Interested in Video Poker Advantage Play - What type of bankroll do you need and where do I start?

Quote: stabworld

Thanks for the feedback everyone. Ok, so I feel better in the fact I will get paid.

**side note, I would not attempt this in a casino I have been trespassed on.

If they don't pay you, and they don't shoot you, I'd ask for my bet back ;-)

Quote: sabre

Yeah, make sure when they refuse to pay you and have you arrested for fraud that you tell them a few people on the interwebs told you it might be OK to play on someone else's card.

you know sabre, you were a pain in my ass 2 years ago when I started my first thread on this site - and you remain a pain in my ass still today with your sarcastic, condescending comments. If you have nothing constructive to contribute, please refrain from posting on my threads. Thanks...

I hit one last year on my wife's card here in Las Vegas. Told the attendant "I was playing on my wife's card, Is that going to be ok?" He said yeah and it was, tipped double my usual. Still felt like he was looking at me skeptically after that though. Tread lightly here. You should avoid the possibility if you can.

Quote: stabworld

Ok, this thread been in stasis mode for about 8 months now. I put off Advantage Play in Video Poker up until now. I bought a few books, been practicing perfect optimal play on JOB 9/6 with some crappy free stuff on the internet, but intend to buy Bob Dancer's poker for winners software to practice some more before I go all out in the casino's. (little disappointed that the JOB is not available on his 3 day free trial).

I do have a question for anybody that may shed some light on this situation or may have experienced it themselves.

My question is:

If you hit a royal while playing under another person's players card, can the casino refuse to pay you out?

Assuming the worst case scenario:

1. you are a man using a woman's card with a different last name as you, (so its evident its not your wife's card),
2. your royal payout requires you to pay tax,
3. you are more than willing to give your real id for tax purposes,
4. however, you have been identified as an advantage player in that particular casino (card counting BJ), with your comp account frozen, and it's pretty clear you are attempting to play under another person's name to get around this restrictive play and generate casino comps (slot play, free play, etc.) (this is assuming they will actually check to see if you are an advantage player) I don't know if this is standard procedure when having to payout a royal on video poker.

I can give you some of my own personal experiences...

I was on this crazy play at the palms where some outside company was funding this promo. The promo was only good on my girlfriends card at the time. I forgot the exact numbers but it was something like 3% back and only for the weekend on reels only but No Limit on how many points you could earn! At that time you could pull the card out and it would hold the session. I had 5 machines rolling and sometimes when my friend came over I was rolling ten on the blazing sevens. So most of this was done in the evening and all night on graveyard. I had no problems when I signed for the jackpots. On the last day I was pushing it a bit hard by myself on only two machines since they were both over 1300 and I was getting tired. I had already put in over 100k in action. Anyways, this lady comes up to me and says hello and who is Cindy?? I said thats my Wife. She takes my cards and goes away for awhile and comes back and tells me I can't play on her card and if we combine our cards that it is ok after that. No biggy really but she called accounting and tried to move all of the points I earned on Cindy's card over to my card but they said that they couldn't.

So on Monday we went back and sure enough over 4k of freeplay was on Cindy's card and we took it off on the quarter 10 play JoBs.

A couple years later at the Palms they sent my Uncle and me some offer of lose so much money and get 800 back in free play the next day. So I played the 50 play 8/5 bonus and took out my card when I flopped winning hands and basically beat them out of 3200 on that play. If your paying attention you'll realize they changed the way the card works. For some years it would hold the session when pulled out and they changed it for a few years to not hold the session. I've seen it change back and forth a couple of times in the last 10 years or so.

Many times I have hit Royals with other peoples card in the machines which usually wasn't a problem. Recently in the last few years they have been cracking down on it more so basically you kinda need to know what casinos care and what casinos don't care. Usually Graveyard is safer but as I said they are more aware of this now compared to years in the past.

I guess for the last year or so people have been playing these promos where you can get all sorts of multipliers on certain days at different casinos on certain days. I know some people who have 20 cards and keep swiping till they get the 5% advantage. I am not advising you do this but I am just saying that you have to be more careful today compared to the older days. This is all in Vegas and this town is getting tighter and tighter.

EDIT:

One more story that I wanted to share that I forgot. It was about 2 years ago and I was going through Sams Town. Seen a Promo that said on Tuesdays they would give you double Free Play for whatever points you had. Ok I thought thats pretty good. So we go over to a few Boyd Properties after making sure you could earn the points at any property and cash in later at Sams Town. So we put a ton of points on my friends mothers card and my uncles card since you could get senior days at the time giving you 7x points which obviously is a 1.4% hammer if you cash out on the certain day at Sams Town. I ended up hitting one 2 dollar royal for 8k and they asked me if I had my card in when they paid me and I said No and they said oh thats weird but continued with the Congrats and Good Luck speech as we went off playing some other high 99% game. Needless to say after the first cash out Sams Town had a big sign in front of the Players Card Club saying that the Prom was canceled until further notice... lol! As if they were going to put it back on at a later date. Too bad too since it would of been nice to play it for another 3 weeks.

Ok, so after 40 hours and 25,000 hands of $1 JOB 9/6 - I hit 3 royals and 4 straight flushes. I'm up over 9k (not including what I should be receiving in mailers/free play). I have been extremely fortunate up into this point, when your suppose to average a royal every 40,000 hands and a straight flush every 10,000 hands. I was using another players card - however I used my own I.D. when the attendant came by with the hand pay and tax form. No issues there.

I was wondering - its' going to suck at the end of the year - when I have to pay taxes on these 12k worth of royals. When the attendant asks for your SSN - what if you just gave a made up SSN ? I didn't do this (as I gave my correct SSN) - but what if somebody were to just give the wrong SSN? What would be a consequence here? I would assume the following - they would cancel or revoke whatever casino players card you were playing on. But - other than that - what can they really do? I mean they already payed you - and you have walked out the casino. I'm thinking as long as they have your real name from your real id - they can still probably give that to the IRS - and the IRS can still know who you are anyway.

Thoughts? / feedback?

I mostly played single line $1 JoB, but mixed it up a little with triple play draw poker (JOB $1) which is actually $15 a hand. I was wondering how much more does playing a triple play $1 ($15 per hand) affect your variance/risk of ruin/ and bankroll needed? I am currently bankrolled properly for the single line $1 JOB 9/6 - but was wondering is playing the triple line JOB 9/6 $1 ($15 per hand) ok on the same bankroll? I know it is 3X as much per hand - but the fact that you are getting 3 different results per starting hand - might even out variance wise - to a $5 per bet hand on a single line?

Anybody, have any knowledge on this?

Hopefully, the bankroll needed is the same for the triple play at the same denomination- because I find it more fun - drawing to three hands instead of 1 - not too mention, you can get more coin in per hour through the machine.

Quote: stabworld

Ok, so after 40 hours and 25,000 hands of $1 JOB 9/6 - I hit 3 royals and 4 straight flushes. I'm up over 9k (not including what I should be receiving in mailers/free play). I have been extremely fortunate up into this point, when your suppose to average a royal every 40,000 hands and a straight flush every 10,000 hands. I was using another players card - however I used my own I.D. when the attendant came by with the hand pay and tax form. No issues there.

I was wondering - its' going to suck at the end of the year - when I have to pay taxes on these 12k worth of royals. When the attendant asks for your SSN - what if you just gave a made up SSN ? I didn't do this (as I gave my correct SSN) - but what if somebody were to just give the wrong SSN? What would be a consequence here? I would assume the following - they would cancel or revoke whatever casino players card you were playing on. But - other than that - what can they really do? I mean they already payed you - and you have walked out the casino. I'm thinking as long as they have your real name from your real id - they can still probably give that to the IRS - and the IRS can still know who you are anyway.

Thoughts? / feedback?

Well, since it cost you $125K coin-in (I'm assuming you're playing $5/hand) to earn that 12K in w2g's, I don't know why you don't just claim your losses up to the amount of your known winnings.

Don't pay taxes on your winnings - deduct your losses.

Quote: teddys

Don't pay taxes on your winnings - deduct your losses.

Track wins and losses. Write it down when it happens. Loss or win, it get's trickier later. Don't pay taxes if you can 'show' offsetting loses. Get's complicated in a hurry. Trying to come back from losses is the hardest situation. Depending on your tax bracket, you gotta win maybe $3 dollars this year for every $2 you lost last year. Not an easy task. I'm just talking 'bout getting even. You gonna be happy with even?

Quote: monet0412

One more story that I wanted to share that I forgot.

I've got one for you all, from the Cosmopolitan a few years ago.

Buddy's brother-in-law is in town hanging out and curious about VP, asks me to give him a lesson. At the time, the Cosmo was running the $100 first-timer loss rebate promo, so we signed him up, and I took him to the first VP machine I could find, said I would fund the lesson, and threw $100 into a 50c DDB machine. I figured the lesson would take about an hour, at which point we'd go back to the desk, get the $100 in freeplay added to his card, and he'd let me bang it out solo.

Dealt the royal flush in diamonds on the second hand. Whoops. $2K handpay.

OK, here's a lesson in how to fill out a W2G. Told the slot attendant I was playing, but we forgot and left his card in the machine. She takes my ID and says she'll sort it with the slot club. I get paid and tip out the attendant, and we continue the lesson with the rest of the $95 in the machine. It goes back and forth for about 45min, and I definitely generated more than $100 in loss on his card.

We get to the slot desk for the promo, and the new attendant looks up from his monitor to say "uhhh, sir, it shows you're UP nineteen hundred dollars."

"Oh. OK. Nevermind."

I threw him $500 out of the $2K to be a nice guy, which he proceeded to donk off at 6/5BJ in the next 12 minutes. C'est la vie.