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For example, I stumbled across this case just now, about a table games manager who was fired after he called Gaming Control agents to complain about "superstitious" dice being switched into craps games that were dumping:
http://www.courthousenews.com/2013/07/19/59514.htm
Clark County District Court, Case No. A-13-685289-C, if you want to look it up -- but the Clark County website doesn't list a lot of details.
https://www.clarkcountycourts.us/Anonymous/default.aspx
I love this business...
Quote: RomesI too love the idea... Though I'd like to be able to ask questions too. Not legal advice per say, but more like "Does anyone know the state minimum payback on slots in X, Y, or Z?"
I don't know if you really care about the payback % or if you were just using that as your example, but the following webpage is pretty useful.
http://www.americancasinoguide.com/slot-machine-payback-statistics.html
http://www.reviewjournal.com/crime/former-bellagio-craps-dealer-partners-get-prison-craps-scheme
Quote: MathExtremistThis is the front page story of the LVRJ website right now:
http://www.reviewjournal.com/crime/former-bellagio-craps-dealer-partners-get-prison-craps-scheme
Interesting little scheme. I always wondered if there were teams doing things like this with regard to the verbal wagers... The question I have is that when the next time the partner mumbled something to the dealer (Branco), and he didn't pay him off as if it was another hop bet winner, why it was never questioned that the partner at the table didn't forfeit any chips as if he lost on the hop... I'm surprised the box man or others never caught on to this as it was happening...
Quote: mrsuit31Interesting little scheme. I always wondered if there were teams doing things like this with regard to the verbal wagers... The question I have is that when the next time the partner mumbled something to the dealer (Branco), and he didn't pay him off as if it was another hop bet winner, why it was never questioned that the partner at the table didn't forfeit any chips as if he lost on the hop... I'm surprised the box man or others never caught on to this as it was happening...
There was a similar scheme in Biloxi a while back. It's very complicated to prosecute, and it's not exactly easy to explain to someone who is not familiar with playing/dealing craps, which is why they are using the statistical analysis to prove that it wasn't just chance. You get a couple undercover Gaming agents probably trying to listen to them on a busy night at a busy table and you can't even be sure if he said it or not. "he didn't say anything" "yeah he did" is not going to get anyone convicted.
There's probably almost no chance of being caught doing this as a one time thing, but you need at least one dealer and probably the box in on it, or at least a box who is clueless/looking the other way. If he could pay restitution, then he'd probably get a pretty light sentence. I would doubt that these guys are making massive fake hop bets, more likely just using it to cover their losses while they win on the pass/don't pass. Lose a few, win a few, probably don't get looked for a very long time.
"A cross-roader is a guy who makes a living taking advantage of weak spots in the casino."
NO they don't just take advantage of weak spots THEY BLATANTLY CHEAT.Quote: theotherguyJust curious. I have heard the term advantage player. Anyone ever heard this term ?
"A cross-roader is a guy who makes a living taking advantage of weak spots in the casino."
A crossroader is a guy who BLATANTLY CHEATS CASINOS. IE. Marking cards, using loaded dice, rigging slots, cheating at poker, stealing from people etc etc.
Specifically, an outside cheater (as opposed to a cheating casino employee). Sometimes crossroaders are in cahoots with crooked dealers, as were Martin and Granito from the Bellagio craps scam that was reported yesterday.Quote: AxelWolfA crossroader is a guy who BLATANTLY CHEATS CASINOS. IE. Marking cards, using loaded dice, rigging slots, cheating at poker, stealing from people etc etc.
Quote: AxelWolfNO they don't just take advantage of weak spots THEY BLATANTLY CHEAT.
A crossroader is a guy who BLATANTLY CHEATS CASINOS. IE. Marking cards, using loaded dice, rigging slots, cheating at poker, stealing from people etc etc.
An example of a common weak spot is a dealer who doesn't know the exact payout on every bet in games such as roulette or craps. Would you consider that crossroading ?
That's expressly illegal in Nevada:Quote: theotherguyAn example of a common weak spot is a dealer who doesn't know the exact payout on every bet in games such as roulette or craps. Would you consider that crossroading ?
Quote: NRS 475.070
NRS 465.070 Fraudulent acts. It is unlawful for any person:
3. To claim, collect or take, or attempt to claim, collect or take, money or anything of value in or from a gambling game, with intent to defraud, without having made a wager contingent thereon, or to claim, collect or take an amount greater than the amount won.
Wow, I didn't know they had that rule but it makes sense. Some guys will bet weird amounts at blackjack like $87 and if they get a wrong (higher) payout than 3:2 will make this bet frequently. It would be pretty had to prove the player knew they were overpaid.Quote: MathExtremistThat's expressly illegal in Nevada:
And some of those payouts in roulette where you catch a 17:1, a 8:1 and a 35:1 on the same spin can be tricky for the player too verify also.
Quote: NRS 465.088 Penalties for violation of NRS 465.070 to 465.085, inclusive.
1. A person who violates any provision of NRS 465.070 to 465.085, inclusive, is guilty of a category B felony and shall be punished:
(a) For the first offense, by imprisonment in the state prison for a minimum term of not less than 1 year and a maximum term of not more than 6 years, or by a fine of not more than $10,000, or by both fine and imprisonment.
In the Bellagio craps case, the charges weren't actually the overpaying one, they were theft and cheating. The case against Granito is Clark County Case No. C-15-309715-4:
Quote: Sentencing minutes
DEFT. GRANITO ADJUDGED GUILTY of COUNT 1 - THEFT (F); COUNT 2 - CHEATING AT GAMBLING (F). Arguments by counsel in mitigation of sentence. Statement by Defendant. Victim Speaker, Sharon Tibbits, Representative of MGM Corporation, sworn and gave victim impact statement. COURT ORDERED, in addition to the $25.00 Administrative Assessment fee, $693,700.00 restitution to be paid JOINTLY and SEVERALLY to the extent of liability, $150.00 DNA analysis fee, including testing to determine genetic markers and $3.00 DNA Collection fee, Defendant SENTENCED to COUNT 1 -to a MAXIMUM of ONE HUNDRED (100) MONTHS and a MINIMUM of THIRTY SIX (36) MONTHS in the Nevada Department of Corrections (NDC); as to COUNT 2 - MAXIMUM of SEVENTY TWO (72) MONTHS and a MINIMUM of TWENTY FOUR (24) MONTHS in the Nevada Department of Corrections (NDC), CONCURRENT with COUNT 1 with ONE (1) DAY credit for time served. BOND, if any, EXONERATED. NDC
Not sure why they needed DNA evidence...
NO!!!Quote: theotherguyAn example of a common weak spot is a dealer who doesn't know the exact payout on every bet in games such as roulette or craps. Would you consider that crossroading ?
If it's not Illegal I wouldn't call someone that. Of they are legally taking advantage of the casino they are AP.
If they specialize in cheating then I would call them a CrossRoader. Well I wouldn't call them that it's probably something that some book writer made up to make Ithe all sound better than a CHEATER adding a outlaw type of glamorous twist.
That doesn't mean a cross-roader wouldn't take advantage of that situation as well.
Quote: DiceDealerUnrelated legal question: If I put money and my player's card in a slot machine. I then let a friend sit in the chair and push the button while I stand and watch. Who gets the winnings when we hit the progressive and our friendship ends? Would it make a difference if we are both sitting in chairs equidistant from the machine?
It's been stated before in these forums: The person pushing the buttons is the one who is paid.
Quote: GreasyjohnIt's been stated before in these forums: The person pushing the buttons is the one who is paid.
My bad. I found the previous thread on the subject now. Thank you.
Quote: IbeatyouracesI'm guessing "TheOtherGuy" is Buzz?
Yeah.
IBYA is damn good guesser, I would recommend not playing poker against him.Quote: beachbumbabsYeah.
Quote: TwoFeathersATLIBYA is damn good guesser, I would recommend not playing poker against him.
Had he not been put in red, I'd have not known, or guessed for that matter.
http://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=e665087c-c345-4c98-bf8f-5922516d3678
A bit shy of a won case at this point.