GaryJKoehler
GaryJKoehler
Joined: Oct 22, 2015
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ksdjdj
January 11th, 2019 at 9:23:07 AM permalink
You can try the game for yourself:
https://www.tomhorngaming.com/games/double-poker/
beachbumbabs
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beachbumbabs
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ksdjdj
January 11th, 2019 at 9:31:46 AM permalink
The designer claims the RTP is 96.22% with high volatility.

Demo does not work on mobile.
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GaryJKoehler
GaryJKoehler
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ksdjdj
January 11th, 2019 at 9:39:49 AM permalink
I noticed they say:

"This game comes with several exciting twists. The player can choose whether to play with classic cards, or with coloured numbers or torpedoes. Additionally, players can select a ´Magic number´, for each card in a winning hand with the same value as their magic number, the win is doubled. The Joker helps you win the Jackpot of 2,500 credits by completing a Five of a kind combination when playing with five coins."

This makes no sense since the Joker should double the jackpot to 5,000 (or 40,000 if 5K of your special pip).

Also, they give an RTP of 96.22%.

That looks reasonable given how the game ACTUALLY plays-out, but certainly not if it had a fair deal/draw. I'm guessing they are treating this like a slot machine (in the US, a Class II video poker machine).
FCBLComish
FCBLComish
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January 11th, 2019 at 8:39:14 PM permalink
Am I the only one who sees this.....


If you keep "Magic" cards, you are decreasing your chance of hitting many of the bigger hands.

Drawing 2 to AAT costs a lot of EV compared to drawing 3 to AA.

There is your house edge.
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ksdjdj
ksdjdj
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January 11th, 2019 at 9:34:29 PM permalink
Quote: FCBLComish

Am I the only one who sees this.....


If you keep "Magic" cards, you are decreasing your chance of hitting many of the bigger hands.

Drawing 2 to AAT costs a lot of EV compared to drawing 3 to AA.

There is your house edge.



Thanks for the post

If this played like a fair VP game, you would be right about the 'chances' ,but not always right for the 'expected value', some hands it is better to keep the magic card and others it is not, see below:

I was playing a hybrid strategy (may not be perfect or even close to perfect strategy)

My hybrid strategy was: play Joker Poker kings + basic strategy (amended for JoB) with amendments for the following

Scenario 1: on the initial deal you are dealt two pair
Normally***, you would discard 1 card and hope for a full house
Magic card exceptions***: If I had 1 magic card, I would keep all 5 cards.

***: For this game the expected return is normally about 3.35... for two pair dealt playing correct basic strategy, but if you kept all 5 cards when you had 1 magic card, your expected return would be 4.00 (since your expected return is reduced to 2 for keeping the two pair, but then multiplied by 2 for having 1 magic card)

Scenario 2: on the initial deal you are dealt a pair of Aces
Normally^^^, you would discard 3 cards and hope to improve the pair.
Magic card exceptions^^^: If I had 1 magic card, I would keep the pair and the magic card.

^^^: For this game the expected return is normally about 1.87... for a pair of Aces dealt playing correct basic strategy, but if you kept the pair and the magic card, your expected return would be at least 3.20... (since your expected return is reduced to about1.60... for keeping the magic card, but then that figure is multiplied by 2 for having 1 magic card)

Scenario 3: you have Kh 10d 8c 5s 2c
normally^*^: you would only keep the K,
Magic card exceptions^*^ If I had 1 magic card, I would keep the K and the magic card.

^*^: For this game the expected return is normally about 0.5998... for the 'K 10 8 5 2' hand dealt playing correct basic strategy, but if you kept the K and the magic card, your expected return would be at least 0.926... (since your expected return is reduced to about 0.463... for keeping the magic card, but then that figure is multiplied by 2 for having 1 magic card)

one example of correct strategy in discarding a magic card would be: when you had 3 to a straight flush zero 'skip' or one 'skip' eg 5h 6h 7h (0 'skip') or 5h 6h 8h (1 'skip') plus 10d Ac, you would go for the straight flush in those sorts of cases

There are other examples of when to discard the magic card, but all seem to be to do with high chance flush and straight draws, eg. 4 to a flush on the first deal.

for hand analysis I used the website below:

https://wizardofodds.com/games/video-poker/hand-analyzer/

I think* the numbers above are right, but the grammar and spelling hasn't been checked
think*: if the numbers are not right, then it was my fault somewhere along the way, as the hand-analyzer used is solid according to people a lot smarter than myself at mathematical programming.

----------
Since I think GaryJ is right that this game is no good because It plays like a 'slot machine' to make the RTP about 96% (I won't be demo-play testing it anymore since it is now a waste of time for an AP player)

Before giving up on the game completely, i tested out the 'game plays like a slot' theory, and for every paying single pair hand that I also had the magic number for I would purposely discard the magic card and the other two garbage cards (every time i did that i would get two pair for that hand) this was observed at least 10 times during the test.
What are the odds for that if this was a 'fairly dealt' game? (i can't remember how many hands for that round of demo-play i played, so this question might not be able to be answered very well, if at all)

Lastly, even though i never got a flush or straight on the 2nd deal(as stated earlier in the thread), I did get about 5 flushes on the initial deal and either 0 or 1 straight on the initial deal as well, out of about 2400 hands (before the last test above)
-----------

once again thanks for the post
Last edited by: ksdjdj on Jan 12, 2019
tringlomane
tringlomane
Joined: Aug 25, 2012
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ksdjdj
January 11th, 2019 at 9:39:23 PM permalink
Looks pretty clear that "Vegas Style" VP rules don't apply to this game unfortunately.
GaryJKoehler
GaryJKoehler
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ksdjdj
January 12th, 2019 at 10:12:56 AM permalink
Quote: ksdjdj

Before giving up on the game completely, i tested out the 'game plays like a slot' theory, and for every paying single pair hand that I also had the magic number for I would purposely discard the magic card and the other two garbage cards (every time i did that i would get two pair for that hand) this was observed at least 10 times during the test.


Same here except I got a 2-pair OR BETTER (like 3 of a kind).

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