Thread Rating:

jsausley
jsausley
  • Threads: 8
  • Posts: 19
Joined: Jul 24, 2014
August 6th, 2014 at 2:04:31 PM permalink
That being said, just because the dealers don't understand it doesn't really help us. Someone, somewhere understands the numbers. Otherwise they'd all be like Revel!
AxiomOfChoice
AxiomOfChoice
  • Threads: 32
  • Posts: 5761
Joined: Sep 12, 2012
August 6th, 2014 at 2:07:26 PM permalink
Quote: jsausley

That being said, just because the dealers don't understand it doesn't really help us. Someone, somewhere understands the numbers. Otherwise they'd all be like Revel!



Yeah that is why they gave DJ 20% daily loss rebates and raised his betting limit; because they understand the numbers.

Now, the math is not hard for a mathematician, but it's not something that I'd expect a layman to understand, and certainly not notice before the fact. I just find it shocking that casinos do not have people working for them to look over things like this and see if they make sense.
teddys
teddys
  • Threads: 150
  • Posts: 5527
Joined: Nov 14, 2009
August 7th, 2014 at 6:26:44 PM permalink
Quote: AxiomOfChoice


Now, the math is not hard for a mathematician, but it's not something that I'd expect a layman to understand, and certainly not notice before the fact. I just find it shocking that casinos do not have people working for them to look over things like this and see if they make sense.

Because they won't pay to have a full-time mathematician on their staff, and when they do, they fire them after nine months :0
"Dice, verily, are armed with goads and driving-hooks, deceiving and tormenting, causing grievous woe." -Rig Veda 10.34.4
Archony
Archony
  • Threads: 0
  • Posts: 18
Joined: Oct 1, 2014
October 2nd, 2014 at 1:27:33 PM permalink
To the OP: the mLife clerk can't give you full comps. They only have access to your express comps, which is about 1/3rd or 1/4th of your total comp package. Yes, you only got 10% theo because you only asked for 10% theo. You have to talk to a host to get anything more. This can be annoying to people that know about comps but don't know about the particulars of how mLife does it. To the ploppies, getting 10% back is probably a windfall. You won't be getting an assigned host at a low level but you can always talk to one.

Quote: ahiromu

Losing $75-90 on a PSO (starting off with max odds) is too much for me. I can handle two-day trip losses of $2000 - in practice, I bring more than this because my lifestyle (white collar, single, in my 20's) can handle losing more while I try to just have fun for the rest of my trip.



I play similarly. One PSO isn't bad, but it starts to suck when a table runs cold and there goes $80, another $80, another $80, ooh maybe this time it will... nope there goes another $80. WELL POOH ON YOU CRAPS IMA GONNA DROWN MYSELF AT THE BUFFET. I've been playing around with my strategy to allow me to keep the same money on the table but without those huge PSO hits. The thing where a nice run nets me much more than $80. I might post more on this after I get back from my upcoming trip (in two weeks!). To the haters: please take "no-one should ever feel bad while gambling" to the appropriate forum. If a jump in the pool or a Journey song can clear my mood then I'm really just being melodramatic, ya know?

I'm going to agree with MuggyVan on most of his points because they are important and do work. However I've got one disagreement and one clarification for point #2 here:

Quote: MuggyVan

2. MGM does not rate you on odds. So unless you are shooting the dice there's no reason for you to be playing the pass line, unless you really want that come out roll advantage of winning 1-1 on your flat bet. Instead place the bet on the point after it's been established it's the exact same bet as your pass line with full odds at $30+. And you'll get rated for your full place bet. So if you play $25 pass line with full odds, your rating will only be $25 even if you place your $125 free odds bet. But if you take your bet and place it for $150 (on a point of 6 or 8) you get rated for $150. The payout is the same, you get rated higher, plus you get the option of saving your bet/calling it off without committing your pass line bet.



Placing a 6 or 8 is marginally the same as betting on the pass line : 1.52% vs 1.41%. I'll ignore it because this is so marginal. However, placing all of the other numbers are MUCH worse: 5 and 9 are -4%, and 4 and 10 are -6.67%. Skipping the come-out roll is not a winning strategy. Over the course of each hour, this "only place the point" sort of strategy will cost you about half of a bet (that is, if you're placing $100, then this strategy will cost around $50).

Correct, you don't get rated on odds. Betting $20 + $80 odds gets you about $3 in comps per hour; $100 on the passline and no odds is about $15/hr in comps. But, of course, it costs you $28 to get that extra $12 back. Yet EV discussions are mostly pointless in the short term, because either the table runs cold and goes P7O way too often, or it gets hot and you come away with a lot more cash, or whatever. It's never $28. Over the course of your first 1000 hours at craps, your results are dominated by luck.
teddys
teddys
  • Threads: 150
  • Posts: 5527
Joined: Nov 14, 2009
October 2nd, 2014 at 6:58:46 PM permalink
Very much enjoy your informative posts, Archony. Glad to have you here.
"Dice, verily, are armed with goads and driving-hooks, deceiving and tormenting, causing grievous woe." -Rig Veda 10.34.4
Brewfangrb
Brewfangrb
  • Threads: 0
  • Posts: 48
Joined: Sep 4, 2014
October 8th, 2014 at 11:12:39 PM permalink
Quote: MuggyVan

I'm going to give some advice to all you players who want to get rated correctly when playing craps.
1. Buy in more than what you intend to gamble. If it's a $100-$200 buy in for $500 and be disciplined enough to leave when you lose your limit. Your buy in does count for something, not as much as average bet and length of play, but your buy in does count.
2. MGM does not rate you on odds. So unless you are shooting the dice there's no reason for you to be playing the pass line, unless you really want that come out roll advantage of winning 1-1 on your flat bet. Instead place the bet on the point after it's been established it's the exact same bet as your pass line with full odds at $30+. And you'll get rated for your full place bet. So if you play $25 pass line with full odds, your rating will only be $25 even if you place your $125 free odds bet. But if you take your bet and place it for $150 (on a point of 6 or 8) you get rated for $150. The payout is the same, you get rated higher, plus you get the option of saving your bet/calling it off without committing your pass line bet.



I'm going to reveal myself to be a moron, here, but I guess I didn't know that placing the point got full odds. In fact, I'm not sure I understand that anyway--that odds has a max (so 5x on the 6/8). Are you saying you could place the table limit on the point and get paid full odds? Or am I misunderstanding?

Edit: I realize now I was misunderstanding. With a point of 6/8, on a $25 PL + $125 odds bet, you're getting $25 + $150 ($125 * 1.2) = $175. Placing the 6/8 for the same total $150, you get $175 ($150 * 1.16666). I was wrong reading "same payout" as "same odds." Told you I would reveal myself a moron.
Buzzard
Buzzard
  • Threads: 90
  • Posts: 6814
Joined: Oct 28, 2012
October 8th, 2014 at 11:16:47 PM permalink
Quote: teddys

Because they won't pay to have a full-time mathematician on their staff, and when they do, they fire them after nine months :0



Awww, I can't believe that. Can you provide documentation ? In your briefs !
Shed not for her the bitter tear Nor give the heart to vain regret Tis but the casket that lies here, The gem that filled it Sparkles yet
Sonuvabish
Sonuvabish
  • Threads: 29
  • Posts: 1342
Joined: Feb 5, 2014
October 9th, 2014 at 4:06:21 AM permalink
I thought the title of this thread was "My life sucks". What a disappointing read.
ahiromu
ahiromu
  • Threads: 112
  • Posts: 2107
Joined: Jan 15, 2010
November 19th, 2014 at 12:33:39 PM permalink
I decided to continue my rant/discussion about MLife. I went with a few friends this past weekend... still deciding on a trip report but here is my comp report.

I received Fri-Sat comped at NYNY and had to pay for Sunday night. This one kind of pissed me off, the fact that I'm being comped two nights, 2-3 times the value of Sunday each, but they just had to charge me for this one. Nonetheless, got a value of $220-250 out of this so that's nice.

They had me down for 18 hours at $50 a hand at the end of the trip. My time was split, about evenly, between craps ($70-120 per hand) and a 6 deck CSM blackjack game ($15 per hand, $30-50 maybe 20% of the time). Therefore, my rating seemed fair, if not on the low end (or I'm overestimating). Almost no slots this time around. I ended the trip +1200, 20k tier credits from play alone (26k-6k for my $150 payment on the room), and $30 in express comps. Total compensation for this trip was $250-300 in value to them (we all know the rooms don't actually cost them $100-120 a night).

I went to the MLife desk and was given a weird look when I asked to speak with a host. She kind of ignored my request at first, "informing" me that the original comp was subtracted from my "comp balance" before anything else could be given out. I pressed and she got a host on duty on the line. She gave me the same bullshit, I got the feeling that I was going to be given absolutely nothing more so I let cooler heads prevail and said something along the lines of "You guys have your formulas and what you've said is done, very well" and walked away.

I had a $30 food charge on there along with three separate $20 resort fees. There was a lot of room for them to throw me a bone, but they weren't willing to budge at all. Corporate bullshit.

I will continue to do some exploring, but I'm pretty certain I have to do the majority of my gambling at MLife casinos in order to keep getting these room offers. In other words, I don't have a lot of leeway to start a legitimate history with another casino chain. I may have to take a day trip to a single casino and give them 8 hours of $50 action, in order to start somewhere else. We'll see.

MLife sucks, but I'll continue going there, assuming I keep getting two nights any days offers. I'm kind of stuck there for now and NYNY successfully caters to my age group. However, Monte Carlo serves real Red Bull but is a pretty boring casino.

Long story short, I have learned that $50 for more than 4 hours a day can get you a room at NYNY. However, they are NOT connected to MLife online. I never received an offer until I started getting mailers and called them. Monte Carlo and Excalibur have actively tried to recruit me online.
Its - Possessive; It's - "It is" / "It has"; There - Location; Their - Possessive; They're - "They are"
bluefire
bluefire
  • Threads: 10
  • Posts: 156
Joined: May 24, 2010
November 21st, 2014 at 2:04:35 PM permalink
Yeah, MLife is goofy from a comp perspective compared to Total Rewards. They usually can take money off of my bill at the end, but MLife seems like it is divided up into two separate groups: Corporate and the individual casinos. For Corporate, from what I've seen, they basically only give offers based on your level of players club card. There's then the individual casino offers that each casino sends and is independent from MLife (and most of the time, don't show up on mlife.com, although they seem to always show up from Luxor for some reason).

I really wish it was like Total Rewards where I'd get offers from all the different casinos and they were all linked up for play, but it's not. I'm lucky enough to be staying at the Bellagio for a work conference, so I'll probably gamble some there over the course of the trip and see what I can get. Right now, I've concentrated my MLife play on Mandalay Bay, NYNY, and Luxor, so I pretty much only get offers from those three.



But, it's a trade off, as I like the MGM Properties way better than Total Rewards. I'd rather stay in MB/Luxor/NYNY than PH/Paris/Flamingo/Ballys. I find them nicer hotels in general with more that I enjoy.
ahiromu
ahiromu
  • Threads: 112
  • Posts: 2107
Joined: Jan 15, 2010
November 21st, 2014 at 4:30:05 PM permalink
Quote: bluefire

I'd rather stay in MB/Luxor/NYNY than PH/Paris/Flamingo/Ballys. I find them nicer hotels in general with more that I enjoy.



I'm not sure I'd add Luxor to that list, but it's your list, I wasn't very impressed with that place. I agree with everything else you said, add Monte Carlo to the list of casinos that are online exclusively and Excalibur that adopts a hybrid strategy.

CET is a nonstarter because of their charging a commission always to buy the 4 & 10, I'm happy for you, that you have the option. It's good to have a relationship with a strip casino, but I'll be looking elsewhere.
Its - Possessive; It's - "It is" / "It has"; There - Location; Their - Possessive; They're - "They are"
ahiromu
ahiromu
  • Threads: 112
  • Posts: 2107
Joined: Jan 15, 2010
July 24th, 2015 at 11:27:47 AM permalink
I'm back and I think I have figured out my problem. I go too often, why should they incentivize me if I'm already going there every quarter? I came to this conclusion because I go with a friend every few trips (He comes every 3-4 trips I make) that actually gambles as much as I do. His offers are far and away better than mine at MLife properties. The only major differences between us are total loss and frequency of visits; he has a higher average bet, but I play longer than him, I am of the "professional" opinion that these have cancelled out.

His total losses are pretty bad, two trips 5-6k total, whereas I have probably averaged a loss of 1k per trip over the past year (good craps sessions have been awesome). They are either heavily weighting losses per trip or putting my offers on ice because of how often I go. This compares to TR, who is willing to give me a room (anywhere sans Nobu, yes Cromwell weekends) and a few hundred in free play within consecutive months for the exact same play.

~~~~~~~~~~~~

I put in two trips of $100 PGP (3-4 hours per comped night) and $70-100 craps (2-3 hours per comped night). My play was spread around NYNY, MGM, and Aria. Literally nothing from MGM nor Aria. I have my standard offer that hasn't really moved for a year from NYNY ($100 FP). Because of outside circumstances (I accidentally, somehow, managed to book myself three Vegas trips within 70 days) I won't be able to keep up my level of play when I go, so speaking with a host that has sent me generic mailers isn't an option... I don't want my first time through a host to be a decrease in play.

MLife sucks, but why are they going to do anything with their main competition on the brink of bankruptcy.
Its - Possessive; It's - "It is" / "It has"; There - Location; Their - Possessive; They're - "They are"
teddys
teddys
  • Threads: 150
  • Posts: 5527
Joined: Nov 14, 2009
July 26th, 2015 at 1:52:30 PM permalink
Did you try and get Nobu? I got assigned to the Palace Tower last time I stayed at Caesars. But I didn't request Nobu and just asked to be assigned randomly. The Palace Tower is pretty good -- older, but big rooms.

I think next time I'll stay at P-Ho or Paris. Maybe Cromwell.

How do you get free play from Caesars? Is that table play?
"Dice, verily, are armed with goads and driving-hooks, deceiving and tormenting, causing grievous woe." -Rig Veda 10.34.4
ahiromu
ahiromu
  • Threads: 112
  • Posts: 2107
Joined: Jan 15, 2010
July 26th, 2015 at 3:12:18 PM permalink
I've had to take a break, life priorities have changed, but my next trip will be at Rio (convention) and Nobu still shows as unattainable. My next big trip staying at a CET property might not be until after the new year.

Over the past calendar year, I have learned PGP and shown them quite a bit of $130-150/hand. I have taken good care of my ADT, with no small play days for at least a full 12 months now. Rough guess is their records show I am worth $1500 for a three night trip with consistent play, I'm seeing a good 30-35% from TR and 20% (if I'm lucky) from MGM.

The free play is slot FP (mostly unrestricted, I think some VP may be) and what we term "promo chips" or play-until-you-lose-em 1-1 payouts only. Have you seen people playing with coupons? I think ~$50 and less is in the form of a store coupon and higher denominations come in an envelope and are more official looking.
Its - Possessive; It's - "It is" / "It has"; There - Location; Their - Possessive; They're - "They are"
ahiromu
ahiromu
  • Threads: 112
  • Posts: 2107
Joined: Jan 15, 2010
December 14th, 2015 at 1:59:29 PM permalink
I took a trip (friends) to NYNY. Now that I know what to expect there, I gave them a decreased amount of play knowing that they would comp me very little (they comped nothing). This was a room for three nights plus $100... which is just a slap in the face considering they tend to comp very little food and charge me a resort fee. Knowing that MGM casinos work much more on a per-property basis than TR, I focused all of my play at NYNY hoping to at least keep what I have with them.

You can imagine my shock when I got a 2-night & $100 offer for Aria in the mail today. Unlike previous offers, this one has no mention of weekend restrictions, so I can presume it's through 5/31 (Spring offer) any day within reason... I don't expect to be able to call for a NYE room on the day after Christmas. I checked two random weekend nights in March and they came out to $250-300 a night.

I started this thread two years ago and still have no idea how MLife works... and I'm starting to think they don't either. Also, charging comped guests $25 for a resort fee is a sham, screw you guys.
Its - Possessive; It's - "It is" / "It has"; There - Location; Their - Possessive; They're - "They are"
ams288
ams288
  • Threads: 22
  • Posts: 6483
Joined: Sep 26, 2012
December 14th, 2015 at 2:30:06 PM permalink
Whenever I have comped nights from MLife and they try to charge me a resort fee, right before I check out I call down and tell them that when I booked they told me resort fees were comped! (Even if it's not true).

Usually I go for 4 nights: 2 of them are usually comped, and I get discounted rates for the other two. I figure out the total (discounted rates + 12% tax) and tell them that was the total that I was quoted when I booked.

So far it's worked every time.

Resort fees are total B.S. and I have no problem lying through my teeth to avoid them.
Ding Dong the Witch is Dead
Ibeatyouraces
Ibeatyouraces
  • Threads: 68
  • Posts: 11933
Joined: Jan 12, 2010
December 14th, 2015 at 2:35:30 PM permalink
Starting tomorrow, Las Vegas table games players will no longer receive Express Comps. Only slot players will.
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
ahiromu
ahiromu
  • Threads: 112
  • Posts: 2107
Joined: Jan 15, 2010
December 14th, 2015 at 3:19:09 PM permalink
That's absurd, another $30-40 they're taking away from me.
Its - Possessive; It's - "It is" / "It has"; There - Location; Their - Possessive; They're - "They are"
Ibeatyouraces
Ibeatyouraces
  • Threads: 68
  • Posts: 11933
Joined: Jan 12, 2010
December 14th, 2015 at 3:23:39 PM permalink
You can read about it at the bottom of the Mlife website.
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
beachbumbabs
beachbumbabs
  • Threads: 100
  • Posts: 14260
Joined: May 21, 2013
December 14th, 2015 at 10:58:49 PM permalink
Quote: Ibeatyouraces

Starting tomorrow, Las Vegas table games players will no longer receive Express Comps. Only slot players will.



Thanks, Cosmo, for starting this crap. Really appreciate that.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
djatc
djatc
  • Threads: 83
  • Posts: 4477
Joined: Jan 15, 2013
December 14th, 2015 at 11:46:05 PM permalink
Things are gonna suck for this guy named aceofspades
"Man Babes" #AxelFabulous
ahiromu
ahiromu
  • Threads: 112
  • Posts: 2107
Joined: Jan 15, 2010
August 30th, 2016 at 3:00:37 PM permalink
Aria had been bugging me with an offer from my $100 pai gow days so I took them up on it. Saturday and Sunday night + $100 resort credit. I won the first day and lost it all back and more the second, classic Vegas. Gambling was non-eventful for me, I low played them, but not enough to cause a big problem imo. A few oddities...

- Dbags wouldn't let me apply my resort credit to the resort fee. Resort fee was $30-something plus tax.
- Aria buffet's crab legs are pathetic. They're like, sub-Safeway size. Every part of the buffet was disappointing except the dessert station. I can't believe they had the gall to charge me $40+ each. Another victim of MGM's PGP.
- I saw a guy playing $2100 on the 6 and 8 each, that was neat. I saw a terrible 20 minute run where a guy bought in and lost 4k, that would have been neat if I wasn't losing too.
- Aria's elevator bank is one of the most efficiently run and planned out operations I have seen. Never waited more than 30-40 seconds up or down, diligent room key checking.
- Huge dedication to slots. An entire bank of slots (maybe 100'x100') outside of their high limit section is dedicated to $5 slots and is always empty. I think they went too far, but who knows. They had three or four hosts just chilling in the high limit slots area, that or the payout attendants were just very well dressed.

I'm totally done with MLife, we'll see what they offer me when the economy tanks again.
Its - Possessive; It's - "It is" / "It has"; There - Location; Their - Possessive; They're - "They are"
100xOdds
100xOdds
  • Threads: 638
  • Posts: 4256
Joined: Feb 5, 2012
August 30th, 2016 at 5:09:15 PM permalink
a new mgm is opening near me.
I'm hoping they match my Caesar's Diamond with a Mlife Gold.

yeah, from what I read, mlife comps are inferior to caesars.
but since its a new casino, I'm going to spend a little time (and $) there.
Hopefully they have better video poker than the recently downgraded Horseshoe.
Craps is paradise (Pair of dice). Lets hear it for the SpeedCount Mathletes :)
ahiromu
ahiromu
  • Threads: 112
  • Posts: 2107
Joined: Jan 15, 2010
August 31st, 2016 at 2:26:38 PM permalink
I doubt the video poker gets better at National Harbor. They're taxed like slots at 67%, so why would you offer anything other than 6:5?

I expect the craps pit to be amazing, but I have rules against local gambling, so I'll be staying away for the most part.
Its - Possessive; It's - "It is" / "It has"; There - Location; Their - Possessive; They're - "They are"
  • Jump to: