etablegames
etablegames
Joined: Mar 17, 2011
  • Threads: 15
  • Posts: 80
June 15th, 2012 at 12:32:36 PM permalink
Quote: Paradigm

Interesting concept in "House Money" particularly the option to add to the main bet. I believe in the "Shortie" BJ side bet (which I think was created by one of the presenters at next weeks SHFL Focus Group, he is bringing a different game to exhibit), you were required to add the winnings to your main bet. It was the one thing I didn't like about the Shortie bet as you essentially had to win twice to get paid, but you got paid a good amount due to the multiplier effect. That multiplier effect is present in "House Money" as well, but it sounds like you have the option to use it or not.

You might have mistaken Shortie side bet. For the Shortie side bet, you do not have to add the "winnings" to your main bet. You just have to keep the original side bet on the table and continue playing the game of 21 - all Blackjacks have been resolved by now.

When your first 2 cards score 9 or lower, a Shortie, you get 3 to 1. Then the side bet wager stays as part of the overall wager for the 21 game. If you win the 21 game, the main bet gets even money, but the side wager gets 2 to 1. In other words, the first payout is made because you're lucky. The 2nd payout is made because you're skillful in blackjack. In sum, being "lucky and skillful" gets a total of 5 to 1, being "lucky and OK (21 hand pushes)" gets 3 to 1, being "lucky and normal (21 hand loses)" gets 2 to 1 - every Shortie is paid. The house edge is 5-7%, hit rate 21%. We also have a version that defines Shortie as 8 or lower. The hit rate is 16%. Thanks.
Paradigm
Paradigm
Joined: Feb 24, 2011
  • Threads: 42
  • Posts: 2225
June 15th, 2012 at 1:23:32 PM permalink
My apologies etablegames.....I appear to have been confused on the Shortie bet.

To confirm my understanding based on the above, if you lose your main BJ hand but had a Shortie after your first two cards are dealt (i.e. your first two cards are less than 9), then your Shortie is paid 3 to 1 and you get to keep the 3 to 1 payout even if your main BJ Hand loses (but you will lose the original Shortie bet if your main BJ bet loses)?

I think that is right as I just went back and looked at your video....not sure why I was confused on the facts. Again, I apologize for posting misinformation and appreciate you correcting it.

The Shortie Bet looks much more attractive to me now that I fully understand the concept.
etablegames
etablegames
Joined: Mar 17, 2011
  • Threads: 15
  • Posts: 80
June 15th, 2012 at 1:35:09 PM permalink
Quote: Paradigm

To confirm my understanding based on the above, if you lose your main BJ hand but had a Shortie after your first two cards are dealt (i.e. your first two cards are less than 9), then your Shortie is paid 3 to 1 and you get to keep the 3 to 1 payout even if your main BJ Hand loses (but you will lose the original Shortie bet if your main BJ bet loses)?

I think that is right as I just went back and looked at your video....not sure why I was confused on the facts. Again, I apologize for posting misinformation and appreciate you correcting it.

The Shortie Bet looks much more attractive to me now that I fully understand the concept.

Correct. If your first 2 cards score a total of 9 or lower, the side bet is paid and the payout to the player is collected right way (only the payout, not the original wager) and the original bet stays in the play of the main game. Thanks.

BTW, I did present 2 Way Blackjack in SHFL-2 and have received good feedback. This new game is trying to make Blackjack less or non-boring. But, most evaluators think the game is too complicated for casual players.
doubleluck
doubleluck
Joined: Jun 16, 2012
  • Threads: 3
  • Posts: 229
June 16th, 2012 at 9:17:49 AM permalink
If the HE is 5% with a hit rate of 23%, then where is the other 18% being absorbed? I understand the edge with respect to the side bet, but I'm interested in finding out how this feature affects the standard game of blackjack? It appears as though the core element of House Money, is to simply allowing a player the option to cap his/her bet after seeing the first two cards, in certain situations, -- unless I'm totally missing something. If this is the case, this feature somehow presents an advantage to the house, then why wouldn't a casino simply allow that method of play right now ? Why don't casinos already allow players to cap bets in the standard game of blackjack if it would present an advantage to the house anyway? As a player, I find House Money to be extremely attractive but it seems as if casinos would get taken to the cleaners on the core game of blackjack. Please help me understand what I'm missing. Thanks!
miplet
miplet
Joined: Dec 1, 2009
  • Threads: 5
  • Posts: 1957
June 16th, 2012 at 9:52:38 AM permalink
Quote: doubleluck

If the HE is 5% with a hit rate of 23%, then where is the other 18% being absorbed? I understand the edge with respect to the side bet, but I'm interested in finding out how this feature affects the standard game of blackjack? It appears as though the core element of House Money, is to simply allowing a player the option to cap his/her bet after seeing the first two cards, in certain situations, -- unless I'm totally missing something. If this is the case, this feature somehow presents an advantage to the house, then why wouldn't a casino simply allow that method of play right now ? Why don't casinos already allow players to cap bets in the standard game of blackjack if it would present an advantage to the house anyway? As a player, I find House Money to be extremely attractive but it seems as if casinos would get taken to the cleaners on the core game of blackjack. Please help me understand what I'm missing. Thanks!


If there were no option to add winning side bets to the main wager, the side bet would have a house edge of about %26. The 5% house edge assumes the player knows when to press their main bet and when to keep it.
“Man Babes” #AxelFabulous
P90
P90
Joined: Jan 8, 2011
  • Threads: 12
  • Posts: 1703
June 16th, 2012 at 10:15:16 AM permalink
Quote: miplet

If there were no option to add winning side bets to the main wager, the side bet would have a house edge of about %26. The 5% house edge assumes the player knows when to press their main bet and when to keep it.


And that's permitted, no issues? I get the idea, but wasn't sure if NGC takes such tricks into account for max side bet HA.
Is there some limitation on the main:side bet ratio?
Resist ANFO Boston PRISM Stormfront IRA Freedom CIA Obama
doubleluck
doubleluck
Joined: Jun 16, 2012
  • Threads: 3
  • Posts: 229
June 16th, 2012 at 6:00:23 PM permalink
I fully understand this option lowers the HE to a reasonable percentage on the side-bet only. However, my true question is how does this "capping element" affect the game of blackjack itself? If the house were able to gain an advantage over the player by allowing them to wager more money, then why do casinos across the globe prohibit the practice of capping bets? Conversely, if capping bets somehow gives the house an advantage by allowing the player to wager more money and raise the average bet per hand, then why not simply allow players to do it now without having to pay a licensing fee for a proprietary game?
DJTeddyBear
DJTeddyBear
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
  • Threads: 183
  • Posts: 10396
June 16th, 2012 at 7:54:02 PM permalink
Quote: doubleluck

If the house were able to gain an advantage over the player by allowing them to wager more money, then why do casinos across the globe prohibit the practice of capping bets?


Because the two concepts are not mutually exclusive.

Let me put it this way: If you had a blackjack, would you cap your bet if allowed? Of course you would. How long would the casino last if they let you?

But if you had a 4 & 7 and the dealer showed a 6, would you cap your bet? Yep. But in this case, the rules dictate certain conditions. The "Cap" is only to double your bet, and you only get one card.

It's the same for House Money. Under this specific set of rules (making a high house edge side bet and using all or part of the proceeds to cap the bet) are you allowed to cap the bet.


It's all in the rules.
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ ————————————————————————————————————— Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
buzzpaff
buzzpaff
Joined: Mar 8, 2011
  • Threads: 112
  • Posts: 5328
June 16th, 2012 at 9:13:36 PM permalink
" It's the same for House Money. Under this specific set of rules (making a high house edge side bet and using all or part of the proceeds to cap the bet) are you allowed to cap the bet. "

This may not be allowed in jurisdictions where there is a limit on how much you can bet on a hand !
Pacman
Pacman
Joined: Dec 7, 2011
  • Threads: 10
  • Posts: 163
June 16th, 2012 at 11:41:38 PM permalink
Here is an overview of House Money Blackjack. (For those of you who attended SHFL Focus Group 1, this was the game we scratched at the last minute.)

1. Players make the optional House Money wager for any amount within table limits.
2. Players get two cards.
3. Players win on the following hands:

Ace-King Suited: 9 to 1
Straight Flush: 4 to 1
Pair: 3 to 1
Straight: 1 to 1

4. Players then have the option to collect the proceeds from the House Money bet or add them--or part of them--to their standard blackjack wager.
5. House rules for blackjack apply. Players may split, double-down, etc., just as they would on any other table.

Note: If the player gets AK or AK suited, he would add the proceeds to his blackjack wager and get paid 3 to 2 on the aggregate amount.

The house edge is 5% and the hit frequency is 24%.

House Money will soon (July or August) debut in the following markets: Nevada, California, Missouri, Kansas and Washington.

  • Jump to: