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6 votes (16.66%)
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7 votes (19.44%)
10 votes (27.77%)
3 votes (8.33%)
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2 votes (5.55%)
23 votes (63.88%)

36 members have voted

LarryS
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January 11th, 2014 at 11:17:10 PM permalink
Quote: beachbumbabs

Good grief, Larry! What a rant among your last 5 posts!

Mulling what I might say in response. I don't necessarily disagree with most of what you say, but maybe some of the cause-effect and cultural mores are misattributed, IMO. Can I take a raincheck?



sure

my "rants" were born out of the guy who claimed I was revising history. That women were always thought to be dullards who couldnt make a decision without a mans help.
That might have been the reasoning to not hire women or pay them less, or to keep them from having the vote.

But the woman's ability and "right" to say "no" to sexual advances outside of marriage has always been unquestioned in modern american society.

(even within marriage most would agree that women still have that right.....but some religious zealots may differ in opinion)
onenickelmiracle
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January 11th, 2014 at 11:33:34 PM permalink
Our country needs all the babies it can get. Either that or free robuts. It's not a bad thing entirely. Look what happens with all the single children who grow up without empathy and all the qualities which aren't quantified right- a world full of selfish jerks or all men like other countries.
I am a robot.
FleaStiff
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January 12th, 2014 at 2:02:01 PM permalink
Quote: LarryS

sure my "rants" were born out of the guy who claimed I was revising history. That women were always thought to be dullards who couldnt make a decision without a mans help.
That might have been the reasoning to not hire women or pay them less, or to keep them from having the vote.
But the woman's ability and "right" to say "no" to sexual advances outside of marriage has always been unquestioned in modern american society. (even within marriage most would agree that women still have that right.....but some religious zealots may differ in opinion)



Well, let us not say "revising history" as much as "being too vague as to a specific time and place in history". This sounds a bit better but also does have a definite significance in and of itself.

Let us consider the Edwardian Era. BIG difference between what was "proper" in the lower classes and the upper classes. Also a very BIG difference between what was "publicly proper" and what was obviously tolerated. Long parties at the manor house were opportunities for considerable bed hopping but marriage was still looked upon with great favor and respect. The bell that sent men out of the various ladies bedrooms was officially to announce that maids would be soon be entering with fresh bed linens. Ladies had signed cards outside their doors so that gentlemen in the night might avoid making mistakes. All this was openly tolerated in an age that place great virtue on public acceptance of the bonds of marriage.

Gentlemen were expected to "belly up to the bar" but females who even used the word "belly" were quite daring and would only do so if in a butcher shop or some other demanding situation.

Amongst the lower classes strict separation was mandated and usually enforced.

There was a great difference between official social values and actually practiced values. Even if a woman bore children by another man, she had to appear to have produced her husband's progeny.

In other circumstances we can use criminal charges as an indication of values, but often such charges were for extreme crimes and do not relate to the usual values of society. I've used before the example of public masturbation on the Sabbath in the vicinity of a house of worship. Also of course cannibalism. Prosecutors hate such charges, they bring such disrepute to the community. Yet, in the far north cannibalism was often accepted in extreme circumstances. Once however the RCMP came under criticism for mistakes made searching for one plane... and suddenly there was no more criticism because the RCMP let reporters know about the cannibalism which of course replaced criticism of the RCMP in the headlines. Values are always flexible when public institutions are involved.

For much of Anglo Saxon law the official view of scholars was that females were less able than men to exercise restraint. Whether its factually true is not relevant. It was the common wisdom.

When a wife became incapable of fulfilling her duties, the husband taking the oldest daughter was not always viewed as improper. The practice amongst Welsh coal miners was even brought to the USA mines in Pennsylvania and in Appalachia.

Look at some of those archive photos and see how many kids women had to bear in those days and its hard to believe that anyone really thought a wife could say no or ever should say no.

We have petitions in San Francisco to make pet owners Protectors... yet in the middle ages cats were often nailed to a pole.
I have a feeling that neither extreme is truly representative of either era.
beachbumbabs
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January 12th, 2014 at 2:22:17 PM permalink
In an agrarian culture, many kids was not just expected, it was necessary. The more kids, the fewer field hands needed. The infant mortality rate was atrocious, and continual pregnancies were the norm, as were marriages as soon as the woman was of childbearing age. The mortality rate during birthing was also sky-high for women, and the trauma on her body could sometimes make her infertile (ie useless) as well. A relatively large percentage of men were on their 2nd or 3rd marriage by the time they stopped having kids, previous wives having died while trying to give birth, with a significant age gap between them and younger wives, since birthing is easiest for young women to bear. However, women who could successfully produce children were much more likely to be able to bear subsequent births, even in their later years, better than women who didn't get pregnant until their 30's or later, so there were lots of families with a 20 or longer year age span between oldest and youngest. Polygamy also made sense because of the mortality rate, and the need to produce a large number of children who could work the family farm quickly, and be adults by the time the father was aged enough to be slowing down. Also, the average age of death was in the 40's well into the 19th century. Religion only codified these practices; there were practical economic bases for them. Times change.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
AxiomOfChoice
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January 12th, 2014 at 2:30:26 PM permalink
Note that the "average age of death" is an often-misunderstood statistic. The main thing dragging down that average was the high infant mortality rate. The averate lifespan for people who made it out of childhood was much higher.
EvenBob
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January 12th, 2014 at 2:49:06 PM permalink
Quote: beachbumbabs

In an agrarian culture, many kids was not just expected, it was necessary. The more kids, the fewer field hands needed. The infant mortality rate was atrocious,.



Here's a trick question I used to ask years
ago and not one person ever got it right.

What was the biggest killer by far of humans
up to about 1900? They would guess everything,
disease, old age, war, heart attacks. Of course
it was childbirth, it killed more babies and mothers
than anything else ever did. And there were few
heart attacks before the 20th century, people
were more active and ate no processed food,
which is loaded with sugar and fat. They also
slept a lot more. 90+% of the population lived
on farms and they were mostly stress free and
slept an average of 9.5 hours a night. Who does
any of that now.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
LarryS
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January 12th, 2014 at 5:47:00 PM permalink
Quote: FleaStiff

Well, let us not say "revising history" as much as "being too vague as to a specific time and place in history". This sounds a bit better but also does have a definite significance in and of itself.

Let us consider the Edwardian Era. BIG difference between what was "proper" in the lower classes and the upper classes. Also a very BIG difference between what was "publicly proper" and what was obviously tolerated. Long parties at the manor house were opportunities for considerable bed hopping but marriage was still looked upon with great favor and respect. The bell that sent men out of the various ladies bedrooms was officially to announce that maids would be soon be entering with fresh bed linens. Ladies had signed cards outside their doors so that gentlemen in the night might avoid making mistakes. All this was openly tolerated in an age that place great virtue on public acceptance of the bonds of marriage.

Gentlemen were expected to "belly up to the bar" but females who even used the word "belly" were quite daring and would only do so if in a butcher shop or some other demanding situation.

Amongst the lower classes strict separation was mandated and usually enforced.

There was a great difference between official social values and actually practiced values. Even if a woman bore children by another man, she had to appear to have produced her husband's progeny.

In other circumstances we can use criminal charges as an indication of values, but often such charges were for extreme crimes and do not relate to the usual values of society. I've used before the example of public masturbation on the Sabbath in the vicinity of a house of worship. Also of course cannibalism. Prosecutors hate such charges, they bring such disrepute to the community. Yet, in the far north cannibalism was often accepted in extreme circumstances. Once however the RCMP came under criticism for mistakes made searching for one plane... and suddenly there was no more criticism because the RCMP let reporters know about the cannibalism which of course replaced criticism of the RCMP in the headlines. Values are always flexible when public institutions are involved.

For much of Anglo Saxon law the official view of scholars was that females were less able than men to exercise restraint. Whether its factually true is not relevant. It was the common wisdom.

When a wife became incapable of fulfilling her duties, the husband taking the oldest daughter was not always viewed as improper. The practice amongst Welsh coal miners was even brought to the USA mines in Pennsylvania and in Appalachia.

Look at some of those archive photos and see how many kids women had to bear in those days and its hard to believe that anyone really thought a wife could say no or ever should say no.

We have petitions in San Francisco to make pet owners Protectors... yet in the middle ages cats were often nailed to a pole.
I have a feeling that neither extreme is truly representative of either era.




what does any of that have to do with women today agreeing to spread their legs for men that they dont even know the name of....and may never see again in their entire lives. In the days you speak of people were known, there were not millions of people for them to hide amongst.Its no longer mayberry where you are bound to run into someone in town eventually. In this world where we have millions of people living in afew square miles....its possible to have sex with someone who live 3 blocks from you,, and if you didnt know his name or know where he lives to look for him...you might not run into hm again for the rest of your life.

So n this particular society, I would think it would be kind of important for a 15 year old or a 30 year old for that matter..... to know the person before saying yes to accepting their penis in their vagina.

"Bimbo erruption" is a very apt term.

No matter how societies worked that had low density of population hundreds of years ago......our society had the idea that boys will try to sow their wild oats.....and ladies would say no util they were sure of some sort of stability in the relationship. And young men were taught that if a lady says "no" thrn they should respect that.

You can point to third world nation like india where rape is a way of life for women.....or talk about THE Edwardian era....... but they have nothing to do with Bimbos in the united states in record numbers spreading their legs for men theydont know...or dont know well enogh.

If you are posting from a time warp in the Edwardian era....or from areas of India where women are not valued.......you may be confused by my posts.

To make it clear...I am speaking about the role of women sexually in the modern era of american history. no the wild west in america, not the early years of agriculture before indistrialization.....no.....modern america.

The women on the "maury" type shows dont care about the term "belly up" or the women in the agriculture societies being used as breeders for field help....all they want to know is who the father of their child is. And they keep brining men to the show and keep being told that that man "is not the father'.

you know what term was not around in the Edwardian era or during the agricultural eras.....BABY DADDY...where a woman has 3 children with 3 different known or unknown men.....where society pays for the children....society pays for the children of the known or unknown baby daddys in higher costs of healthcare, in classroom catering to the lower level of educated student, crime, graffiti, lowering everyones quality of life.

the select women who spread their legs in the edwardian era for the rich.....were not producing children that were a massive drain on society/
rxwine
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January 12th, 2014 at 7:03:16 PM permalink
Quote:

Despite the warnings conveyed by reality shows such as "Teen Mom" and "Sixteen and Pregnant," teenagers today are far less likely than their parents were to have sex or get pregnant. In 2010 the percentage of teenage girls having sex was 27%, down from 37.2% in 1988, according to the latest data from the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Teen pregnancy rates have dropped 44% since peaking in 1991, reaching a record low in 2010. The numbers point to a future in which women are more in control of their sexual destinies than ever before, not less.



http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304724404577299391480959420
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onenickelmiracle
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January 12th, 2014 at 7:21:08 PM permalink
Larry, you can blame Suzanne Somers' Thigh Master for all this leg spreading the ladies do. How many times are you going to use this phrase this year? I'm betting 49 times but may have already lost.
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beachbumbabs
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January 12th, 2014 at 7:26:49 PM permalink
I think rxwine makes the same point I was headed for with that wsj quote; women are much LESS promiscuous now than they were in my teen years. I can't imagine where Maury Povich's producers keep finding these women, but among 300 million plus, I suppose they're out there. They are far from normal, or why would they even be considered interesting enough to put on tv?

I do not think they are a representative example of how things are. Not in the US, not among US blacks (since that came up earlier), and not among US women. I think tabloid journalism has dollars to earn and agendae to serve, and they have misrepresented the overall situation if you think the ongoing nonsense is at all indicative of the large majority of young women.

OTOH, these women are the least objectified of any in history. They see their bodies as their own to enjoy sexually or not, not as a prize for a man to earn through marriage. I think that's a healthy development for both sexes; sex should be a gift shared, not a bartered item to be withheld or granted in exchange for behavior, money, or power. Men need to catch up a bit on this type of thinking in order to be successful in partnering them happily.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
LarryS
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January 12th, 2014 at 7:27:00 PM permalink
Quote: onenickelmiracle

Larry, you can blame Suzanne Somers' Thigh Master for all this leg spreading the ladies do. How many times are you going to use this phrase this year? I'm betting 49 times but may have already lost.



I use that phrase to make poorly educated liberals feel uncomfortable
Wizard
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January 12th, 2014 at 7:57:00 PM permalink
Quote: beachbumbabs

I can't imagine where Maury Povich's producers keep finding these women, but among 300 million plus, I suppose they're out there.



Exactly. You can't assume Maury's show is a representative sample of all women.

If one were to observe women as seen through my life that person would conclude that:

99% of them won't talk to men unless paid.
0% have sex before marriage.
It takes three months of dating to get to first base and six months to second.

Of course, I'm not saying that is a representative sample either, but a very biased one that I see.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
LarryS
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January 12th, 2014 at 8:03:27 PM permalink
Quote: beachbumbabs

I think rxwine makes the same point I was headed for with that wsj quote; women are much LESS promiscuous now than they were in my teen years. I can't imagine where Maury Povich's producers keep finding these women, but among 300 million plus, I suppose they're out there. They are far from normal, or why would they even be considered interesting enough to put on tv?

I do not think they are a representative example of how things are. Not in the US, not among US blacks (since that came up earlier), and not among US women. I think tabloid journalism has dollars to earn and agendae to serve, and they have misrepresented the overall situation if you think the ongoing nonsense is at all indicative of the large majority of young women.

OTOH, these women are the least objectified of any in history. They see their bodies as their own to enjoy sexually or not, not as a prize for a man to earn through marriage. I think that's a healthy development for both sexes; sex should be a gift shared, not a bartered item to be withheld or granted in exchange for behavior, money, or power. Men need to catch up a bit on this type of thinking in order to be successful in partnering them happily.




http://www.hhs.gov/ash/oah/adolescent-health-topics/reproductive-health/teen-pregnancy/trends.html

i think the above is the study showing decrease in teen pregnancy. The study starts at 15. There is a flaw dont you think? are 13 and 14 year olds teens as well?

Anyway no one said that the rates were going up. Just that way too many women are burdening society by not saying no like they used to years ago.

The liberals feed them the line....you are totally equal to men..so go enjoy your bodies, and if it means getting pregnant..well then just burden society with the bills.

Men, in the past were smiled upon as the ones needing to "sow their wild oats" and it was the women who had to be the smart ones and recognize those men and say "no" . And men were taught"if a woman says no...well then thats it...respect it".

But now liberals and womans libers insist that there is absolutly no difference between men and women. If women want to "enjoy their bodies" like men its ok. Its ok for them to seek indescriminat sex just like men....except that one thing is not taken into account. Women are not equal in their anatomy. So now the people with the anatomy to bear children are told they can be the receptical of the "wild oats" without a second thought...without even know ing the name of the "sow-er"

So we get what we deserve

we get classrooms with children raised by teens who are lacking in home education leaving it all to the schools....therebye dumbing down the lessons the teachers can prepare...and penalzing the rest of the class that may want to go at a faster pace.

graffitti, crime, unemployment,.......but dont be concerned because our president came from single parent home.......so any of those teen parent babbies can be president....we have the false hope now
sodawater
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January 12th, 2014 at 8:03:53 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard


It takes three months of dating to get to first base and six months to second.



That seems slow to me. Plenty of women have sex on the first or second date. Have you tried "making a move"?
Wizard
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January 12th, 2014 at 8:04:59 PM permalink
Quote: sodawater

That seems slow to me. Plenty of women have sex on the first or second date. Have you tried "making a move"?



No. I'm afraid of rejection.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
sodawater
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January 12th, 2014 at 8:06:14 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

No. I'm afraid of rejection.



well i guess it's a risk/reward calculation just like everything else.
EvenBob
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January 12th, 2014 at 8:12:52 PM permalink
Quote: beachbumbabs

sex should be a gift shared, not a bartered item to be withheld or granted in exchange for behavior, money, or power.



That's such an odd concept, are there people
that really do that? I think it's an urban legend
you're trying to start. Every married woman I
know uses sex for punishment or reward.

Remember All Bundy and how Peg used having
sex with him as punishment? Poor Al..
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
EvenBob
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January 12th, 2014 at 8:16:55 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

No. I'm afraid of rejection.



You eventually learn not to be afraid of rejection,
it happens whether you're afraid or not. And
believe it or not, good looking guys get shot
down more than anybody else because they're
always out there hustling. Of course they get
laid a lot also for the same reason.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
LarryS
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January 12th, 2014 at 8:33:21 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Exactly. You can't assume Maury's show is a representative sample of all women.

If one were to observe women as seen through my life that person would conclude that:

99% of them won't talk to men unless paid.
0% have sex before marriage.
It takes three months of dating to get to first base and six months to second.

Of course, I'm not saying that is a representative sample either, but a very biased one that I see.



I can say that I dont like to go into inner city communities because of the crime rate. And you can say that the crime is not representative of all black people.
which would be true. But there is enough of a mninority bad people there to ruin the neighborhood. The majoprity of the people there want to live in peace....but a minority there ruins the community.

Same with bimbos. Not a majority of women....but certainly enough to make an impact on our society. Another example of how a minority of a larger group can greatly impact society.

certainly enough to fill the tv shows daily, certainly enough to tax our welfare system, certainly enough to negatively affect our educational system certainly enough to fill prisons(as unsupervised offspring ages).

representative of "every" woman? Nope.


in the 50's and 60's if a teen was on tv having given birth .....she was accompanied by her mother, and they would both be crying about the circumstance and how ashamed they were etc.

Now look at the maurey show(and there are other copycat shows)......people are not embarrassed to keep coming back to get another man tested till they find the baby daddy for their 2 year old. N o one is talking about the harship of having to work 2 jobs in order to pay for the babies needs. Oh yeah....thats because there are no financial consequences.

are these people a representative of all women? No....but there are enough of these women NOW to negatively affect the quality of life for all of us now and going foward.
Beethoven9th
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January 12th, 2014 at 8:38:48 PM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

believe it or not, good looking guys get shot
down more than anybody else because they're
always out there hustling.

+1

That's so true, guys like that (both good looking & ugly) just play the numbers game. I remember years ago, some buddies and I were at a bar one night, and this black guy was hitting on literally every woman in the place. We were laughing at how pathetic he was.

...BUT at the end of the night, he ended up leaving with an incredible looking brunette. Guess he got the last laugh.
Fighting BS one post at a time!
Buzzard
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January 12th, 2014 at 8:39:32 PM permalink
" negatively affect our educational system certainly enough to fill prisons "

There is a reason the highest illiteracy rate is found in our prison population. But damned if I know the solution.
Shed not for her the bitter tear Nor give the heart to vain regret Tis but the casket that lies here, The gem that filled it Sparkles yet
EvenBob
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January 12th, 2014 at 8:40:40 PM permalink
Quote: LarryS


in the 50's and 60's if a teen was on tv having given birth .....she was accompanied by her mother, and they would both be crying about the circumstance and how ashamed they were etc.
.



In 1958 we got a phone call during dinner that
my dads son from his first marriage had to get
married at 17 because he got his girlfriend
pregnant. You'd think somebody had died. My
dad couldn't finish dinner, he acted like life
as we knew it was over. That was the typical
reaction in those days, he never got over it
even though they're still married today
and have 30 grand children 55 years later.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
petroglyph
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January 12th, 2014 at 9:18:01 PM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

In 1958 we got a phone call during dinner that
my dads son from his first marriage had to get
married at 17 because he got his girlfriend
pregnant. You'd think somebody had died. My
dad couldn't finish dinner, he acted like life
as we knew it was over. That was the typical
reaction in those days, he never got over it
even though they're still married today
and have 30 grand children 55 years later.




This woman woke up one night and her husband wasn't beside her when she reached over for him. She thought she heard something so got up and heard a noise from down stairs. She goes down the stairs and see's a dim light coming from the basement and can hear her husband crying. She rushes down the stairs and asks honey what is wrong? Through his sniffles he asks her, "do you remember when I was 18 and you were seventeen and your dad caught us making love", and he told me if I didn't marry you I would have to go to jail for 20 years? The wife said, yes dear I remember, it hasn't been so bad has it?
The husband responds, I would have gotten out this Friday.
FleaStiff
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January 12th, 2014 at 10:25:57 PM permalink
>women are much LESS promiscuous now than they were in my teen years.
True. Emphasis is on career opportunities which are a reality and an encouraged attitude.
>I can't imagine where Maury Povich's producers keep finding these women,
Same place Cheaters finds them a few years later.

>OTOH, these women are the least objectified of any in history.
Probably quite true.
>They see their bodies as their own to enjoy sexually or not, not as a prize for a man to earn through marriage.
Man or woman to earn through marriage.
Nor do they see marriage as exclusively a White Suburban Shackling of a man and woman together and a woman to an SUV delivering kids to sporting events all afternoon long. Alternative lifestyles such as depicted in Girls, The Real L, PolyAmory, Sister Wives, etc. broaden horizons. Women see themselves as having an afternoon at the spa and being able to select from the various males they encounter without sounding a death knell to their marriage. Its not that HBO shows embrace the mainstream, but they embrace a sufficient percentage of it to make the show more than utter sociological fiction.

>I think that's a healthy development for both sexes; sex should be a gift shared,
>not a bartered item to be withheld or granted in exchange for behavior, money, or power.
> Men need to catch up a bit on this type of thinking in order to be successful in partnering them happily.
Yes, men do, but its hard for the bus boys and waiters to hear what the women are saying to each other during
their business networking lunches. Sure the women may talk about equal pay but the only men around to hear them are those waiters, busboys and bartenders or the valet parkers. Those men will later go home and watch TV shows created and produced by the women they served that day. Or the men will watch internet porn brought to them by the corporations created and run by the women who were at that lunch.
beachbumbabs
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January 12th, 2014 at 10:36:10 PM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

That's such an odd concept, are there people
that really do that? I think it's an urban legend
you're trying to start. Every married woman I
know uses sex for punishment or reward.

Remember All Bundy and how Peg used having
sex with him as punishment? Poor Al..



Odd to you, maybe, as a 67 year old curmudgeon. Not odd to 20 year old women. And the men those 20 year old women are choosing are in agreement with the idea of partnership, unless the kids were raised in an evangelical family and accept those values instead. That's where the girl before the present girl got off the bus with the 24 yo nephew; she wanted to marry him, and he her, but her family was not one with whom he could join. He went to meet them and ask for her hand, and it was over right then. A sizable subset of that generation, but still a minority.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
beachbumbabs
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January 12th, 2014 at 10:39:03 PM permalink
Quote: FleaStiff

Nor do they see marriage as exclusively a White Suburban Shackling of a man and woman together and a woman to an SUV delivering kids to sporting events all afternoon long. Alternative lifestyles such as depicted in Girls, The Real L, PolyAmory, Sister Wives, etc. broaden horizons. Women see themselves as having an afternoon at the spa and being able to select from the various males they encounter without sounding a death knell to their marriage. Its not that HBO shows embrace the mainstream, but they embrace a sufficient percentage of it to make the show more than utter sociological fiction.



Agreed. Didn't want to go there; it seemed too big a leap for LarryS in the discussion to get into alternate lifestyles, which is a small but growing minority.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
Buzzard
Buzzard
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January 12th, 2014 at 10:39:06 PM permalink
" she wanted to marry him, and he her, but her family was not one with whom he could join."

I am confused , was he marrying her or her family ? Seems your nephew was a little light in the ball's department.
Shed not for her the bitter tear Nor give the heart to vain regret Tis but the casket that lies here, The gem that filled it Sparkles yet
beachbumbabs
beachbumbabs
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January 12th, 2014 at 10:43:01 PM permalink
Quote: Buzzard

" she wanted to marry him, and he her, but her family was not one with whom he could join."

I am confused , was he marrying her or her family ? Seems your nephew was a little light in the ball's department.



Maybe so. But she was one person at University, where he met her, and completely another at home across the state, among her family. He felt deceived, had made it clear that he was not interested in heavy religious influence before things got to that point. She knew the score but hid it from him, hoping it wouldn't matter in the end. It did.

Buzz, you're Catholic raised in Baltimore and living in Denver. This was in the Ozarks. Same country, different worlds culture-wise. When his Grandfather died, (my dad), he was 9. He and the other kids were left with the paternal grandparents while my sister and her eldest flew down for the services. (Her husband was also terminally ill at the time and couldn't care for the children.) The grandparents took the kids to their Sunday church. The 7 year old sister was asked by a member of the church (at coffee) what religion her dead grandfather had been. "Episcopal" was the answer; I hear she managed to say it. The biddy said, "Oh, sorry, dear, your grandfather's burning in Hell." and turned away.

This is what you say to a 7 year old who has just lost her beloved grandfather and knows her daddy is dying? Yes, in the evangelical Ozarks, you do. My nephew didn't want any part of that.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
Buzzard
Buzzard
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January 12th, 2014 at 10:47:43 PM permalink
Glad you did not take my comment the wrong way. Has me wondering if maybe our divorce in the parallel universe was a mistake.

Damn, Sherman, where did you put the key to Mr. Peabody's WABAC machine ?
Shed not for her the bitter tear Nor give the heart to vain regret Tis but the casket that lies here, The gem that filled it Sparkles yet
onenickelmiracle
onenickelmiracle
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January 12th, 2014 at 11:23:35 PM permalink
Quote: LarryS

I use that phrase to make poorly educated liberals feel uncomfortable

You made me uncomfortable insinuating I'm a liberal, but educated me on what involuntary John Patrick rejects think.
I am a robot.
EvenBob
EvenBob
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January 13th, 2014 at 12:54:28 AM permalink
Quote: beachbumbabs

And the men those 20 year old women are choosing are in agreement with the idea of partnership,



No they're not. Have you ever been a 20 year
old man? Well, I have, and there's one thing
they want, and it's sex and lots of it. They'll
crawl, they'll beg, they'll become whipped to
to the core to get it. Partnership smartnership..
Nothing ever changes.

And my drivers license says I'm not 67. I think..
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
LarryS
LarryS
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January 13th, 2014 at 1:28:31 AM permalink
<<<Women see themselves as having an afternoon at the spa and being able to select from the various males they encounter without sounding a death knell to their marriage.>>>

thats hilarious..."spa women",...thats is definately the downfall of our society.

women who breed children and spend all day in the spa....thereby not having time to read to them growing up, help in their education, teach values, be a real parent to help keep them highly educated and out of trouble/prison. Those damn spa ladies.

This is why our cities are laden with graffitti and crime, why children drop out of schools,
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0923110.html

internationally we are 25th in math and 12th in reading for 15 year olds.....PRETTY GOOD...those "spa ladies" are raising well rounded children.

Well someone is producing these 15 year olds ...someone is breeding them....maybe its all on the "spa ladies"

Because children who are poor at math and reading.....who have moms that go to "spas" really have nothing to worry about in life. They can be poorly educated, be the victim of poor parenting or non exisitant parenting...and still not be a burden to society. Maybe they will get a job filing charts at their dads podiatry office.

But what about the children of non "spa moms"......children whose moms had no parenting skills, were warehoused at daycare, friends houses, and school, graduate just as underducated as the "spa moms" kids......they are not getting a job they dont know their dad so the podiatry office job is unavailable, they are on the street looking for something , acting out, getting attentiion , getting on welfare with a higher percentage of these male kids ending up in jail, and a higher percentage of the females also becoming teen moms....both sexes of children having a higherpercentage of dropping out of highschool.

If only our world were only populaed by the "spa ladies"

next to the "spa ladies" ..i think the other groups of women we need to worry about in society is

" the yearly european cruise ladies"
"the 3 carot diamond engagement ring ladies"
"the caviar tasting club ladies"
"the princess diana look-alike ladies"

we need to keep an eye on them because when they have children, its gonna be a real burden to society. One of the kids just might park their jag illegally in a handicapped space.
djatc
djatc
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January 13th, 2014 at 1:46:06 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

No. I'm afraid of rejection.



I'm more afraid of people finding out about my rejection. Problem is you have to get through a ton of rejection to get to the leg spreading.
"Man Babes" #AxelFabulous
P90
P90
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January 13th, 2014 at 2:51:39 AM permalink
Quote: LarryS

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0923110.html
internationally we are 25th in math and 12th in reading for 15 year olds.....PRETTY GOOD...


It IS pretty good for an empire, actually.

US doesn't have the luxury of just focusing on the well-being of its citizens like Hong Kong with its independent-but-dependent status or Finland's yet-another-small-country non-position. There is a tax on being an empire; for all the position's benefits, it focuses the public's attention outward, you elect your leaders based on their conquest plans, not their internal politics. There is a tax on being multicultural or multinational; your people don't share blood ties and national or in this case racial issues can be addressed or exploited, with the latter by far politically more effective. And, of course, there is a size tax, because you can't manage 100,000 schools across 4 races and 50 states as easily as 1,000 in one city-state.
Resist ANFO Boston PRISM Stormfront IRA Freedom CIA Obama
FleaStiff
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January 13th, 2014 at 2:52:00 AM permalink
Possible duplicate: Computer failure in the wee hours. Brain failure always.

Quote: beachbumbabs

Agreed. Didn't want to go there; it seemed too big a leap for LarryS in the discussion to get into alternate lifestyles, which is a small but growing minority.

LOL. Yes, indeed. It would be too great a leap for LarryS, but here again we have the dichotomy between that which is "preached" and that which is "practiced". I think there has been an explosion amongst those who are blatant about their alternative lifestyles.

We can all have views about what is proper...but I'm reminded of some of the footage about a tsunami hitting those Asian resorts. The American, Australian and European tourists stood there in awe-struck wonder filming and narrating the events. The locals ran for high ground.

It might be the same thing with alternative lifestyles. Groundswell or hype? Or a combination of the two. We study sociology in niches but then try to apply the knowledge gained to all aspects of everyone's life. And that is an act that ruins the careers of scholars but makes fortunes for the authors of Hollywood scripts and fan magazines.
FleaStiff
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January 13th, 2014 at 3:14:25 AM permalink
Quote: beachbumbabs

This is what you say to a 7 year old who has just lost her beloved grandfather and knows her daddy is dying? Yes, in the evangelical Ozarks, you do. My nephew didn't want any part of that.

I don't blame him, I wouldn't either. You don't tell a seven year old girl there is no Santa Claus, her mother does. You don't tell a seven year old girl her dearly departed is burning in hell, not even a lynch mob would do that.

I know one man who grew up with most of his relatives about equally divided between ordained ministers and lay ministers. His relatives prayed for him constantly because he drank beer. Growing up in such a religious atmosphere, its lucky he rarely went beyond beer!

I actually met a man who went to a Bible College where there was a six inches of separation rule between members of the opposite sex, enforced even when he was crossing the campus with his fiancee. They felt the Bible prevented him from holding hands with her.

Ofcourse it makes little difference what extremes we dredge up what matters is "the average" but then there is always that belief that the Moral Majority is neither.
odiousgambit
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January 13th, 2014 at 5:18:25 AM permalink
Quote: FleaStiff

one man who grew up with most of his relatives about equally divided between ordained ministers and lay ministers. His relatives prayed for him constantly because he drank beer. Growing up in such a religious atmosphere, its lucky he rarely went beyond beer!



Certain lines [certain protestants] kicked out a version against alcohol. This is one area in which I would make a good catholic, however it must be noted not all protestant churches go down this road. There is confirmation for them with the problems alcohol causes, yet it is nonetheless scripturally a bad fit, what with the main attraction being a drinker Himself. Amongst the rank and file the conflict is often hilarious, such as those who claim it was grape juice they drank in this age of no capability of preserving any fruit juice.
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!”   She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
FleaStiff
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January 13th, 2014 at 5:47:38 AM permalink
>..."spa women",...thats is definately the downfall of our society.
No the downfall of our society is those who say they can not be selfish spa women who focus on their own pleasures and occasionally on the pleasures bestowed upon them my men who are not their husbands.

>This is why our children drop out of schools,
Children drop out of schools because the teachers push them out so as the schools pass standardized tests and teachers get salary enhancements.capped space.

LarryS
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January 13th, 2014 at 9:49:07 AM permalink
Quote: FleaStiff

>..."spa women",...thats is definately the downfall of our society.
No the downfall of our society is those who say they can not be selfish spa women who focus on their own pleasures and occasionally on the pleasures bestowed upon them my men who are not their husbands.

>This is why our children drop out of schools,
Children drop out of schools because the teachers push them out so as the schools pass standardized tests and teachers get salary enhancements.capped space.



teachers were never very highly paid...so our educations system cant be blamed on that.
imagine a class of 40 kids, 5 of them come from a 15 year old mother who spread her legs for an unknown baby daddy, and who entertains men because she loves tto "enjoy her body". No education occured in the home, so the school is ecpected to provide ALL the education.
Mixed in with 35 other children that were read to, taught numbers and alphabet, colors, at home.The kids were taught manners and respect. And the teachers now has to teach to the lowest common denominator of tthe class. Holding other back. Making others bored with school at an early age. So now there are 2 groups that dont want to be there.

I saw this first hand in high school. In thar 70's in the name of racial fairness, a young boy was allowed into my physics calss without proper prerequsite math classes. The parents insisted he be placed in the class and threatened to raise a big legal issue if he wasnt allowed even though he never passed an algebra class.
Well he had good intentions and wanted to pass. And in wanting to pass he asked alot of questions. Alot of simple basic questions asking the teacher to go over what he said again, or explain the algebraeic equation solution. Over and over his hand went up and stopped the class. And the teacher patiently would always take the time to go over the answer. Soon the teacher anticipating there willbe questions started teaching more basically, and deliberately, and slowly...so that everyone could follow withoout a question being asked. Teachers have to teach to the level of the least intellegent person in the class(unless they can get the person put into a special ed class0. And if there are multiple people in the class with lower capabilities...its even more true.

The children of the "spa moms" can survuve this...can go to private school, or get private tutoring. But in general these kids get poor education and the ones too frustrated to stay because its over their head, or its too boring and not challenging, or because they have a criminal mind and just want to disrupt the class till they are suspended.....and society has to dela with them as they leave the schools with or withoyut a diploma.

handing the teachers a salaring increase does not eliminate the children in the class who have parents that dont lift a finger to help them at home with educcation, preschool or with homework when they start attending school.
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