Picking the right places for VP

Quick intro: Former online poker player who quit before BF. Found video poker to be interesting and hit the casinos. Problem is I live in WA so there's no class III machines.... found this out the hard way after hitting 3 RFs so I can't complain.

Anyway I'm looking at VP2 and seeing that Spirit Mountain in OR is the closest place for advantage play, but I'm seeing that OR has a VLT like system based on some research. Is it worth driving over there to make it my "home"? I can't see myself putting in money bad from the VLT games.

Also, I'm planning on my first trip to Vegas! I have never been, and am looking for 90% VP playing and 10% 1-2 NL. The +ev machines seem to be excluded from promotions, so where should I be playing at most to maximize my returns? Basically I'm looking at playing at the Palms to get the $1000 loss deal, and probably will be staying at a Station casino hotel and putting most of my money in there. I'll also be getting a rental car so I can pretty much go anywhere.

As to Washington and Oregon... I would say "save your money for Vegas" and get the real thing instead of an illusion that enriches some Indian tribe and the Oregon lottery system. Why waste your time and why waste your money?

As to Vegas. There seems to be zillions of VP sites that rate return. You want current information on machines that are not "hogged" all day and are not excluded from earning points etc. Just remember, you have to know how to play that version of VP, so that should be the first step. Which do you like the most and know the strategy for.... not which are at the top of the charts but may have either disappeared by the time you get there or are statistically attractive but unfamiliar to you.

Palms? Is that loss promo still going on? I know Palms and SouthPoint had a reputation for lots of great VP machines and then it became lots of merely good VP machines.

The weird thing is VP2 shows a full pay JoB at the Oregon casino.... and then I read elsewhere they are VLTs. It's a shame Washington is such a crappy state for online poker (banned), video poker (class II machines), and max bet spread limit in the poker rooms.

My VP choices are DW, JoB, and DDB in that order. I practised DW so I would like to play that, but it seems to me that 9/6 JoB is the best in terms of highest returns under 100%. I don't like the swings of DDB so DW or JoB would be my game. I feel I can get the most out of my bankroll investment by playing 25c since I'll be there for a week.

VP at both Oregon tribal machines and Oregon VLTs are RNG-driven games. The state lottery terminals have nonstandard paytables compared to Vegas due to some payout restrictions, but they're still locally-determined.

Tribal machine games in Washington fall under Appendix X and are centrally-determined. That makes proper VP impossible.

I've played 9/6 JoB at both Spirit Mountain and Chinook Winds. The game is no different than in NV.

So they are VLT's, but not unplayable because of the returns (which I'm going off of VP2free). Are there enough promos and double points days to make the trip worthwhile?

Quote: djatc

So they are VLT's, but not unplayable because of the returns (which I'm going off of VP2free). Are there enough promos and double points days to make the trip worthwhile?

Just to clarify this a bit more. Oregon has VLTs run by the state lottery in bars, etc., but unlike Washington, the cards are still dealt randomly like Nevada and many other states. But in these local establishments, the poker tables are set so low that the return is ~90-92%. The tribal casinos also offer truly random video poker with reasonable paytables such as the 9/6 Jacks or Better at Spirit Mountain with a progressive jackpot for quarters.

Oregon Lottery's "Jacks or Better" pays as follows w/a max $2 bet:
Royal 300 ($600 max win allowed any video lottery game; does not apply to tribal casinos which pay 800 for 1, obv)
SF 135
Quads 30
FH 10
Flush 7
Straight 5
Trips 3
Two Pair 1
Jacks or Better 1

The bolded line really screws the return over and with optimal strategy returns 91.97%. And with the inflated flush/straight payouts, strategy is more difficult than 9/6 JoB, imo.

I can't really speak about the comps available at Spirit Mountain; I just see the data on vpFree like you do.

I would still recommend going to Vegas because FPDW is readily available as well as many live poker rooms. Also the Palms slot rebate is a good idea if you plan on returning to Vegas within 6 months, and a second time within a year.
http://www.palms.com/gaming/las-vegas-club-palms/

But the "full pay banks" (20 machines that offer FPDW, 10/7 DB, and 10/6 DDB) are excluded from the promo. According to VPFree, machines near the hotel front desk that offer 10/6 DDB and NSUD are only excluded from point multipliers, so they should still be valid for the promo. You will probably want to double check that though.

just go to Reno...plenty of fullpay video poker and better comps than Vegas....

Quote:

But it's RENO.

Any state that has class III machines use a RNG. Wether they are called VLT or slots is a matter of semantics. Maryland and I think a few other states call their slots and video poker machines VLT's but they are RNG driven and thus are the real thing.

Quote: hook3670

Any state that has class III machines use a RNG. Wether they are called VLT or slots is a matter of semantics. Maryland and I think a few other states call their slots and video poker machines VLT's but they are RNG driven and thus are the real thing.

Yes, the matter of confusion is that some states that call their machines VLTs are NOT Class III gaming. New York is a huge example of this. Unfortunately, you have to dig up state laws for whatever state you go to to guarantee RNG-driven video poker.

So in NY neither the racinos or Indian Casinos have Class III machines? I know that the place in the city has electronic craps and roulette. How can someone find out which state has which type of machine?

Quote: hook3670

So in NY neither the racinos or Indian Casinos have Class III machines? I know that the place in the city has electronic craps and roulette. How can someone find out which state has which type of machine?

Ugh, I spoke too soon. Some of the Indian casinos have class III gaming. Some do not. New York racinos do not have Class III video poker either.

http://www.americancasinoguide.com/slot-machine-payback-statistics.html
http://www.albanylaw.edu/media/user/glc/vlt_video_poker.pdf

If they have electronic craps/roulette, they should have class III video poker probably. Seneca Niagara has 99.95% Pickem Poker for example. I used to play that game in Missouri before they took it away. :(

http://www.vpfree2.com/casinos/by-region/east.html

Hey tring I see some 2+2ers are on here as well :)

My hatred of VLT is because of my ignorance for WA VP, but if it's going to return Vegas like odds then I will be glad to make Oregon my "home".

I was looking into Reno as a destination but I wanted to do the Vegas thing my first trip, but if the benefits are better I'll end up going there in the future. With that note, does anyone know which hotels offer military discounts of some sort?

Thanks for answering my questions. I'm totally new to casinos, and want to maximize my EV as much as possible.