tedou1
tedou1
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March 31st, 2011 at 5:07:26 AM permalink
I am a very experienced craps player and know the disadvantage of the sucker bets.
However, I have recently started covering my Come Out roll against the 2,3, or 12.
Let's say on a $5 table I would make either a C/E wager for $1 each, a Horn High YO for $5,
or a Field Bet for $5. I KNOW each is a sucker bet, but which would you recommend...if I
DID do one?
DJTeddyBear
DJTeddyBear
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March 31st, 2011 at 5:46:22 AM permalink
If you're trying to cover against a 2, 3, 12, why would you do a C/E or Horn High YO? Seems to me that you'd better achieve your goal by doing the Any Craps for $1.

For what it's worth, when I'm shooting, I'll do a C/E for about 1/2 the value of my Pass. Then again, I'm not looking to cover ONLY the craps. I'm trying to maximize my potential by trying to shoot 11. In my head, doing the C/E covers me if I "get the 11 upside-down, or hit any other bad number." Yes, I realize the only other bad numbers are 2 & 12.....
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ ————————————————————————————————————— Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
odiousgambit
odiousgambit
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March 31st, 2011 at 7:30:02 AM permalink
Quote: DJTeddyBear

If you're trying to cover against a 2, 3, 12, why would you do a C/E or Horn High YO? Seems to me that you'd better achieve your goal by doing the Any Craps for $1.

For what it's worth, when I'm shooting, I'll do a C/E for about 1/2 the value of my Pass. Then again, I'm not looking to cover ONLY the craps. I'm trying to maximize my potential by trying to shoot 11. In my head, doing the C/E covers me if I "get the 11 upside-down, or hit any other bad number." Yes, I realize the only other bad numbers are 2 & 12.....



DJ, sometimes you surprise me that you havent accepted the Gospel according to Michael [meaning the Wiz of course] , your hedging violating one of the items on the stone tablets in his version.
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!”   She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
FleaStiff
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March 31st, 2011 at 7:42:50 AM permalink
I agree. In general it seems its best to just remember that its "You pays your money and you takes your chance", not you pay your money and then pay some more money to take a contrary chance.

On the come out roll a PassLine bet wins on 7 and 11. It loses on 2, 3 and 12. Taking "insurance" on your passline bet just salves your conscience if you roll craps. Well, it happens. Put up another PassLine bet and try again. Or switch to the DontPass but why bother to straddle the middle somewhere. The house edge applies no matter what and you ain't gonna avoid that edge.
DJTeddyBear
DJTeddyBear
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March 31st, 2011 at 8:43:21 AM permalink
Quote: odiousgambit

Quote: DJTeddyBear

If you're trying to cover against a 2, 3, 12, why would you do a C/E or Horn High YO? Seems to me that you'd better achieve your goal by doing the Any Craps for $1.

For what it's worth, when I'm shooting, I'll do a C/E for about 1/2 the value of my Pass. Then again, I'm not looking to cover ONLY the craps. I'm trying to maximize my potential by trying to shoot 11. In my head, doing the C/E covers me if I "get the 11 upside-down, or hit any other bad number." Yes, I realize the only other bad numbers are 2 & 12.....


DJ, sometimes you surprise me that you havent accepted the Gospel according to Michael [meaning the Wiz of course] , your hedging violating one of the items on the stone tablets in his version.


Quite the opposite.

What the original poster was asking about is hedging. And that's the response I gave him.

What *I* do is NOT hedging, since the 11 hits both bets. I'm maximizing the potential.
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ ————————————————————————————————————— Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
RonDiaz
RonDiaz
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March 31st, 2011 at 8:49:45 AM permalink
If you're not hedging shouldn't you just bet the yo then?
TIMSPEED
TIMSPEED
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March 31st, 2011 at 9:53:45 PM permalink
I don't hedge..I simply make a field bet on the come out, equal to my passline bet. With only a 2.5% advantage, it's not TERRIBLE.
In my mind, if I make a point of 6/8 (Lose the field) it's easy enough to MAKE that field loss back.
Gambling calls to me...like this ~> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Nap37mNSmQ
pacomartin
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March 31st, 2011 at 11:04:26 PM permalink
I think "covering yourself" is just a variation of the "Gambler's Fallacy". Traditionally we think of GF as the player's strong belief that past events will influence future events when all plays are independent. But "covering yourself" when you know that all the different house edges are independent, just means you will slow down variance until you lose everything in one swoop. A bet with a high house advantage is just what it is, regardless of how you mix it with your other independent bets.
mkl654321
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April 1st, 2011 at 12:11:57 AM permalink
You can't "cover" your Pass Line bet with any of the sucker bets, because you could easily lose the sucker bets AND the Pass Line bet as well (comeout 4,5,6,8,9,10 followed eventually by a seven-out). Therefore, there's no good answer to your question.
The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. The happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality.---George Bernard Shaw
ahiromu
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April 1st, 2011 at 1:16:42 AM permalink
Alright so mathematically the correct answer is field regardless of if it pays triple on the 12.

As a fellow craps player I think a dollar on craps is the best choice. As a nickle player you're much more likely to accept the loss of a dollar than a nickle. A dollar on eleven? Not worth it because you're already winning on a yo. Horn high yo? I don't like to touch the horn because I know it's a sucker bet and it requires a minimum of $4 as compared to a craps bet which gives a similar high but only costs a buck.

Might I recommend a dollar on 12 or 2, when it eventually pays out for 30 to 1 it's fricken awesome.
Its - Possessive; It's - "It is" / "It has"; There - Location; Their - Possessive; They're - "They are"
odiousgambit
odiousgambit
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April 1st, 2011 at 4:19:57 AM permalink
Quote: DJTeddyBear


Quite the opposite.

What the original poster was asking about is hedging. And that's the response I gave him.

What *I* do is NOT hedging, since the 11 hits both bets. I'm maximizing the potential.



Quote: RonDiaz

If you're not hedging shouldn't you just bet the yo then?



I agree with Ron here, the e/c makes it hedging for sure to me, you might explain why you think otherwise
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!”   She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
Ayecarumba
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April 1st, 2011 at 1:58:29 PM permalink
Quote: tedou1

I am a very experienced craps player and know the disadvantage of the sucker bets.
However, I have recently started covering my Come Out roll against the 2,3, or 12.
Let's say on a $5 table I would make either a C/E wager for $1 each, a Horn High YO for $5,
or a Field Bet for $5. I KNOW each is a sucker bet, but which would you recommend...if I
DID do one?



I would think the "Any Craps" for a buck would be the best option. However, I would recommend you not bet any of them unless:
-- You are pressing a win, and using "house money to bet more than the $5 minimum or...
-- You believe that you can influence the dice, even slightly.

Like DJ, I don't hedge. I am actually betting on the outcome of the dice, anticipating that I can shoot 11, 3, 2, or 12. Conveniently, the Horn provides a nice hole for me to pour my chips into.
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication - Leonardo da Vinci
TIMSPEED
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April 6th, 2011 at 10:17:32 AM permalink
Quote: ahiromu

Might I recommend a dollar on 12 or 2, when it eventually pays out for 30 to 1 it's fricken awesome.


Not that awesome when you remember the HOUSE is winning $6 if you win and $1 if you lose...so obviously they'd rather you win.
Gambling calls to me...like this ~> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Nap37mNSmQ
FleaStiff
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April 6th, 2011 at 1:16:22 PM permalink
Quote: Ayecarumba

Conveniently, the Horn provides a nice hole for me to pour my chips into.


The horn is a way of making four bad bets simultaneously... and losing either 3 or 4 of them.
DJTeddyBear
DJTeddyBear
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April 6th, 2011 at 6:07:22 PM permalink
If that's the way you feel, throw a nickel at the World / Whirl instead!
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ ————————————————————————————————————— Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
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