CrystalMath
CrystalMath
Joined: May 10, 2011
  • Threads: 8
  • Posts: 1720
May 15th, 2019 at 5:53:55 PM permalink
Can you play 5 coins without the STP and get the 4000 credit royal?
I heart Crystal Math.
GWAE
GWAE
Joined: Sep 20, 2013
  • Threads: 88
  • Posts: 8616
May 15th, 2019 at 6:21:56 PM permalink
Expect the worst and you will never be disappointed. I AM NOT PART OF GWAE RADIO SHOW
TomG
TomG
Joined: Sep 26, 2010
  • Threads: 9
  • Posts: 1652
Thanks for this post from:
Mission146
May 15th, 2019 at 6:29:57 PM permalink
Quote: Mission146

Quote: GaryJKoehler

Prob jacks or better in a Jacks or Better Joker game is 0.224515 and in a Kings or better game the prob Kings or better is 0.141348, so not quite doubled - more like 1.6 times.

Thank you very much! Can you or anyone offer a guess as to why that might be? I'm coming up blank. I would say lots of 2P and Trips that you would be getting anyway, but that's also true of holding KK and AA. Could it maybe have a lot to do with the joker as well as a J/Q and another suited Royal card...especially with the downgraded return on 4OaK? Is it because more two card Royals with high cards get held? One would think that would increase frequency of all high pairs.

I always like to start with the intuitive and I'm just not figuring it. Any ideas?



The biggest effect is ending up with a hand like 5-9-J-K-wild -- the pair of jacks doesn't register as a paying hand, while the pair of kings does
Mission146
Mission146
Joined: May 15, 2012
  • Threads: 118
  • Posts: 11743
May 15th, 2019 at 6:59:45 PM permalink
Quote: TomG

The biggest effect is ending up with a hand like 5-9-J-K-wild -- the pair of jacks doesn't register as a paying hand, while the pair of kings does



That's so obvious I am embarrassed right now! Thanks for the answer, though, my mind has been drifting while doing other stuff trying to figure this out!
Vultures can't be choosers.
rsactuary
rsactuary
Joined: Sep 6, 2014
  • Threads: 15
  • Posts: 1311
May 15th, 2019 at 7:37:53 PM permalink
96.87% return per VP.com app
royal
royal
Joined: May 15, 2019
  • Threads: 1
  • Posts: 4
Thanks for this post from:
Mission146
May 15th, 2019 at 9:22:04 PM permalink
Quote: Mission146

That's so obvious I am embarrassed right now! Thanks for the answer, though, my mind has been drifting while doing other stuff trying to figure this out!



Haha i overlooked that too. Duhhh

Quote: CrystalMath

Can you play 5 coins without the STP and get the 4000 credit royal?


No

Quote: rsactuary

96.87% return per app


I think thats Kings or better you're looking at, right?

Quote: GaryJKoehler

Assuming a SF pays 250, the base game (Joker poker Jacks) EV is 1.0492. Seems too good to be true (again, assuming the probs and multipliers are the same as the normal DSTP game.)


Do you have a link to a calculator that does joker poker jacks? I couldn't find one.

Thanks
CrystalMath
CrystalMath
Joined: May 10, 2011
  • Threads: 8
  • Posts: 1720
Thanks for this post from:
Mission146
May 15th, 2019 at 9:37:16 PM permalink
GaryJKoehler gave the correct return for the 5 coin game. It is 1.049158.

Because they force you to play the STP portion for 2 coins, I'm sure those multipliers are weighted such that your overall return is less than 100%.

I have no idea the average multiplier, but if it were 1.28, then you have about a 96% game.

I don't know of a commercial calculator to do this. I do casino math for a living and I've developed my own tools.
I heart Crystal Math.
RS
RS
Joined: Feb 11, 2014
  • Threads: 59
  • Posts: 8251
May 15th, 2019 at 9:59:03 PM permalink
If you have Video Poker for Winners, load up a game like JOB or BP. Click "Options" then "Change Paytable". There, you can mess around with the paytable and even add new hands (like specific full houses, EG: A-A-A-K-K can pay more, for instance), but you have to customize each hand and payout. To do that, you have to click "Edit Categories". If you go to a Joker Poker game, you'll notice the "Edit Categories" button is greyed out. After reading the tooltips or whatever it's called, you can see you're unable to create "new" hands in games that have wild cards. So VPW isn't going to help you in this case.


IMO -- based on what them other smart fellers are saying, it's a nice advantage that you can play straight through. I'd go play it, and take a mental note of which hands show up somewhat frequently that I'm not sure about. Many hands are going to probably be pretty obvious just using logic. Anyway, for the hands you're not sure about, I'd go home and do the math on them to figure out what the proper hold is. Oftentimes, you can do this while you're playing. It's easy to do when you're dealt a 5-card hold vs 4-card hold. Just add up all the possible results (48 cards worth) and divide by 48. If that number is above holding everything, then do the 4-card hold, otherwise do the 5-card hold. 3 card holds are a bit more tricky and can't really be done in your head unless you can do quickmafs.

Although one thing I'm not sure about is what would you do if you're dealt a joker and nothing obvious to hold. Do you still revert back to the Joker-7 hold? You now have an extra jack and queen that if you get them, will pay you money back (duh). According to hand analyzer on WOO, for FPJP, when dealt Joker, 2c, 4h, 8d, Ts, holding Joker,8 has a return of 1.475775 bets while Joker only is 1.428420 bets. The difference is 0.047355 bets or 3.2% from optimal. That'd lead me to believe that you should just hold the Joker by itself (in this JOB variant), but I really don't know.


Also -- is this game in the USA or in some foreign land? IIRC, Wizard said he found a game like this in Europe, although I think he said it was deuces wild JOB and not joker JOB. He said after a short while, it was rather evident the game was gaffed and not playing fairly. I would definitely pay attention to that.


Edit -- I didn't see this before. But if you can't bet 5 coins then to me it sounds like the DSTP part isn't going to play like it normally 'should'. Can you check the paytable/help menu and see what it says in there?
нет сговор. нет непроходимость. полный освобождение от ответственности.
GaryJKoehler
GaryJKoehler
Joined: Oct 22, 2015
  • Threads: 2
  • Posts: 118
May 16th, 2019 at 3:04:07 AM permalink
Quote: royal


Do you have a link to a calculator that does joker poker jacks? I couldn't find one.


At the risk of violating some forum rule, the PlayPerfect Pro+ Android and IOS app has such a calculator.
rsactuary
rsactuary
Joined: Sep 6, 2014
  • Threads: 15
  • Posts: 1311
Thanks for this post from:
Mission146
May 16th, 2019 at 7:12:01 AM permalink
Quote: royal

I think thats Kings or better you're looking at, right?


Do you have a link to a calculator that does joker poker jacks? I couldn't find one.

Thanks



The App shows Joker Poker single line Five Star Poker game with Double Super Times Pay. The option listed for 96.87% is 400/200/100/50/15/7/5/3/2/1/1. It doesn't define each level, but since it seems to match the paytable I"m guessing it's Jacks or Better.

I also have Gary's app, and I'll try and run it through that.

  • Jump to: