Zcore13
Zcore13
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March 7th, 2015 at 4:08:51 PM permalink
Quote: mrsuit31

The official Hold% for the first 40 days of play is 19.26%. Quite happy with this...



Congrats! Unless it's dealing as fast as blackjack, that hold number is probably going to have to climb, but it sounds like it may if you had a few large payouts early on.

I don't even look at hold percentage until 90 days.

ZCore13
I am an employee of a Casino. Former Table Games Director,, current Pit Supervisor. All the personal opinions I post are my own and do not represent the opinions of the Casino or Tribe that I work for.
mrsuit31
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March 8th, 2015 at 6:10:54 PM permalink
Quote: Zcore13

Congrats! Unless it's dealing as fast as blackjack, that hold number is probably going to have to climb, but it sounds like it may if you had a few large payouts early on.

I don't even look at hold percentage until 90 days.

ZCore13



Thanks Z,

I will fill you in tomorrow with the new number. It has already increased a bit since then. And yes without a few of those notable wins week one the hold would be right around 24-25%. But it's creeping up there already. Last I checked we were at 21.21%. But like you said, until we double this sample and maintain the same level of play (which is only increasing, which is surprising based on the weather conditions up there), then the hold will really express the true play. It's designed to be in that 24 - 27% range.

It plays virtually as fast as three card. The dice shake is really the only additional step. The draw flip after the natural bonus wager resolution leaves the sequence virtually unchanged... This is actually something the dealers liked very much.

Most importantly right now is the popularity. That combined with the existing 31 player base is really helping me prove the 31 market to a few skeptics of its existence along the way... So fingers crossed it keeps on trucking along.
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mrsuit31
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March 9th, 2015 at 5:51:04 AM permalink
The game had a very high traffic the last several of days with very strong performance numbers. The game is Holding 24.91%. Right in that sweet spot...
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Gabes22
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March 9th, 2015 at 6:35:28 AM permalink
Quote: mrsuit31

But like you said, until we double this sample and maintain the same level of play (which is only increasing, which is surprising based on the weather condintions up there)



Yoopers are a hardy bunch. It takes a special kind of person to live in an area in which it snows an average of 200 inches a year. I have family that went to NMU in Marquette and Michigan Tech in Houghton (Ho-tuhn) and they always said you would get a freshman from the South that would drop out solely due to the weather every year.
A flute with no holes is not a flute, a donut with no holes is a danish
mrsuit31
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March 9th, 2015 at 6:53:38 AM permalink
Quote: Gabes22

Yoopers are a hardy bunch. It takes a special kind of person to live in an area in which it snows an average of 200 inches a year. I have family that went to NMU in Marquette and Michigan Tech in Houghton (Ho-tuhn) and they always said you would get a freshman from the South that would drop out solely due to the weather every year.



It has been brutal up there for a few weeks. At times the manager told me it was -32 when he would get in to work... Tooo cold for me!
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mrsuit31
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March 10th, 2015 at 11:56:23 AM permalink
Here is a more in depth look at how the game is performing vs the other games on the floor.

-Craps (two tables on the floor, mini craps and full size)- Money$uit 31 is dropping 41% of the total drop of both tables combined, while maintaining 226% of the Hold percentage.

-Roulette/one single table - Money$uit 31 is dropping 71% in comparison, while maintaining a 92.29% hold in comparison.

-Three way action/only a single table (the lowest dropping carni game on the floor)- Money$uit 31 is dropping 664%, Hold comparison is unnecessary as the hold on this game is outrageous at the moment.

-The highest and formally most popular carnival game on the floor Phil'em up poker/ one single table- Money$uit 31 is dropping 155%, while maintaining 155% hold in comparison to this game.

- BJ shoe dealt/ two live tables- Money$uit 31 is dropping 18.1% compared to both combined while maintaining a 180% hold in comparison of the overall hold of both tables.

-BJ pitch dealt/ two live tables- Money$uit 31 is dropping 18.6% compared to both combined while maintaining a 169% hold in comparison of the overall hold of both table.

I am VERY happy with these!
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UCivan
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March 10th, 2015 at 12:46:44 PM permalink
VERY IMPRESSIVE, ALL CAPS. CONGRA.
mrsuit31
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March 10th, 2015 at 2:15:49 PM permalink
Quote: UCivan

VERY IMPRESSIVE, ALL CAPS. CONGRA.



Thanks UCivan!
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dummy
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March 10th, 2015 at 2:25:16 PM permalink
Way to go Brent. If you see the guy who invented the term hold, shoot him. Dividing Win by drop
= hold. Who cares. Win pays the bill.... Dividing the little number by the big number is dumb. If a game holds tpo much,
players stop playing. Holdtoo littleand DC thewin suffers. Micro managing by thesame supervisors
who have $25minimum on empty tablebecause it is Friday night .
mrsuit31
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March 10th, 2015 at 3:38:06 PM permalink
Quote: dummy

Way to go Brent. If you see the guy who invented the term hold, shoot him. Dividing Win by drop
= hold. Who cares. Win pays the bill.... Dividing the little number by the big number is dumb. If a game holds tpo much,
players stop playing. Hold too little and DC thewin suffers. Micro managing by thesame supervisors
who have $25minimum on empty tablebecause it is Friday night .



Thank you Dummy!

Hopefully I will have other good news to supply soon. A few things in the works, in some big places. To be continued.............
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Lucky
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March 10th, 2015 at 6:15:04 PM permalink
Quote: dummy

Way to go Brent. If you see the guy who invented the term hold, shoot him. Dividing Win by drop
= hold. Who cares. Win pays the bill.... .


THANK YOU, dummy. So true. I'll take a huge drop with a low-to-moderate hold any day over a small drop with a huge hold %. Maximizing the win on the table is the objective. I've never understood why such a large emphasis has been placed on the 'hold' metric, especially when it takes the 'eye off the ball.'

This aside, congratulations Brent! Looks like you're gaining a popular following in Michigan. Keep up the good work.
"Success consists of going from failure to failure without loss of enthusiasm." -- Winston Churchill
mrsuit31
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March 10th, 2015 at 6:54:39 PM permalink
Quote: Lucky

THANK YOU, dummy. So true. I'll take a huge drop with a low-to-moderate hold any day over a small drop with a huge hold %. Maximizing the win on the table is the objective. I've never understood why such a large emphasis has been placed on the 'hold' metric, especially when it takes the 'eye off the ball.'

This aside, congratulations Brent! Looks like you're gaining a popular following in Michigan. Keep up the good work.



Thank you Harry!

On the hold % topic...

Ill be honest. I'm starting to see the worth in the hold% metric in a few different areas.

Security wise, it can alert staff to possible breaches in game security. It can direct management/surveillance to look/observe a specific game/table for potential scams causing a slight or major continuous decrease in hold. And yes this seemingly has nothing to do with us, but at the same time it can express potential vulnerability. So perhaps it does.........

Also, I can certainly understand the curiosity into the hold of a game, as it truly does express the "feel" of the game to players in some way. The hold viewed in conjunction with the event probabilities can, in my opinion, express how a game feels, without placing the game on the floor. Remember, the issue with installing a new game is it can bomb and perhaps leave a sour taste in a patron's mouths, damaging the casinos reputation, and perhaps even hurt retention overall. The hold is really the only obtainable live performance statistic that expresses this, at least in some way. Although, of course it isn't perfect.

Focusing on win alone, in my opinion, is only appropriate in non-competitive markets, where players don't have a choice of facilities to choose and games to play.
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Lucky
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March 10th, 2015 at 7:49:13 PM permalink
Quote: mrsuit31

Thank you Harry!

On the hold % topic...

Ill be honest. I'm starting to see the worth in the hold% metric in a few different areas.

Security wise, it can alert staff to possible breaches in game security. It can alert management to look/observe a specific game/table for potential scams causing a slight or major continuous decrease in hold. And yes this seemingly has nothing to do with us, but at the same time it can express potential vulnerability. So perhaps it does.........

However, I can certainly understand the curiosity into the hold of a game, as it truly does express the "feel" of the game to players in some way. The hold viewed in conjunction with the event probabilities can, in my opinion, express how a game feels, without placing the game on the floor. Remember, the issue with installing a new game is it can bomb and perhaps leave a sour taste in a patron's mouths, damaging the casinos reputation, and perhaps even hurt retention overall. The hold is really the only obtainable live performance statistic that expresses this, at least in some way, as of course it isn't perfect.

focusing on win alone, in my opinion, is only appropriate in non-competitive markets, where players don't have a choice of facilities to choose and games to play.


Brent, I guess my remarks on hold were mainly in connection with management using it as a key performance metric. While perhaps a useful stat, I do think it is much 'over-used' for those purposes. Just ask yourself why the first game open and last game closed in a property might be a double-deck BJ game with an average hold % of 10-12% ... when there are poker and other games on the floor that average 2+ that number?

And for security, alert floor observation and surveillance, coupled with the standard deviation as applied to the win/loss, should provide the needed constraints and red flags.

Agreed that the hold % might be one indicator of the "feel" of the game ... that over time it 'may' signal whether a game is too strong or too loose ... and also agreed that there does seem to be a 'sweet' spot for various types of games. But as a performance measure, IMO it's a poor substitute for the table win because, standing alone, it completely ignores how much play the game is getting. All I'm saying is that comparing this game to that game, the metric to use is the win/per comparable period - hour, day, shift, etc.
"Success consists of going from failure to failure without loss of enthusiasm." -- Winston Churchill
Lucky
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March 10th, 2015 at 7:49:41 PM permalink
... in the end, we have to live with how things are, regardless of our individual opinions. Rightly or wrongly, the 'hold' seems to be an important stat that's used extensively in the industry. So in my case, I, like you, have to deal with the reality of having to justify, defend, or graciously accept credit for the hold calculation as it relates to our game(s).
"Success consists of going from failure to failure without loss of enthusiasm." -- Winston Churchill
mrsuit31
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March 10th, 2015 at 7:59:07 PM permalink
Quote: Lucky

Brent, I guess my remarks on hold were mainly in connection with management using it as a key performance metric. While perhaps a useful stat, I do think it is much 'over-used' for those purposes. Just ask yourself why the first game open and last game closed in a property might be a double-deck BJ game with an average hold % of 10-12% ... when there are poker and other games on the floor that average 2+ that number?

And for security, alert floor observation and surveillance, coupled with the standard deviation as applied to the win/loss, should provide the needed constraints and red flags.

Agreed that the hold % might be one indicator of the "feel" of the game ... that over time it 'may' signal whether a game is too strong or too loose ... and also agreed that there does seem to be a 'sweet' spot for various types of games. But as a performance measure, IMO it's a poor substitute for the table win because, standing alone, it completely ignores how much play the game is getting. All I'm saying is that comparing this game to that game, the metric to use is the win/per comparable period - hour, day, shift, etc.



I agree it's overused. I just said I understand its value. I didn't say it should stand alone ;-). Everything should be considered...
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mrsuit31
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March 24th, 2015 at 6:23:03 PM permalink
Quote: Zcore13

Congrats! Unless it's dealing as fast as blackjack, that hold number is probably going to have to climb, but it sounds like it may if you had a few large payouts early on.

I don't even look at hold percentage until 90 days.

ZCore13



After 60 days, we are still maintaining the same level of play and have generated a 26.31% hold to date.
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Zcore13
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March 24th, 2015 at 6:46:12 PM permalink
Quote: mrsuit31

After 60 days, we are still maintaining the same level of play and have generated a 26.31% hold to date.



That's a nice number.

On the Hold subject. Hold is a very important statistic for internal comparisons. I really can't compare my hold numbers to numbers from other casinos in other Cities/States. Everyplace is different. Different customers, different play habits, different average buy-ins, etc. But when comparing to other games in my own Pit, it does provide important information to compare.

Is it the only number to look at? Of course not. I'll take a higher drop, lower hold, higher win any day. But when comparing space on your floor it is a key statistic to compare against previous and current installations.


ZCore13
I am an employee of a Casino. Former Table Games Director,, current Pit Supervisor. All the personal opinions I post are my own and do not represent the opinions of the Casino or Tribe that I work for.
Paradigm
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March 24th, 2015 at 9:53:51 PM permalink
Quote: mrsuit31

After 60 days, we are still maintaining the same level of play and have generated a 26.31% hold to date.


Nice!!
mrsuit31
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March 25th, 2015 at 4:30:32 AM permalink
Thanks guys. I will hopefully have some good news to share this week...
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mrsuit31
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April 18th, 2015 at 4:02:54 PM permalink
Hi All,

Money$uit 31 has officially passed it initial trial and will be remaining on the floor. We are now hoping to expand to the surrounding area as well as enter a number of new jurisdictions.

The game has maintained its high level of play throughout the initial 3 months and the casino could not be happier with its performance.

Hopefully we will continue to expand so all of you who have followed it to this point can get to play it in the near future.

For all those that have helped along the way, Thank You!

Still a long way to go but certainly on the right track.
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Paradigm
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April 18th, 2015 at 4:25:51 PM permalink
That's a big milestone Brent!! Focus on this positive endorsement that the game is working at its current install.......much easier to get install #2 with a performing game in place. Continued Good Luck!
DJTeddyBear
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April 18th, 2015 at 4:40:29 PM permalink
Quote: mrsuit31


Money$uit 31 has officially passed it initial trial and will be remaining on the floor. We are now hoping to expand to the surrounding area as well as enter a number of new jurisdictions.


Mazel Tov!
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ ————————————————————————————————————— Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
1BB
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April 18th, 2015 at 4:52:56 PM permalink
Quote: mrsuit31

Thanks guys. I will hopefully have some good news to share this week...



I know you can't hear me but I'm cheering you on!
Many people, especially ignorant people, want to punish you for speaking the truth. - Mahatma Ghandi
Ibeatyouraces
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April 18th, 2015 at 5:07:28 PM permalink
I think the total population of that area of Michigan is less than 100. I think the prison near there has more inmates lol.
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
mrsuit31
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April 18th, 2015 at 5:53:42 PM permalink
Thank you guys. Hopefully we'll move to another facility very soon.
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MrCasinoGames
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April 18th, 2015 at 9:32:03 PM permalink
Congrats! Brent.
Stephen Au-Yeung (Legend of New Table Games®) NewTableGames.com
beachbumbabs
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April 19th, 2015 at 7:56:46 AM permalink
Congratulations, Brent! Your singularity is about to be cardinalized!
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
UCivan
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April 19th, 2015 at 8:26:23 AM permalink
Quote: beachbumbabs

Your singularity is about to be cardinalized!

Bravo, that's how it's done!!!
mrsuit31
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April 19th, 2015 at 9:47:44 AM permalink
Thank you guys! Like I said, I hope to have additional good news soon in regard to expansion. I appreciate all of the kind words, truly.
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Lucky
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April 19th, 2015 at 12:36:08 PM permalink
Congrats, Brent, and best wishes for the continued success of Moneysuit31!
"Success consists of going from failure to failure without loss of enthusiasm." -- Winston Churchill
mrsuit31
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April 19th, 2015 at 2:38:47 PM permalink
Quote: Lucky

Congrats, Brent, and best wishes for the continued success of Moneysuit31!



Thank you Harry.
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mrsuit31
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April 21st, 2015 at 8:40:28 AM permalink
Most recent comparative data is in. The game is still the highest dropping carnival game on the floor, generating a 23% hold to date. This past month of play we have actually surpassed the drop of roulette.
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Romes
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April 21st, 2015 at 9:09:28 AM permalink
Quote: mrsuit31

Hi All,

Money$uit 31 has officially passed it initial trial and will be remaining on the floor. We are now hoping to expand to the surrounding area as well as enter a number of new jurisdictions.

The game has maintained its high level of play throughout the initial 3 months and the casino could not be happier with its performance.

Hopefully we will continue to expand so all of you who have followed it to this point can get to play it in the near future.

For all those that have helped along the way, Thank You!

Still a long way to go but certainly on the right track.


Congrats for certain on the successful trial. There's your cornerstone, now build the mansion =). Good luck moving forward. Be sure that if it comes available near us my dad and brother will have to have some fun and play it!
Playing it correctly means you've already won.
mrsuit31
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April 21st, 2015 at 11:14:39 AM permalink
Quote: Romes

Congrats for certain on the successful trial. There's your cornerstone, now build the mansion =). Good luck moving forward. Be sure that if it comes available near us my dad and brother will have to have some fun and play it!



Thanks romes, I will certainly do my best!
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mrsuit31
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June 25th, 2015 at 11:39:14 AM permalink
Five full months in and Money$uit 31 is still the highest dropping carnival game on the floor at the Lac Vieux Desert Casino. The game to date has maintained a 16.28% hold. The game is outdropping the next best carnival game by 40%.
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Paigowdan
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June 25th, 2015 at 1:00:12 PM permalink
Quote: mrsuit31

Five full months in and Money$uit 31 is still the highest dropping carnival game on the floor at the Lac Vieux Desert Casino. The game to date has maintained a 16.28% hold. The game is outdropping the next best carnival game by 40%.



Brent, the hold seems to be the draw - the game "feels good" because you don't get creamed.

So many card rooms demand a 38% hold, but to get action on a game, there has to be give-back to get a following.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
mrsuit31
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June 25th, 2015 at 3:54:45 PM permalink
Quote: Paigowdan

Brent, the hold seems to be the draw - the game "feels good" because you don't get creamed.

So many card rooms demand a 38% hold, but to get action on a game, there has to be give-back to get a following.



Players are definitely enjoying the game experience. We have seen a 25% increase in drop since starting off. We also see the Hold fluctuating between 16-26%. However, this is obviously from a small sample set, so that Hold will/should level off around 23-24% at years end...

I couldn't be happier with the drop totals.
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Paradigm
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June 25th, 2015 at 4:17:35 PM permalink
I think the low 20%'s is where the game will settle in at as well. With a 2.24% HE on the base game and a slightly higher HE on the side bet, the game should be holding north of 20%......5 months will definitely give you a sense of how the players like the game based on the drop totals, which appear to be growing and that's good!

But I recall this is a relatively small property so you are going to need more like 9-12 months of data/dollar volume "through the mechanism" to get a true sense of how the game will perform long term from a hold perspective.

Good work Brent.......keep it pluggin' along!!!
mrsuit31
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June 25th, 2015 at 4:56:44 PM permalink
Quote: Paradigm

I think the low 20%'s is where the game will settle in at as well. With a 2.24% HE on the base game and a slightly higher HE on the side bet, the game should be holding north of 20%......5 months will definitely give you a sense of how the players like the game based on the drop totals, which appear to be growing and that's good!

But I recall this is a relatively small property so you are going to need more like 9-12 months of data/dollar volume "through the mechanism" to get a true sense of how the game will perform long term from a hold perspective.

Good work Brent.......keep it pluggin' along!!!



Thanks Mike! I agree we definitely need some more time to see where the hold ends up.

As long as the Drop keeps increasing, I'm happy!
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beachbumbabs
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June 26th, 2015 at 10:33:38 PM permalink
Fantastic that the drop is increasing, Brent! Really glad to hear it's going well.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
mrsuit31
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June 27th, 2015 at 7:51:42 AM permalink
Quote: beachbumbabs

Fantastic that the drop is increasing, Brent! Really glad to hear it's going well.



Thank you Babs!
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mrsuit31
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July 1st, 2015 at 9:40:48 AM permalink
Update for the month of June. The game has increased its monthly drop by over double since launching in January.
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