Paradigm
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August 26th, 2016 at 9:22:43 AM permalink
Deal & Reveal - Palazzo
Turbo Sports - Stratosphere
Sands Roulette - Venetian

All went live in the last 8 days...anyone seen them?
SM777
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August 26th, 2016 at 11:25:40 AM permalink
Deal & Reveal looks promising.

Turbo Sports looks like a total failure.

Not sure what Sands Roulette is.
Paradigm
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August 26th, 2016 at 11:54:34 AM permalink
I couldn't find anything on Turbo Sports, didn't see it listed on the Turbo Gaming LLC website either. The name alone leads me to believe your analysis is correct. Reminds me of the feeling I got when I saw "Must Flush"...kind of a "what were they thinking?' moment.

Sands Roulette is also a mystery...developed by LVS, I don't like that precedent.

We need boots on the ground to figure out what these two games are about.

Deal and Reveal will be interesting....is there a side bet specific for the game or is it debuting with just the base game in play?
Last edited by: Paradigm on Aug 26, 2016
MathExtremist
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August 26th, 2016 at 12:24:01 PM permalink
Quote: SM777

Deal & Reveal looks promising.

Turbo Sports looks like a total failure.

Not sure what Sands Roulette is.

Where did you find the rules for the games online? Or did you see them in person? I looked at the GCB website but only found the trial notices.
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice." -- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
DJTeddyBear
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August 26th, 2016 at 12:29:58 PM permalink
Since a bunch of us are gonna be in town for G2E, maybe we should get together for a group reconnaissance mission.
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ ————————————————————————————————————— Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
SM777
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August 26th, 2016 at 12:43:01 PM permalink
Quote: Paradigm

I couldn't find anything on Turbo Sports, didn't see it listed on the Turbo Gaming LLC website either. The name alone leads me to believe your analysis is correct. Reminds me of the feeling I got when I saw "Must Flush"...kind of a "what were they thinking?' moment.

Sands Roulette is also a mystery...developed by LVS, I don't like that precedent.

We need boots on the ground to figure out what these two games are about.

Deal and Reveal will be interesting....is there a side bet specific for the game or is it debuting with just the base game in play?



No side bet.
SM777
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August 26th, 2016 at 12:44:17 PM permalink
Quote: MathExtremist

Where did you find the rules for the games online? Or did you see them in person? I looked at the GCB website but only found the trial notices.



I'm familiar with Deal & Reveal, and saw Turbo previously before it was placed.
mrsuit31
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August 26th, 2016 at 1:04:26 PM permalink
Quote: SM777

I'm familiar with Deal & Reveal, and saw Turbo previously before it was placed.



Turbo's placement is again a result of the assistance by the same consultant that got the 9 card fortune flush game placed.
.
Paigowdan
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August 26th, 2016 at 1:39:22 PM permalink
Quote: SM777

I'm familiar with Deal & Reveal, and saw Turbo previously before it was placed.



D & R is double exposure when the dealer has a stiff up card, 2 to 6 (e.g., dealer reveals the hole card when his upcard is 2 to 6);
the push-22 mechanism is in effect ONLY on dealer stiff-upcard hands when he exposes. On dealer's up card of 7+, all regular blackjack resumes.

Quite straightforward, (SM777 please verify as correct)
.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
shrimpboatcapt
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August 26th, 2016 at 1:44:38 PM permalink
Quote: mrsuit31

Turbo's placement is again a result of the assistance by the same consultant that got the 9 card fortune flush game placed.



Which consultant is this :)?
Paradigm
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August 26th, 2016 at 1:45:11 PM permalink
Quote: SM777

I'm familiar with Deal & Reveal, and saw Turbo previously before it was placed.


What was Turbo Sports when you saw it?
SM777
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August 26th, 2016 at 2:24:59 PM permalink
Quote: Paigowdan

D & R is double exposure when the dealer has a stiff up card, 2 to 6 (e.g., dealer reveals the hole card when his upcard is 2 to 6);
the push-22 mechanism is in effect ONLY on dealer stiff-upcard hands when he exposes. On dealer's up card of 7+, all regular blackjack resumes.

Quite straightforward, (SM777 please verify as correct)
.




That's correct
Paigowdan
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August 26th, 2016 at 2:42:36 PM permalink
Thank you SM777, haven't made it to V/P yet, but will soon. Looks like a winner.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
Zcore13
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August 26th, 2016 at 3:11:33 PM permalink
Quote: Paigowdan

Thank you SM777, haven't made it to V/P yet, but will soon. Looks like a winner.



Maybe to you... If it was any other distributor, it would die a quick death. Shuffle has the muscle and can price things very aggressively if they want something on the floor to start out. After that it has to have the legs to stand on its own. I don't think this one does. We'll see.

ZCore13
I am an employee of a Casino. Former Table Games Director,, current Pit Supervisor. All the personal opinions I post are my own and do not represent the opinions of the Casino or Tribe that I work for.
RoyalBJ
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August 26th, 2016 at 3:21:42 PM permalink
Quote: Zcore13

Maybe to you... If it was any other distributor, it would die a quick death. Shuffle has the muscle and can price things very aggressively if they want something on the floor to start out. After that it has to have the legs to stand on its own. I don't think this one does. We'll see.

ZCore13

+1.

Sounds like it utilizes 2-6 from Lucky Stiff and 22 push from Switch.
Paigowdan
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August 26th, 2016 at 3:31:14 PM permalink
Quote: Zcore13

Maybe to you... If it was any other distributor, it would die a quick death. Shuffle has the muscle and can price things very aggressively if they want something on the floor to start out. After that it has to have the legs to stand on its own. I don't think this one does. We'll see.

ZCore13


I'm thinking about this as a Geoff Hall game; he's got a sharp eye and a real talent in game design. Has a shot.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
SM777
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August 26th, 2016 at 6:02:09 PM permalink
Quote: Zcore13

Maybe to you... If it was any other distributor, it would die a quick death. Shuffle has the muscle and can price things very aggressively if they want something on the floor to start out. After that it has to have the legs to stand on its own. I don't think this one does. We'll see.

ZCore13



It's got a great shot. As mentioned, Geoff Hall has done very well, and The Venetian already has Free Bet and Zappit BJ using the Push 22. The game fits right into place here, and is fun to play.

Also has a second chance BJ feature where the dealer will throw out a BJ one time and start with a new bottom card.
SM777
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August 26th, 2016 at 6:03:15 PM permalink
Quote: Paradigm

What was Turbo Sports when you saw it?



It was an awful game where you're trying to get a "touchdown."

I suppose this could be something different, but I doubt it. Bad location for a field trial as well.
Paradigm
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August 27th, 2016 at 11:34:07 PM permalink
Is a Strip property the best location for a field trial? I feel like the majority of the gambling universe in the US is a locals market. What works on the Strip doesn't always work in a locals market (e.g. 6:5 never flies outside of Vegas in a local market with any sort of competition). Seems like a Stations or Downtown location may be a better indication of a games ability to work across the regional markets in the US. Thoughts on that?
beachbumbabs
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August 28th, 2016 at 12:09:06 AM permalink
Quote: Paradigm

Is a Strip property the best location for a field trial? I feel like the majority of the gambling universe in the US is a locals market. What works on the Strip doesn't always work in a locals market (e.g. 6:5 never flies outside of Vegas in a local market with any sort of competition). Seems like a Stations or Downtown location may be a better indication of a games ability to work across the regional markets in the US. Thoughts on that?



I would agree.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
Paigowdan
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August 28th, 2016 at 7:39:38 AM permalink
Quote: Paradigm

Is a Strip property the best location for a field trial? I feel like the majority of the gambling universe in the US is a locals market. What works on the Strip doesn't always work in a locals market (e.g. 6:5 never flies outside of Vegas in a local market with any sort of competition). Seems like a Stations or Downtown location may be a better indication of a games ability to work across the regional markets in the US. Thoughts on that?



Local casinos may have games that get reputations by regulars of cliques or players, - good or bad that influence patronage.

Strip or tourist properties may have more people unaffected by bad buzz, seeing it fresh coming into town and trying it.

I'm of the opinion if a game works for the gambler on its own merits, they'll remember its name and return to play it again.

Not all games work at all casinos, some do find niches, but many work at many places.
Last edited by: Paigowdan on Aug 28, 2016
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
Wizard
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August 28th, 2016 at 4:35:38 PM permalink
Quote: Paigowdan

D & R is double exposure when the dealer has a stiff up card, 2 to 6 (e.g., dealer reveals the hole card when his upcard is 2 to 6);
the push-22 mechanism is in effect ONLY on dealer stiff-upcard hands when he exposes. On dealer's up card of 7+, all regular blackjack resumes.



What are the following rules:

1. Does dealer peek for blackjack?
2. Number of decks?
3. Does dealer hit or stand on soft 17?
4. Surrender?
5. Double after splitting?
6. Number of hands the player may re-split to?
7. Can player double on a blackjack (sometimes he should in Double Exposure)?
8. Anything else unusual?
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
Paigowdan
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August 28th, 2016 at 5:10:04 PM permalink
Mike,
If me, believe it or not I didn't make it to V/P; I went to GVR to play the progressive version of Poker with a Joker/Wild-5 instead. (and got killed today, too, but won last time.)
Someone who made it to the Palazzo, or Switch - help!

The "stiff push-22" is an interesting new mechanism: With the Push-22 occurring only on a 2 to 6 upcard ("Stiff Exposure"), that would make the effect of the push-22 mechanism even milder, (about 3%?) - and with players keeping the 3:2 BJ. Nice. Clean game design.
Last edited by: Paigowdan on Aug 28, 2016
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
Wizard
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August 29th, 2016 at 11:17:28 AM permalink
To answer my own post:

1. Does dealer peek for blackjack? Yes
2. Number of decks? 6 or 8. Knowing the Palazzo, probably 6.
3. Does dealer hit or stand on soft 17? Hit
4. Surrender? No
5. Double after splitting? Yes
6. Number of hands the player may re-split to? Four
7. Can player double on a blackjack (sometimes he should in Double Exposure)? I don't know
8. Anything else unusual? Yes! See below.

Two other rules that should be stressed:

1. If the player hits or doubles to 21 it is an automatic winner.
2. If the dealer has an ace up, and the hole card is a 10-point card, then the dealer will burn it and give himself the next card in the deck as the hole card. If that second hole card is a 10-point card, then the dealer shall have a blackjack.
Last edited by: Wizard on Aug 29, 2016
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
Wizard
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August 29th, 2016 at 1:51:49 PM permalink
Based on a model with infinite decks and infinite re-splitting, I get a house edge of 1.17% for Deal & Reveal.

ShuffleMaster was kind enough to send me their math report by our own CrystalMath, who gets 1.11% based on six decks.

Full page on the game to come soon!
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
Hunterhill
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August 29th, 2016 at 2:17:45 PM permalink
Is insurance offered?
The mountain is tall but grass grows on top of the mountain.
Wizard
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August 29th, 2016 at 2:26:00 PM permalink
Quote: Hunterhill

Is insurance offered?



Yes, after checking if the initial hole card is a ten, and replacing it with a random card if it is.

So, instead of being given the insurance opportunity 1/13=7.69% of the time, it will be (1/13)*(4/13)=2.37% of the time, assuming infinite decks.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
CrystalMath
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August 29th, 2016 at 2:32:59 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Yes, after checking if the initial hole card is a ten, and replacing it with a random card if it is.

So, instead of being given the insurance opportunity 1/13=7.69% of the time, it will be (1/13)*(4/13)=2.37% of the time, assuming infinite decks.



The house edge is worse, too, since there is always another 10 missing.
I heart Crystal Math.
Wizard
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August 29th, 2016 at 8:27:26 PM permalink
I've started a page on Deal & Reveal. Just the rules so far. I welcome any comments or questions if they are not clear.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
MathExtremist
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August 31st, 2016 at 8:10:29 AM permalink
Do we know what "Sands Roulette" is yet?
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice." -- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
Wizard
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September 4th, 2016 at 2:58:56 PM permalink
According to the list of field trial games, the Texas Station started a game called Texas Switch on Sep 1. Anyone know anything about it?
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
Zcore13
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September 4th, 2016 at 3:25:10 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

According to the list of field trial games, the Texas Station started a game called Texas Switch on Sep 1. Anyone know anything about it?



Here's some past discussion. Page 2 has info about me refusing to trial it.

Less than fair Conference win


ZCore13
I am an employee of a Casino. Former Table Games Director,, current Pit Supervisor. All the personal opinions I post are my own and do not represent the opinions of the Casino or Tribe that I work for.
doubleluck
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September 17th, 2016 at 9:42:17 PM permalink
After doing a little investigative work, I found out that Sands Roulette is nothing more than triple 0 roulette.
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