Keyser
Keyser
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December 24th, 2013 at 6:07:31 PM permalink
Like the old Griffin book and other services that are now offered. I believe that there's a need for a dealer/casino employee register that keeps careful track of these people. The reasoning is that the longer people work for a casino, the more likely they are to suffer the predatory mindset, arrogance and cynicism that tends to go hand in hand with such jobs. If you visit some of the casino employee forums, you can witness the affliction. (Please note, I'm not saying everyone that works in a casino is bad.)

While many of these people are fine, upstanding citizens, the casino mentality tends to become ingrained into them. It often has a dark, persistent, poisoning affect on their personality, moral fiber, and customer service skills. Many employers could benefit from having access to the former casino employee registry. This would enable them to find out if a prospective employee was attempting to hide former employment in a casino. The registry would also contain information like, how long they were employed, games that they dealt, there habits, known immediately family and associates, general personality and temperament, as well as a complete description of their appearance, weight, and known aliases. Such a registry would help employers avoid unsavory people - steering clear of the ones that likely no longer possess customer service skills because of the previous work, and help them determine if an employee will require intense focus group retraining because of their previous employment.

It's important to note, that not everyone that has worked in a casino suffers the same effects, however a registry would still enable prospective employers outside of the casino industry to make more informed decisions when hiring people. I believe that some would be wiling to pay a fee for the registry service.

Your thoughts?



-Keyser
EvenBob
EvenBob
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December 24th, 2013 at 6:10:39 PM permalink
It's blacklisting, which is illegal and discriminatory.
Not that it wouldn't be nice..
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
Keyser
Keyser
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December 24th, 2013 at 6:13:59 PM permalink
No, it would just enable a prospective employer to make a more informed decision. The employer could carefully review the information contained within the private registry and determine whether or not a former casino employee could be salvaged via intense focus group training or whether the damage to the moral fiber was likely beyond repair, prohibiting work outside of the casino industry.
EvenBob
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December 24th, 2013 at 6:19:17 PM permalink
Quote: Keyser

No, it would just enable a prospective employer to make a more informed decision. .



Yeah, it's called blacklisting. You can't do that
anymore, that's why they passed anti discrimination
laws. Ah, the good old days..

Blacklist:

"A list of persons that have incurred disapproval or suspicion."
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
superrick
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December 24th, 2013 at 7:08:29 PM permalink
Keyser

We all know that there are some casinos employees that leave a lot to be desired, but tracking them would serve no useful purpose, except to keep their employees on the fence, so to speak. A marginal employee wouldn't be able to find work else were, and one bad review could keep a good employe from changing jobs. The only thing they could have done wrong was, their boss didn't like them.

It sounds like your to much in love with your job in surveillance, where everybody is suspected of doing wrong, just like every US citizen now days with all the phone calls that our great government thinks they need to know what everybody is doing. I'll put up with the bad dealers, damn there is a lot of them, but that is not my problem. It's the casinos and they way they treat their employees.

I see some dealers that never should be in the casino industry, but when we the customers complain about them it falls on death ears. So learn to live with it too. If you what to change how things are done in your industry, make changes within, learn to listen to your customers.
Quote: Keyser


While many of these people are fine, upstanding citizens, the casino mentality tends to become ingrained into them. It often has a dark, persistent, poisoning affect on their personality, moral fiber, and customer service skills. Many employers could benefit from having access to the former casino employee registry.


I sometimes wonder if posters don't read what they post, you wrote, that your industry changes, their employees. It poisons them, that in your own words, and yet when the players write about the bad service we get , your be one of the first to tell us it's the players fault.

What you want is big brother to watch everybody and that is just plain wrong, if you want better employees, learn to treat them with respect, and pay them decent wages, where they don't have to work three jobs, to make ends meet! I've had dealers tell me that I'm betting more with one bet then they make all day. Resentment runs deep, I treat all dealers with respect, until they think it's there job to make you lose your money trying to climb the corporate ladder, so they can make a few more bucks!
Quote: Keyser


Like the old Griffin book and other services that are now offered. I believe that there's a need for a dealer/casino employee register that keeps careful track of these people. The reasoning is that the longer people work for a casino, the more likely they are to suffer the predatory mindset, arrogance and cynicism that tends to go hand in hand with such jobs.


Finally Keyser, it sounds like you may be suffering from the same infliction as your fellow workers are, you don't trust anybody!

By the way have a Merry Christmas, maybe my post will let you see the light, and why your way of thinking is just plain wrong!

...
Note, all my post start with this is just my opinion...! You do good brada ..! superrick Winning comes from knowledge and skill when your betting and not reading fiction http://procraps4u2.myfanforum.org/index.php ...
EvenBob
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December 24th, 2013 at 7:14:58 PM permalink
Quote: superrick


It sounds like your to much in love with your job in surveillance,
.



Keyser has been accused of many things,
being in surveillance isn't one of them. Being
watched by surveillance, that's his hobby,
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
Ibeatyouraces
Ibeatyouraces
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December 24th, 2013 at 7:15:01 PM permalink
deleted
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
superrick
superrick
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December 24th, 2013 at 7:20:51 PM permalink
Quote: Ibewatyouraces


I don't think Keyser is a casino employee.


Well if that is true, I apologize, but somewhere along, I was lead to believe that he work in casino surveillance, my bad!
Note, all my post start with this is just my opinion...! You do good brada ..! superrick Winning comes from knowledge and skill when your betting and not reading fiction http://procraps4u2.myfanforum.org/index.php ...
Ibeatyouraces
Ibeatyouraces
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December 24th, 2013 at 7:27:32 PM permalink
deleted
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
ontariodealer
ontariodealer
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December 24th, 2013 at 7:34:38 PM permalink
it would be interesting to track everywhere I'be been since starting in 1974.
get second you pig
EvenBob
EvenBob
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December 24th, 2013 at 7:34:45 PM permalink
Quote: Ibeatyouraces

I might be wrong, but I think he's a player.



LOL! Yeah, he's a player all right. He mentioned
Griffin because he's IN Griffin.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
Paigowdan
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December 24th, 2013 at 7:43:02 PM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

LOL! Yeah, he's a player all right. He mentioned
Griffin because he's IN Griffin.


Ach, that explains it. He wants an equivalent black book for the casino workers and execs.

First of all, casino work is legit experience, so people will just have it on their resumes.

Secondly, it might help job candidates, kind of like having honorable military service.

Third, a lot of people would be in both, as many ex-AP's are casino workers and consultants, much in the way that many defense lawyers had prosecutorial experience.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
Ibeatyouraces
Ibeatyouraces
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December 24th, 2013 at 7:58:26 PM permalink
deleted
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
Paigowdan
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December 24th, 2013 at 8:45:26 PM permalink
Quote: Ibeatyouraces

And vice versa.


Sure. I've seen floormen (playing in unrelated properties from their regular jobs) try to run a table, trying to get back money they had blown (often at gambling). Many have been fired trying this.

Going rogue can go in either direction. All POV.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
onenickelmiracle
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December 24th, 2013 at 8:50:11 PM permalink
I Don't agree with the premise but would think one useful target group in theory would be former valets due to a strong correlation to be more likely to be thieves.
On casino employees depending on position, being highly morally flexible would be an asset in many fields.

You'll never be able to accomplish it though considering Facebook could compile these things with information obtained for free or at a profit.
I am a robot.
Paigowdan
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December 24th, 2013 at 8:55:19 PM permalink
Quote: onenickelmiracle

I Don't agree with the premise but would think one useful target group in theory would be former valets due to a strong correlation to be more likely to be thieves.
On casino employees depending on position, being highly morally flexible would be an asset in many fields.


That would also advantage AP's. So, that may be a good thing here, too. Looks like a win-win situation for some lines of work.

Frequently, the reasons for termination come into knowledge. Many dealers/floormen and other casino workers are fired for working as internal agents against their companies, sometimes with players, doing their own AP. ;)
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
onenickelmiracle
onenickelmiracle
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December 24th, 2013 at 9:13:28 PM permalink
Quote: Paigowdan

That would also advantage AP's. So, that may be a good thing here, too. Looks like a win-win situation for some lines of work.

Frequently, the reasons for termination come into knowledge. Many dealers/floormen and other casino workers are fired for working as internal agents against their companies, sometimes with players, doing their own AP. ;)

Truthfully an AP really could be a casinos most valuable employee or consultant even if it has nothing to do with the reason for being inside a casino. Employees tend to be near sighted only focus on their reason being there but someone able to have the freedom to observe, will see and hear things nobody paid ever will. They don't even have to sell out to be the MVP.
I am a robot.
AxelWolf
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December 24th, 2013 at 9:51:32 PM permalink
Quote: superrick

I sometimes wonder if posters don't read what they post, you wrote, that your industry changes, their employees. It poisons them, that in your own words, and yet when the players write about the bad service we get , your be one of the first to tell us it's the players fault.

I sometimes wonder if members don't read what they see :)
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
Paigowdan
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December 24th, 2013 at 10:16:20 PM permalink
Quote: onenickelmiracle

Truthfully an AP really could be a casinos most valuable employee or consultant even if it has nothing to do with the reason for being inside a casino. Employees tend to be near sighted only focus on their reason being there but someone able to have the freedom to observe, will see and hear things nobody paid ever will. They don't even have to sell out to be the MVP.


yes, many AP's became casino industry white hats (or black hats). The list is long.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
Paigowdan
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December 24th, 2013 at 10:30:03 PM permalink
Quote: superrick

I sometimes wonder if posters don't read what they post, you wrote, that your industry changes their employees.


Sure casino work can change people, and does. Ask any veteran crap dealer or cocktail waitress what he/she thinks of the human condition in general. It will contrast to that of a book editor.

Dealers and floormen see the general public, plus AP players, shot-takers, casino cheats, mixed in with some classy civilians who are there to play cards after dinner and a show. The whole gamut is exposed. It can be an ugly picture. And some will argue that they view is not poisoned, but brought into reality with the way that some, many, people behave with booze in their system and scared money on the line, or someone is trying to AP the casino for its cash. Or just behave in general.

Quote: supperick

It poisons them, that in your own words, and yet when the players write about the bad service we get , your be one of the first to tell us it's the players fault.


Sure, it affects people, not just in the "general public" sense, but dealers and floormen deal with gamblers, drunks, cheaters, steamers, shot-takers, spring breakers, stiffs, - a whole assortment of unpleasant people who think they deserve Kingly service for being less than gracious guests. A lot of this is seen by casino workers, and the opinion is that there are relative few saints among the casino population in comparison to a lot of clowns. It's just how some people feel. Also said is that if people could see themselves on surveillance footage of how they may have acted with a few too many in their system while steaming money they couldn't afford or didn't wish to lose, they'd be amazed. People are often viewed by how they treat others, it's human nature.

Some players are great. Many of my current friends were players I met dealing at casinos I worked at, with fewer dealers and floormen in that mix. But these people were civilian gamblers out for an occasional night: High School principals, music score writers, insurance executives, etc. And some AP players were real cool.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
Keyser
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December 27th, 2013 at 3:50:53 PM permalink
Casino employees can suffer damage to their moral fiber because of the nature of the job. In particular sadistic tendencies can develop in some employees because of the predatory behavior that is firmly set in place, and often encouraged by casino management. Consequently, they can become undesirable for certain jobs or all together unemployable after leaving casino employment.

For example, would you want such a sadist working as a nurse in your doctor's office or at your dentist? Would you want them watching your kids in a daycare? What if there "dark passenger" surfaces?

When viewing the dealer's forums, I was shocked at how pervasive it has become. It's probably no secret that many former casino employees have trouble finding work outside of gaming.


-Keyser
EvenBob
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December 27th, 2013 at 8:21:47 PM permalink
Just tonight I saw a dealer take a winning
bet by accident and the player went ballistic.
The dealer put it right back but the player
called him a thief and was going on and on
and on about it and the dealer just had to
stand there and take it. I had to break my
rule and chime in that he was holding up the
game and dealers make mistakes, live with
it. I couldn't be a dealer for one shift, I'd
cold cock somebody.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
superrick
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December 27th, 2013 at 8:32:15 PM permalink
Quote: Keyser


Casino employees can suffer damage to their moral fiber because of the nature of the job. In particular sadistic tendencies can develop in some employees because of the predatory behavior that is firmly set in place, and often encouraged by casino management. Consequently, they can become undesirable for certain jobs or all together unemployable after leaving casino employment.



I only deal with craps dealers, there are still a few very good ones, that are old school. They do their job very professionally, they treat their players with respect, even if the player is a total jerk. Then you have the new ones that could care less about their job, they are only there to pick-up a pay check.

One of the worst things the casinos did was tip sharing. Now days the bad dealers are making money off the good ones backs. I sometimes wonder why I should even give tips to the dealers, when you do it get split so many ways that the good dealers you had on the table get maybe 5 cent on the dollar if they are lucky.

Players service is a thing of the past, unless your a high rollers, and depending on what casino your in , I've even seen them getting treated like they were just garbage! On a few occasions, I've been told by a dealer that knows how I play and that I will take care of them, that in one bet that I make, it's more then they make for their eight hours of work. You can see why some of these dealers resent players, but with that said I'm not the one that told them to take a job were they don't mean a thing.

Lets face facts, working in any casino isn't the best job in the world, but some of the dealers on the strip make really good money for what they have to know!

One of the problems in a lot of casinos is when the table they are dealing on starts to dump, they get blamed for it! I've seen a box person tell her dealers that they didn't know how to deal. The dealers on the table all had been dealing for years, everything they did was wrong in her eyes.

The dealers all know that they are stuck in a dead in job, that they have no marketable skill that they can take else were and find work. Nevada has the worst school system in the country. The school funding comes from the casinos, that has the lowest tax rate in the country. They don't want smart people, if they can keep them dumb that have a vast employee pool to chose from.

If they are not working on the strip, and they are working in the local casinos, most are working two to three jobs to make end meet. I've seen really good dealers get fired, only because they were working two jobs, and the casino found out about it.
Quote: Keyser


When viewing the dealer's forums, I was shocked at how pervasive it has become. It's probably no secret that many former casino employees have trouble finding work outside of gaming.



I tell everybody to just go a read a dealers forum, to see what the dealers really think about you, it's a real eye opener for those that think that the dealers are their best buddies. Years ago, the dealers were happy to see you winning, now days they are going to catch hell if that is happening. I only know of one casino in Vegas that the house, is still run like the old days, the suits all know that if you win today they are going to get it back the next day, if they don't run you off. They have dealers that appreciate every bet you make for them.

Basically the casinos are their own worst enemies, the pencil pushers, have made it that way, they now think they are supposed to win 100% of the time. When the are losing they think their employes are the reason the are losing, or the player is cheating.


...
Note, all my post start with this is just my opinion...! You do good brada ..! superrick Winning comes from knowledge and skill when your betting and not reading fiction http://procraps4u2.myfanforum.org/index.php ...
beachbumbabs
beachbumbabs
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December 27th, 2013 at 10:59:03 PM permalink
It takes a thief to catch a thief...

30 years ago, I worked for Citibank for a year. I was in Special Collections, Bankrupt and Deceased, trying to get blood from rocks. It was a part of Collections III. Collections I were the nice folks: "Did you know your payment was not received? I'd be happy to help you take care of that." Collections II was the mean guys: "If you don't pay us immediately, we'll (whatever)...@!" Collections III was the really interesting folks. They hired the biggest cheats and deadbeats they could find. One woman had been declared legally dead in 4 different states. Another guy had 14 different aliases, and had had Citi credit cards for all of them. One day, I was going through the inactive/dead files (makework for downtimes - very low priority because they were considered hopeless) and found my supervisor in there. Showed him the judgement against him, and he said, 'Oh, hey, I'll take care of that'. Never saw THAT piece of paper again.

Those folks knew all the dodges, between them. Long before the internet, they were amazing skip tracers, phone actors prying information out of relatives and friends, 2 clues and a whiff and they had someone.

Seems to me Citi had the right idea. AP's should make the best Surveillance guys, if they can be turned. Casinos, if they're serious about killing AP, should pay the good ones on a whole other pay scale, bring 'em in and clean up their places, including clever dealers or pit persons. Or stop worrying about it. Not much effective to be done in between. JMHO.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
EvenBob
EvenBob
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December 27th, 2013 at 11:10:30 PM permalink
Quote: beachbumbabs



30 years ago, I worked for Citibank for a year. I was in Special Collections, Bankrupt and Deceased, trying to get blood from rocks..



For 3 months in the summer of 68, I worked for a
collection agency. No air conditioning, just a bunch
of people on phones. We were paid a % of what
we collected. It's the lowest of lowlife jobs, talking
to pro deadbeats all day. The process server guy
was a hoot. 40's, porky, half bald, pants tucked
into his cowboy boots, wrinkled Hawaiian shirt with
the first three buttons missing, straw cowboy hat, fat
unlit cigar always in the side of his mouth. He
would regale us every day about his morning
exploits serving deadbeats papers. He loved his
job, he was a schadenfreude junkie, he lived
on other peoples misery. I think I had a man crush
on him..
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
Keyser
Keyser
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December 28th, 2013 at 1:13:02 PM permalink
It's probably no surprise that the biggest cheats within the casino are frequently the dealers. There have been countless incidents where a dealer, pit, or floor manager has been caught in some kind of cheating/skimming scheme in order to steal from the casino.

I can't imagine hiring a former dealer to work at Citibank, or for that matter in banking in general.

The thread reminds me of the movie "Croupier".
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