any impeding business restrictions on themselves or customers without Uncle Sam telling them they have to - and they have to. Such things as CTR's, obtaining tax ID and withholding taxes where appropriate, and reporting money-laundering actions were mandated onto casinos by the government. Nobody watches the money as tightly as Big Brother.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
Sonuvabish
Sonuvabish
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April 15th, 2014 at 10:01:48 AM permalink
Quote: Paigowdan

You should scan a copy of the vouchers to your computer, along with notes or a log, in case the casino confiscates the vouchers.


Yes it is a Federal money laundering regulation. Casinos would not set up any impeding business restrictions on themselves or customers without Uncle Sam telling them they have to - and they have to. Such things as CTR's, obtaining tax ID and withholding taxes where appropriate, and reporting money-laundering actions were mandated onto casinos by the government. Nobody watches the money as tightly as Big Brother.



You misquoted me. I did not end the sentence with the word regulation (nor even did that word come at a transition in thought), and you clearly quoted me as having a period after that word...at the very least, you must use an ellipses if you are going to properly make that quote. So I guess I must now clarify.

I have no idea if this is the result of a federal regulation or not. If you are so sure, I would appreciate a statutory or regulatory reference in lieu of the misquote. But it is an internal casino accounting mechanism of some sort, and a cumulative total of $1600 is of no direct concern to the player for any mandatory reporting requirement at the casino. A SAR could be filed, but those have nothing to do with the player following any particular procedure. If you meant to clarify any ambiguity that I may have lazily left in my post, then thank you for keeping me awake.

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