Can I make it work?
Anyway, I'm a "former" advantage player, but gave up gambling professionally to try to save my marriage about 10 years ago.
In my prior life, I made my money primarily on sports, blackjack, and poker. For various reasons, those opprtunities are not there for me any longer, at least for the amount of time and effort I want to put into them right now.
I have recently discovered that my new girlfriend and I really enjoy video poker, and where I live there is an abundance of advantage play opportunities for low stakes (quarters and dollars). There are opportunities just about every day for at least a 0.5% edge, and a couple days per week a 1.5-2% edge. We only play on promotions where we have a "theortical" edge.
"Theoretical" because while I know I make some mistakes, and don't play perfect, I stick to games I know and have drilled enough to be sure I'm pretty darn close. My girlfriend, on the other hand is not quite there, but if she sticks to 9/6 JoB, she's still playing with a small advantage on those 1.5-2% promos. I'd guess we are cumulatively about even or at a slight disadvantage on the 0.5% days, but with the free food, hotels rooms, and other comps we're still alright.
In addition to the promos we play currently, there are a lot more that we can't play because I work a full-time job. My girlfriend doesn't work so she is available to play these promos when I'm not. She's not exactly a conformist, and for a variety of reasons, it makes more financial sense for her to make $10 an hour playing VP than it does to go back to work and make $15 an hour. It would get her out of the house to go do something she enjoys, maybe make a little money, and keep her away from online shopping sites, ebay, and online casinos.
I'm trying to get to the point where I can trust that she will be able to do this. She is intelligent enough, but just lacks the discipline and focus.
Example: Last week, we are playing a 10x points promo in a casino with a bar that has a bank of full pay triple play quarter GameKing's. The 9/6 jacks is the best option at 102.04% for this promo. These machines are at a premium on promo days and the next best game in the casino is an 8/5 Bonus quarter game. Still likely over 100% at her skill level. So I sit down at the one open triple play machine and she sets off with $100 to the 8/5 Bonus machine. About an hour later, I go check on her and she's playing a nickel, 5-line 6/5 DDB Super Times Play! So, she's playing a game well below 100% even with perfect strategy and 10x points, and I'd guess she's probably 90% proficient at best with her plays on this machine. "I lost $60 in like 15 minutes, so I needed to change it up - I'm only down like $20 on this machine", she says. AAAARG!!!
I've been over the numbers, created cheat sheets with return percentages for all the pay tables, showed her the penalties for playing incorrect strategies or inferior pay tables, and I know she gets it, but still amazes me often.
She gets the numbers, but I think I bore her with all of the statistical minutia I feed her. Does anybody have any suggestions on how I can get the importance of game selection and strategy across to her without bogging down in all this? Maybe a good analogy that get my points across. Or maybe it's just a lost cause and I should just let her enjoy herself and have some fun...
But yeah...it sounds like you are trying to put your g/f into something she isn't nearly as interested in doing, which is intentionally trying to "beat the house", which obviously takes significant discipline.
My g/f is finally submitting to holding a low pair over two high cards because for awhile she was getting frustrated that low pairs were never hitting for her. In my case, I would just try to gently remind her if I was playing next to her. But then again, she is just playing for 25 or 30c a hand and not trying to make money off the game either.
Quote: scoob
In addition to the promos we play currently, there are a lot more that we can't play because I work a full-time job. My girlfriend doesn't work so she is available to play these promos when I'm not. She's not exactly a conformist, and for a variety of reasons, it makes more financial sense for her to make $10 an hour playing VP than it does to go back to work and make $15 an hour. It would get her out of the house to go do something she enjoys, maybe make a little money, and keep her away from online shopping sites, ebay, and online casinos.
The latter part of this concerns me a lot. Online shopping and casinos??? If you don't convince your g/f to remain on the straight and narrow, her losses will outweigh the wins you grind obviously. Unfortunately, I generally suck with women and don't have any better advice on convincing her what you would like her to do.
as long as she knows she doesnt get to keep the winnings.
Quote: scoobHello all, I'm a new member and I hope it's not bad form to start a thread on my first post. I apologize in advance if so. I also apologize if I get too long-winded.
Anyway, I'm a "former" advantage player, but gave up gambling professionally to try to save my marriage about 10 years ago.
In my prior life, I made my money primarily on sports, blackjack, and poker. For various reasons, those opprtunities are not there for me any longer, at least for the amount of time and effort I want to put into them right now.
I have recently discovered that my new girlfriend and I really enjoy video poker, and where I live there is an abundance of advantage play opportunities for low stakes (quarters and dollars). There are opportunities just about every day for at least a 0.5% edge, and a couple days per week a 1.5-2% edge. We only play on promotions where we have a "theortical" edge.
"Theoretical" because while I know I make some mistakes, and don't play perfect, I stick to games I know and have drilled enough to be sure I'm pretty darn close. My girlfriend, on the other hand is not quite there, but if she sticks to 9/6 JoB, she's still playing with a small advantage on those 1.5-2% promos. I'd guess we are cumulatively about even or at a slight disadvantage on the 0.5% days, but with the free food, hotels rooms, and other comps we're still alright.
In addition to the promos we play currently, there are a lot more that we can't play because I work a full-time job. My girlfriend doesn't work so she is available to play these promos when I'm not. She's not exactly a conformist, and for a variety of reasons, it makes more financial sense for her to make $10 an hour playing VP than it does to go back to work and make $15 an hour. It would get her out of the house to go do something she enjoys, maybe make a little money, and keep her away from online shopping sites, ebay, and online casinos.
I'm trying to get to the point where I can trust that she will be able to do this. She is intelligent enough, but just lacks the discipline and focus.
Example: Last week, we are playing a 10x points promo in a casino with a bar that has a bank of full pay triple play quarter GameKing's. The 9/6 jacks is the best option at 102.04% for this promo. These machines are at a premium on promo days and the next best game in the casino is an 8/5 Bonus quarter game. Still likely over 100% at her skill level. So I sit down at the one open triple play machine and she sets off with $100 to the 8/5 Bonus machine. About an hour later, I go check on her and she's playing a nickel, 5-line 6/5 DDB Super Times Play! So, she's playing a game well below 100% even with perfect strategy and 10x points, and I'd guess she's probably 90% proficient at best with her plays on this machine. "I lost $60 in like 15 minutes, so I needed to change it up - I'm only down like $20 on this machine", she says. AAAARG!!!
I've been over the numbers, created cheat sheets with return percentages for all the pay tables, showed her the penalties for playing incorrect strategies or inferior pay tables, and I know she gets it, but still amazes me often.
She gets the numbers, but I think I bore her with all of the statistical minutia I feed her. Does anybody have any suggestions on how I can get the importance of game selection and strategy across to her without bogging down in all this? Maybe a good analogy that get my points across. Or maybe it's just a lost cause and I should just let her enjoy herself and have some fun...
I would not risk the relationship. It sounds like she is not interested in being a full-time AP. She would rather have fun and play a variety of games. I guess it's up to you to decide how hard you want to push, but to me a good woman is not worth increasing the already difficult task of having a great long term relationship.
ZCore13
Quote: AcesAndEightsMy totally off-the-cuff advice is that if you try to pound the correct VP strategy and approach into her, your relationship will suffer.
I agree with this. Being too pushy is going to lead to problems. But if she is playing 5-line nickels on a bad paytable (worse than any STP game I have ever seen, fwiw), it's going to be costly to just let her play freely too.
And btw, welcome to the forum scoob! Interesting topic for a first post. I just wish I could be more helpful.
FWIW, she has out-royaled me 8-4 since we started playing so she's got that going for her (although one was on a nickel 20 coin machine that she hit "BET 5" instead of "BET MAX" and one she held Ah10h, which she'll probably do forever now).
If its to be fun, don't argue. If its to be income,,, you better be sure not to argue about it in any way.
Play. Have fun. If its also "make money" .. congratulations.
Keep accurate records. Stop trying to bore her. She wants to have fun with you and with a VP machine. Let her. Stop with the stats. After she sees her performance levels maybe she will ask you for some more lessons, maybe not.
Play side by side if you want to, but keep your eyes and your mind on your own machine and your own results.
Don't criticize her play. Ever.
Quote: ontariodealerif she won't listen, withhold sex.
I hadn't thought of that. My hands per hour would probably suffer with the added stress on my button-pushin' hand, though.
If you are determined to teach her, get a VP trainer and set up a normal pay schedule on a game she likes, let her play how she wants for 3 hrs(hopefully she will run bad)
Then set up the same game with a pay table at 130% (tweak the flush and full house). Have her play for 3 hrs on that with proper play. Then explain this is what is happening in the casino when she plays inferior games and strategy. If that dose not convince her, NOTHING WILL.
The best way to get someone to understand is by having them do something that's so obvious you cant lose(match plays, bonus games). Then take it down a notch each time. hopefully by then its understood how it works. Its more important for them to understand WHY they are winning then how to win at first.
If you are averaging 1% only......... Good Luck, because there is usually no instant gratification. The +EV is hard to see.
Quote: AxelWolfsome people just don't get it and they never will.
Absolutely this.
Quote:I have ran across many people.(Asian females, Koreans are the worst) and a few friends who just have to many idocenancys, superstitions or see more patterns then most.
I bought 100 shares of Idocenancys, and although I'm down slightly, I still expect to profit if the FDA approves their application.
This was in 2000. He came at a time there was some good low risk high earn EZ bonus plays. still some Flush Attack around, tons of bonus slots, promotions, match plays and everything. I set him up with a place showed him some tricks to save money, then I took him on as a Jr. partner, gave him a bankroll took him by the hand and gave him the the keys to winning.He didn't pick things up so fast and could be lazy at times, but over all it was ok.
I picked him up everyday, I introduced him to others. He was doing great at first( paid me back start up money got a nice bankroll) other then spending to much money. I warned him droughts come, things change, SAVE MONEY for times when its dry.
I had to go out of town for just a few months. When I got back he was busted and disgusted. He said, he could not find good stuff to play. I'm certain he didn't have a go off problem.
I gave him one more chance ( A loan) but I told him he had to start learning and doing this on his own and work hard. It didn't take long for him to fail and he had to head back to Washington. I know other guys that started at the same time with less help and money and they have never looked back. Some people just don't get it.
Quote: AxelWolfI meant idiocentricities. still not sure if that's correct
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
Quote: AxelWolfI meant idiocentricities. still not sure if that's correct
I had to look that one up. Basically it means things that idiots do, which is not far off from the thread topic.
But I think you may have been going for "idiosyncrasies," which means unusual characteristics.
I knew the word, but it's a tough spelling. I would have needed several attempts to get it right without a dictionary.
