Paigowdan
Paigowdan
Joined: Apr 28, 2010
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May 26th, 2013 at 4:22:48 PM permalink
Quote: Boz

Not being on the casino or design end, I wonder how hard it is to get a game like this into a major casino with such a small HE? As a player it is nice to see this, but it seems most players are just as likely to play a 20 percent HE game. So does it come down to the "fun" for lack of a better word factor?



It's easy - IF the game is GREAT, is un-"AP-able", and it has a positive house edge so that it proves itself to have a decent hold, - and based on that positive edge.

Some games have INDEED been removed because it either lost or didn't hold enough, and/or is countable or fraud-able. For that matter, if the house edge is too high, the players feel the burn out it gives, and abandon the game. The right house edge is a balancing act.

This is a good reason why the "Lucky Stiff" guys had a fine mathematician (gaming expert CRM) examine and carry out an additional game protection/AP report.

For an even money type main bet, 2% is adequate. For a 10:1 side bet, 4% is adequate. For a side bet with higher and larger pay table, 7% is par.

Believe me, if a game can get slammed, or it slams the players - it goes out the door. At my company, we rejected signing games that were vulnerable to AP play or losses, and knew it.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
Boz
Boz
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May 26th, 2013 at 4:49:50 PM permalink
Thanks Dan, that helps. Appreciate the feedback from your side to a players side.
Lucky
Lucky
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May 26th, 2013 at 4:58:10 PM permalink
Quote: Boz

Not being on the casino or design end, I wonder how hard it is to get a game like this into a major casino with such a small HE? As a player it is nice to see this, but it seems most players are just as likely to play a 20 percent HE game. So does it come down to the "fun" for lack of a better word factor?



Paigowdan's explanation is excellent. Additionally, in some markets players are not given much of a choice on BJ side bets, so they play what is offered. The theory behind the Lucky Stiff bet is that it will be appealing to players because of its relatively low edge, high qualification rate, and players' affinity for turning a good hand out of a bad one (stiff), and that consequently they will participate at a much greater rate than they do on competing side bets. If the theory proves correct, then the casino will realize a more attractive overall return on the BJ table with Lucky Stiff than the BJ table with the high edge top heavy side bet.
"Success consists of going from failure to failure without loss of enthusiasm." -- Winston Churchill
Switch
Switch
Joined: Apr 29, 2010
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May 26th, 2013 at 6:03:31 PM permalink
I like the combination of having a 5/1 payout with a 43% involvement rate. I think that players will feel that they have lots of chances to try and win the 5/1 payout.

Regarding vulnerability then I would guess that 6's, 7's and 8's are obviously good cards to have left in the shoe as any combination of these cards qualify you and they are also generally good cards to have if you are drawing on 12-15. Aces would be poor cards to have in despite the instant 1/1 win for a Blackjack - I'm guessing that 10's would not be very good either as you are more likely to bust on a stiff total.

If there is no real threat of vulnerability then the 4% edge is good IMO. I also like the simplicity of the bet.

The only slight negative factor that I can envisage is that players who bet this have to hope for a stiff hand if they are to be in with a chance of winning. Granted that a Blackjack pays out but they will sort of be betting against their 'Blackjack' wager and looking for a 12-16 rather than a 19, 20 , 9, 10, 11 sort of hand. It could be looked at as a type of Insurance against being dealt a bad hand but this is why it's so important that Paradigm has got a placement in order to gauge the players' reaction to the wager.
Paigowdan
Paigowdan
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May 26th, 2013 at 6:05:19 PM permalink
In this regard, the Lucky Stiff side bet makes it so that there are less "bad hands" in Blackjack with this bet in action. A good feel to give for the player, me thinks. Slightly affects strategy, though.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
Lucky
Lucky
Joined: Nov 6, 2009
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May 26th, 2013 at 6:40:44 PM permalink
True, Switch, that players are betting against receiving the best initial starting hands.

Also true, Paigowdan, that the bet serves as a 'hedge' against the high frequency poor starting hands that they receive (starting stiff hands occur 38.5% of the time).

The question, then, is the motivation to hedge stronger or weaker than the aversion to betting against a strong beginning hand.

As you say, Switch, the market will have a chance to answer this question now that Paradigm has secured placement activity in WA.
"Success consists of going from failure to failure without loss of enthusiasm." -- Winston Churchill
McDemon
McDemon
Joined: May 20, 2013
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May 27th, 2013 at 5:03:55 AM permalink
Quote: Boz

Not being on the casino or design end, I wonder how hard it is to get a game like this into a major casino with such a small HE? As a player it is nice to see this, but it seems most players are just as likely to play a 20 percent HE game. So does it come down to the "fun" for lack of a better word factor?



I can't think of any established casino game with a House edge of 20%, you must mean "house hold" which is not quite the same thing. Switch Match is 1.7% HE but the casino hold is around 20 to 23%.
Controversial sometimes, brutally honest..Always
Lucky
Lucky
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May 27th, 2013 at 7:02:13 AM permalink
Quote: McDemon

I can't think of any established casino game with a House edge of 20%, you must mean "house hold" which is not quite the same thing. Switch Match is 1.7% HE but the casino hold is around 20 to 23%.

I think Boz was referring to BJ side bets rather than base casino games. One example of a side bet with a 20%+ edge is Lucky Ladies (24.71%), which is on a multitude of tables industry-wide. Its house edge is stratospheric because of its high variance pay structure and vulnerability to card counting.
"Success consists of going from failure to failure without loss of enthusiasm." -- Winston Churchill
Buzzard
Buzzard
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May 27th, 2013 at 1:51:40 PM permalink
" As you say, Switch, the market will have a chance to answer this question now that Paradigm has secured placement activity in WA. "

CONGRATULATIONS "young" man. And every market is so damn different. Buffalo Bust Bonus rules Colorado, Switch is dead in
Colorado, only 3 3CP games in Blackhawk, and 1 Let It Die not yet buried. Yet Ameristar, which has 40% of the market in Blackhawk,
has no Buffalo Bust bonus, but 6 of the 20 tables are Streak Blackjack.

Best wishes, Lucky

I’ve always liked the definition of luck offered by Seneca, who wrote, just before not very efficiently killing himself, that “Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity.”
Shed not for her the bitter tear Nor give the heart to vain regret Tis but the casket that lies here, The gem that filled it Sparkles yet
odiousgambit
odiousgambit 
Joined: Nov 9, 2009
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May 27th, 2013 at 2:03:46 PM permalink
Quote: Buzzard

I’ve always liked the definition of luck offered by Seneca, who wrote, just before not very efficiently killing himself, that “Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity.”



Yep, Buzzard, and whenever I get lucky with the dice I figure this is what happened! [g]

That quote is much repeated in athletic team locker-rooms btw
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!” She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder

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