Revel Facing Bankruptcy?

Quote: Bhappy

I was wrong. They made only $20 million.

And that puts them...last?

Quote: rdw4potus

And that puts them...last?

No 7th or 8th out of 12.

Quote: Bhappy

No 7th or 8th out of 12.

Looks like 8th, ahead of GN, Atlantic Club, Resorts, and Trump Plaza.

Quote: rdw4potus

Looks like 8th, ahead of GN, Atlantic Club, Resorts, and Trump Plaza.

That is better than I expected. Of course, they are going into slow season, and slow season in AC will be EXTREMELY slow for Revel, as the party crowd doesn't like freezing in the middle of the winter on the ocean.

I foresee in the long run they will wind up about 10th, behind GN and Atlantic Club and ahead of Resorts and Trump Plaza. Call me crazy, but I think Atlantic Club is one of the few casinos in AC (outside Borgata and Tropicana) that has figured out how to appeal to their niche market. I used to think of the place as a complete dump (and it still is) but low minimums and the right mix of games for that customer makes it a very attractive casino. Now if they would just lower their room rates...

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It seems that they are comping very heavily. The promo credits for last month was about 44% (6 million). I am assuming most of it is free slot plays. Their slot handle was about 13 million. That is highest in AC as the the table below would show. (all numbers are % of slot handle).

Revel 44.2
AC 32.5
T Plaza 23.8
Taj 22.0
Resort 21.6
Tropicana 21.0
GN 20.8
ShowBoat 19.7
Bally 18.2
Borgata 17.7
Caesar 17.1
Harrah 15.5

Quote: sodawater

That's a crazy pessimistic estimate for Revel. There's still plenty of party crowd to go around in the fall and winter in Jersey. Bachelorette parties happen every single weekend, and if you're a group of women in your 20s or 30s planning a bachelorette party in AC you have exactly three options: Borgata, Harrahs, or Revel.

Perhaps it is... but let's face the truth. Most new casinos in their first few months of operation will generate ridiculously high numbers, placing it in the top 3-4 (or top 25%) of casinos in the market. After the honeymoon is over, it stabilizes and becomes more in line with what long-term projections would be.

Revel OPENED to be in the bottom half of the AC market. THEIR projections would have had them somewhere in the top 4, with Borgata, Harrah's, Caesars and Trump Taj. The casino size is one of the larger ones in the market, so there's no excuse there. They have a ton of room inventory, and they are near other casinos (unlike Tropicana or Atlantic Club, and to a degree the Marina properties).

If 7th or 8th is the highest they can place in the honeymoon phase, it's hard to believe they will climb any higher. The effort is there, I guess, to get players to come back, but when your service is piss-poor (as it was when I visited) and your prices exorbitant, you're not likely to get the hard core gambler to come back when there are better options in town.

All you have to do is read any forum where players go and the overall view is negative about Revel.

Quote: Tiltpoul

If 7th or 8th is the highest they can place in the honeymoon phase, it's hard to believe they will climb any higher. The effort is there, I guess, to get players to come back, but when your service is piss-poor (as it was when I visited) and your prices exorbitant, you're not likely to get the hard core gambler to come back when there are better options in town.

To be fair, they have had a massive improvement in Slot Drop, (increasing from $80M to $145M in 4 months. They had as much slot revenue from slots in August as they normally make in both slots and table games.

Gaming Revenue - Slot Drop
$20,024,404 - $145,575,568 Aug
$13,107,287 - $123,168,382 Jul
$14,934,052 -$104,293,658 June
$13,930,808 -$80,190,371 May
$13,469,258 -$98,508,545 April
$00,162,982 -$ 1,030,567 March (few days)

Quote: Bhappy

So the coming Monday, August revenue figures will be released. What are your predictions? I think Revel will make about 22-23 million from gambling.

Your guess was higher than the actual $20M, but I am curious how you knew they revenue would have a big jump?

Buzz gets a +1 here. A lot of State money did not find its way back to AC.
I'm not sure about taxation structure, could AC level a tax on the drop or Gross Rev?
What the state didn't provide the City could?

Quote: pacomartin

Your guess was higher than the actual $20M, but I am curious how you knew they revenue would have a big jump?

Well, I didn't but based on their profits on each gambling segment, I made a guess.

1. BJ: I think they are not doing that bad here. I believe they are 4th or so in BJ revenues - higher than Borgata. It will continue to do better. BJ players are bit more sophisticated, educated, affluent, and non-smokers. The Apple crowd. Revel's ambiance, non-smoking environment would appeal to them (BTW I am strictly a slot player. Anything besides pushing button is too complicated for me - too much brain).

2. Poker players. Cheapest of all the gamblers. Most poker rooms are non-smoking so non-smoking does not make much difference. No casinos make any money on poker. Even at borgata poker make about 3% of their revenues. Anyway, as I said they are the cheapest gamblers. Many think they are big spenders if they tip $1 to cocktail waitresses. They love free rooms, free drinks, free massages, but all love Bad Beats. I think Revel pretty soon will or should close the poker room.

3. Other table game players, here the things are not as clear. The crowd is good, but not as good as BJ players. Non-smoking may appeal to them, but it is not high on the list.

4. Slot Players - they are free room/free food/free slot play/free parking - everything free lovers. They equate everything in terms of number of extra spin button they could push. Many love non-smoking environment, but maintaining tier status is most important to them. Also, non-smoking slot players are less generous with their wallets.

Based on this forum, poker forum, and slot forums I thought that they were making some progress. Initially, they gave away rooms/money/food, but had no clue how to keep them in their casino for longer time - they just assumed they would love their place so much that they would just play there. Many took advantage of the offers, but didn't spend enough.

Now it seems that they have become bit selective in room offers, they make them play for food. Also, it seems that they have added few less expensive food options. So slowly, it seems non tiered, but still higher end slot players are migrating to Revel. In summary, I think they are improving in some areas. They should do more to retain the BJ players, add some more cheaper food options (e.g. all you can eat MickeyD buffets) for slot players, ditch poker, and gamble on other table games players.

Quote: Bhappy

Well, I didn't but based on their profits on each gambling segment, I made a guess.

1. BJ: I think they are not doing that bad here. I believe they are 4th or so in BJ revenues - higher than Borgata. It will continue to do better. BJ players are bit more sophisticated, educated, affluent, and non-smokers. The Apple crowd. Revel's ambiance, non-smoking environment would appeal to them (BTW I am strictly a slot player. Anything besides pushing button is too complicated for me - too much brain).

2. Poker players. Cheapest of all the gamblers. Most poker rooms are non-smoking so non-smoking does not make much difference. No casinos make any money on poker. Even at borgata poker make about 3% of their revenues. Anyway, as I said they are the cheapest gamblers. Many think they are big spenders if they tip $1 to cocktail waitresses. They love free rooms, free drinks, free massages, but all love Bad Beats. I think Revel pretty soon will or should close the poker room.

3. Other table game players, here the things are not as clear. The crowd is good, but not as good as BJ players. Non-smoking may appeal to them, but it is not high on the list.

4. Slot Players - they are free room/free food/free slot play/free parking - everything free lovers. They equate everything in terms of number of extra spin button they could push. Many love non-smoking environment, but maintaining tier status is most important to them. Also, non-smoking slot players are less generous with their wallets.

Based on this forum, poker forum, and slot forums I thought that they were making some progress. Initially, they gave away rooms/money/food, but had no clue how to keep them in their casino for longer time - they just assumed they would love their place so much that they would just play there. Many took advantage of the offers, but didn't spend enough.

Now it seems that they have become bit selective in room offers, they make them play for food. Also, it seems that they have added few less expensive food options. So slowly, it seems non tiered, but still higher end slot players are migrating to Revel. In summary, I think they are improving in some areas. They should do more to retain the BJ players, add some more cheaper food options (e.g. all you can eat MickeyD buffets) for slot players, ditch poker, and gamble on other table games players.

It'll be interesting to see what happens to Revel after the first of the year. I've played there a bit lately, because I've made Total Rewards Diamond and I'm not getting to 7 Stars so it really doesn't matter where i play. I've been so unimpressed with the staff at Revel that I'll never return. BUT, I also think that there are a lot of people like me who will return to the Caesar's owned properties once it's time to start earning next year's points.

Quote: rdw4potus

It'll be interesting to see what happens to Revel after the first of the year. I've played there a bit lately, because I've made Total Rewards Diamond and I'm not getting to 7 Stars so it really doesn't matter where i play. I've been so unimpressed with the staff at Revel that I'll never return. BUT, I also think that there are a lot of people like me who will return to the Caesar's owned properties once it's time to start earning next year's points.

I've heard people say this about the staff. I've played there a modest amount, and have had nothing but a good experience. The dealers and pit staff have been very friendly, and helpful. But all I've had experience with is the table games people. No hotel or restaurant experience(though I just got my first comp offer there so that might change). Just curious which staff members have been unimpressive to you.

Quote: vendman1

I've heard people say this about the staff. I've played there a modest amount, and have had nothing but a good experience. The dealers and pit staff have been very friendly, and helpful. But all I've had experience with is the table games people. No hotel or restaurant experience(though I just got my first comp offer there so that might change). Just curious which staff members have been unimpressive to you.

I haven't been impressed with the dealers at Revel. They're friendly (well, for New Jersey:-) ) at other high-end AC casinos. They're cold and impersonal at Revel. But, it's the floor supervisors that will keep me from returning. I've played at Revel for a total of about 12 hours over 8 trips. It's taken a total of about 6 hours for them to bother to pick up, scan, and return my players card. One time, the floor made me stand around and wait AFTER THE END OF MY PLAYING SESSION to get my card back. Then she told me I needed to be more patient and she was busy. I'd played for 90 minutes, and she was watching TV when I asked for my card.

Quote: rdw4potus

I haven't been impressed with the dealers at Revel. They're friendly (well, for New Jersey:-) ) at other high-end AC casinos. They're cold and impersonal at Revel. But, it's the floor supervisors that will keep me from returning. I've played at Revel for a total of about 12 hours over 8 trips. It's taken a total of about 6 hours for them to bother to pick up, scan, and return my players card. One time, the floor made me stand around and wait AFTER THE END OF MY PLAYING SESSION to get my card back. Then she told me I needed to be more patient and she was busy. I'd played for 90 minutes, and she was watching TV when I asked for my card.

You are exaggerating.

Revel would never pick up CET tier players. CET is the most effective comp machine. Their comp drug is hard to beat. They are stingy with rewards, but are very generous with free rooms.

Quote: Bhappy

You are exaggerating.

Revel would never pick up CET tier players. CET is the most effective comp machine. Their comp drug is hard to beat. They are stingy with rewards, but are very generous with free rooms.

Sadly I am not exaggerating. Though, the statement is not completely fair to Revel since almost 2 hours of the total 6 hours that it took to scan my card came in one of the 8 trips. So that leaves 7 trips, with about 4 hours needed to pick up, scan, and return my card.

I'm confused. Borgata is a better casino, CET properties are out because their comp program is effective. Tropicana and Atlantic Club have niches that don't overlap with Revel's target market. Who IS Revel trying to get to gamble in their property? There's nobody left.

Quote: rdw4potus

It's taken a total of about 6 hours for them to bother to pick up, scan, and return my players card.

Always put a $5 chip on top of it, that'll get
their attention, I guarantee it.

Quote: rdw4potus

I'm confused. Borgata is a better casino, CET properties are out because their comp program is effective. Tropicana and Atlantic Club have niches that don't overlap with Revel's target market. Who IS Revel trying to get to gamble in their property? There's nobody left.

CET or Borgata rooms although free are dumps. Revel (sadly) is going after or trying to position itself as 'Destination of Uncommon Recreation' in a dump that is AC...and sadly gamblers don't fit that mold either.

CET gamblers would not mind if the beds had bed bugs - as long as it was free all over the country.

Quote: Bhappy

You are exaggerating.

No, he's not. I had a very similar experience happen to me. They said their computers were down and if I wanted to wait around he'd be sure to get me rated. I was playing PGP, at least $25 on the hand and $5 on the bonus for about 20 minutes and he didn't even WALK OVER! If he wanted to tell me that while I was playing, I would have been okay with that, especially when the dealer kept shouting for him to come over.

Revel wants CET customers, so to say they don't is a huge overstatement. EVERYBODY wants CET customers, since their network is so widespread. Unfortunately, they are hard to get, so perhaps Revel doesn't want to make the effort to keep them... but to say they don't want them is false.

Quote: Bhappy

CET or Borgata rooms although free are dumps. Revel (sadly) is going after or trying to position itself as 'Destination of Uncommon Recreation' in a dump that is AC...and sadly gamblers don't fit that mold either.

CET gamblers would not mind if the beds had bed bugs - as long as it was free all over the country.

Borgata rooms are very nice, never heard anyone complain about them. Also priced very reasonably or comped for a lower dollar player. Who needs to spend 200-300 dollars per night or more at Revel?

Ok now that you guys mention it. It has taken the floor person on duty a while to scan my card sometimes. I agree 100% that they haven't done enough to woo CET or Borgata customers. Why jeopordize your tier status to play at another property, that has no benefits outside AC (and only limited benefits in AC). Despite many faults of the CET empire they are wide spread, which is a huge advantage.

Quote: Tiltpoul

Revel wants CET customers, so to say they don't is a huge overstatement. EVERYBODY wants CET customers, since their network is so widespread. Unfortunately, they are hard to get, so perhaps Revel doesn't want to make the effort to keep them... but to say they don't want them is false.

I never said they don't want CET players.

All i said was," Revel would never pick up CET tier players. CET is the most effective comp machine. Their comp drug is hard to beat. They are stingy with rewards, but are very generous with free rooms."

Again, the most effective weapon CET has is the nationwide dumpy free rooms, and their several promotions where gamblers chase CET properties all over country to get something.

Quote: vendman1

Ok now that you guys mention it. It has taken the floor person on duty a while to scan my card sometimes. I agree 100% that they haven't done enough to woo CET or Borgata customers. Why jeopordize your tier status to play at another property, that has no benefits outside AC (and only limited benefits in AC). Despite many faults of the CET empire they are wide spread, which is a huge advantage.

That I agree. They built a Palace in a ghetto, and assumed that people would be so impressed that they would jeopardize their tier status. The chatter is that many are getting pissed by Borgata system.

Quote: bw

Borgata rooms Also priced very reasonably or comped for a lower dollar player. Who needs to spend 200-300 dollars per night or more at Revel?

That really puzzles me. Revel marketing has basically abandoned 'Recreational Gamblers' with their high prices. But they do seem to have sold out Saturdays for the month of September.

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Quote: Bhappy

Again, the most effective weapon CET has is the nationwide dumpy free rooms, and their several promotions where gamblers chase CET properties all over country to get something.

How many CET properties have you stayed at? I think I've stayed at all of them (edit: except Cherokee. It's always sold out) I wouldn't call more than a handful "dumpy." (North KC, Joliet, Biloxi, Imperial Palace, Flamingo) Harrah's AC and Caesars AC are awfully nice, and they're only a few blocks from Revel. Horseshoe Cleveland uses the Ritz Carlton as it's hotel. Want to claim the Ritz is dumpy? Caesars and Paris in LV are world class resorts. Caesars Windsor is far above average, with jaw-dropping views of Detroit. New Orleans is 4 stars and downtown.

Quote: Bhappy

That really puzzles me. Revel marketing has basically abandoned 'Recreational Gamblers' with their high prices. But they do seem to have sold out Saturdays for the month of September.

Caesars is also sold out on saturdays. Even showboat is $180/night on saturdays through september.

Quote: rdw4potus

How many CET properties have you stayed at? I think I've stayed at all of them (edit: except Cherokee. It's always sold out) I wouldn't call more than a handful "dumpy." (North KC, Joliet, Biloxi, Imperial Palace, Flamingo) Harrah's AC and Caesars AC are awfully nice, and they're only a few blocks from Revel. Horseshoe Cleveland uses the Ritz Carlton as it's hotel. Want to claim the Ritz is dumpy? Caesars and Paris in LV are world class resorts. Caesars Windsor is far above average, with jaw-dropping views of Detroit. New Orleans is 4 stars and downtown.

Ballys AC has its share of pretty dumpy rooms, as of about a year ago when I last stayed there.

Quote: bw

Ballys AC has its share of pretty dumpy rooms, as of about a year ago when I last stayed there.

Bally's is a tough one. The Bally's tower is mostly above average (about like a Hyatt or Marriott), but the Claridge tower is older and less nice. And there's no way to guarantee ahead of time which tower you'll be in.

I would rank the CET properties in AC: Harrah's (location notwithstanding), Caesars, Bally's tower, Showboat, Claridge Tower.

If location were a factor, I'd put Caesar's above Harrahs and I'd put both Ballys towers above Showboat.

Quote: bw

Borgata rooms are very nice, never heard anyone complain about them. Also priced very reasonably or comped for a lower dollar player. Who needs to spend 200-300 dollars per night or more at Revel?

Yeah, I was gonna say. The Classic rooms have all been renovated within the last year (Borgata opened in '03, was removated in '05, '07, and '11). The Aria suites are fantastic. The Water Club rooms (opened in '08) are great. There is nothing dumpy about The Borgata, at all.

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Quote: rdw4potus

How many CET properties have you stayed at? .

I have stayed at Caesar's LV (room & suite), both were dumpy, stinky carpets, drapes, Old fashioned TV, thin towels, Harrah's LV, Reno, and Lake Tahoe, Harrah's NO (they were nice about five years ago), When they were in Lake Charles LA, and Showboat. But I have not stayed at all properties.

Quote: sodawater

I actually like the renovated classic rooms a lot better than the club rooms at the water club. for one, the tv is bigger and newer. you also get a free fridge and instead of a ridiculous minibar you have reasonably priced vending machines on every floor.

I think Water Club rooms get renovated in the even numbered years. I know '09 was skipped (probably because of the recession) on the Borgata tower side. Borgata TVs were all changed over in '11. We stayed there in the spring; are the sets 42" or 46"? Water Club are 42", I think. We'll be there next week, 2 rooms in WC and one in Borgata, I'll compare. No fridge, bummer, yeah.

Quote: Mosca

I think Water Club rooms get renovated in the even numbered years. I know '09 was skipped (probably because of the recession) on the Borgata tower side. Borgata TVs were all changed over in '11. We stayed there in the spring; are the sets 42" or 46"? Water Club are 42", I think. We'll be there next week, 2 rooms in WC and one in Borgata, I'll compare. No fridge, bummer, yeah.

I've never stayed in the Water Club. Are the minibars really priced over-market? I've noticed that a lot of casino hotels that have minibars in some-but-not-all rooms that the minibars are priced at the same level as the on-site vending machines.

Quote: rdw4potus

I've never stayed in the Water Club. Are the minibars really priced over-market? I've noticed that a lot of casino hotels that have minibars in some-but-not-all rooms that the minibars are priced at the same level as the on-site vending machines.

I don't know, I've never partaken. Never, anywhere. Minibars are off limits, on principle.

Quote: rdw4potus

How many CET properties have you stayed at? I think I've stayed at all of them (edit: except Cherokee. It's always sold out) I wouldn't call more than a handful "dumpy." (North KC, Joliet, Biloxi, Imperial Palace, Flamingo) Harrah's AC and Caesars AC are awfully nice, and they're only a few blocks from Revel. Horseshoe Cleveland uses the Ritz Carlton as it's hotel. Want to claim the Ritz is dumpy? Caesars and Paris in LV are world class resorts. Caesars Windsor is far above average, with jaw-dropping views of Detroit. New Orleans is 4 stars and downtown.

I'm with you on this one, rdw, though I disagree about North KC and Joliet. Joliet is just an aged property, but the rooms are pretty comfortable. North KC Atlantic City tower is bad, but the Las Vegas tower is very nice. No, their rooms aren't as nice as Ameristar and Argosy; it is the worst casino hotel in the KC area, but to call it a dump is very harsh.

Harrah's Council Bluffs isn't great, but you could go to Horseshoe where there is the Country Suites and Hilton Garden Inn which are nice. Bally's AC is debatable; I had a room in the Bally's Tower, which was a corner room and the view made up for the dumpy room. Showboat is a mediocre room. I've not stayed at Harrah's AC or Caesars, but I've been told both are considerably nicer.

The Harrah's Tunica rooms are varied, but Horseshoe and Roadhouse are both very nice. Imperial Palace is infamous, and Flamingo and Bally's are on the mediocre side. But calling any of those dumps again is an overstatement. Frankly, when I'm in a casino, I RARELY stay in the room. Free is better than paying, so if room upkeep isn't a top priority for CET, then so be it.

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Quote: sodawater

I have played craps there more than 20 times, and each time my card was scanned immediately.

I've experienced the same. One time, the computer was down for a bit when my card went in. But the pit was extremely solicitous and made sure than I knew that "my clock had started." I wisecracked back, "Thanks, but it doesn't really make that much difference." A dialogue ensued, in the middle of which he said, "I thought that they had fixed that."