Bounceback and mailers

So as I'm reading and learning more things about video poker, just looking for the highest return off the top isn't the best way to maximize EV. I can play FPDW all day and get my edge, but it seems to me where it's at are mailers and bounceback offers. I can play NSUD and put in some volume, to get mailers which could possibly yield a higher return, plus benefits (such as my points eligible to under drawings, where most VP income seems to come from).

The problem is most of the formulas for what I get back are a mystery, and my local casino offers this information, but they only stock class II VLTs which I will not touch. As a Vegas local which I will be a few months, where are the best places to coin in for mailers as a quarters player? Also I understand that playing only on multiple-point days can get you barred or kicked out, so what's a good amount of volume to put in on off days? Can I get enough cash/freeplay back to realize an edge?

I beleive the bounceback mailer opportunity in Vegas is unlike any where else because of competition for the local player from the local type casinos. BUT, you have to be extremely disciplined with your play. You give each store that you are targeting just enough play to generate mail offers that will be disproportionately high for the amount of play that you gave.

I am not going to offer a blue print detailing stores and amounts and such. I have already made a couple posts where I gave to much details in this area, you may want to look for them. lol But I will offer a few vauge suggestions and thoughts.

1. You need to concentrate on the stores that are really interested in local players. They are the ones competing for the local players dollar, so basically forget the tourist places. For the purpose of bonus and bounceback chasing, the strip doesn't exit and downtown is almost as bad. There is one location, that changed name in the last year, on fremont street that is worthwhile, forget the rest. You may get some offers from a couple others down there but they are not the premium offers you are after. Don't waste your time.

2. A good place to start in the search for casinos that cater to locals, is the chain that advertises just that. Don't play at all their stores, that is actually detrimental and will bring your daily average down. Pick one store and make that your home base. Hit them with one substantial play and wait for the offers to start. Oh one thing to know. Some places the offers will start the following month, some are on a delay of 1 or even 2 full months.

3. There is a second chain that also has decent offers to locals, where the same rules apply. This one is a little trickier because they have locations downtown that they treat like tourist places and 4 locations, one far east, one far west and 2 just off the strip that they treat as local places catering to locals. Again, it does no good to play multuple properties. Pick one of these 4 non-downtown properties to play.

4. Everything else is pretty much independent properties, although there are two sister properties which has a common word in their name. They are not linked by players card though, so if you play at both, you will get two different cards and accounts, although the players card club has the same name. ???? strange, I know. Incidentally one of these locations, which I recently mentioned is absolutely the best for local mailers in all of Vegas. Be sure to give them one decent substantional play and see what follows.

Oh what the hell, I'll give you some of the remaining independent names: South point, Terribles, Tuscany, M resort, Jerry's Nugget (one of the better ones), Palms (this might not seem like a locals place but it is as far as bounceback mailers), Aliente is ok, but a long drive to get there.

3 last thoughts: One, don't exclusively play the 100%+ games. You will be downgraded and actually receieve less offers. Find a good game that pays 99+% and and you will maximize your offers and your bounceback will push you positive. And Two, There are other benefits besides just the bounce back free play. The most obvious being food offers. You will receive food offers, either free offers or half price offers. Use half price offers with your points, yes you still will receive the tradtional points for your play. They don't amount to much, so I like to use them for food with any half price offers. Every meal you eat out at a casino cuts your grocery bill. Three, there are 'hidden' benefits that can be huge. Entries into drawings and contest and things like that. Last year, I won several drawings because of entries received just from my bonus chasing efforts. The big one was a automobile, which I negotiated a cash deal with the dealer instead (I kept the $2000 gasoline bonus that came with it). I also won several drawing in which the prize was more free play. The larger ones of $2000, $1200 and $500 in free play. Free play is money. Just play through the minimum to cash out. And finally, at Palms my bonus chasing play got me a free entry into their season long football contest in which the top weekly prize is either $10,000 or $7500 depending on if you need the tie breaker to win. I hit one of the top weekly prizes and actually came close a couple other times. Contests and drawings because of your play are hidden benefits that you might not initially realize.

One last really big thought. You have to be extremely disciplined and organized to really maximize this opportunity. Good luck.

After re-reading, I actually did come pretty close to giving the blue print. lol

My experience has been that comps and cashback varies with the return of the game. When I switched from being a double double bonus player to a bonus player, my cashback at one casino dropped dramatically because the return on the bonus game is higher.

At Pechanga a few years ago my cashback was cut to near zero after I had a lucky streak at DDB.

If your coming to Vegas to make a serious go of AP There's not one specific thing you should play or do such as VP. You will need to do everything you possibly can that's plus EV unless you have a monster bank roll. Match plays ,banking slot machines, drawings, UltimateX, progressives *PROMOTIONS* you know the term location, location, location well in AP that's equal to PROMOTIONS, PROMOTIONS, PROMOTIONS(Lots of driving around playing and scouting) Even more driving around if you don't have connections with other APs. You probably wont make a lot of money from just information posted on this MB. You need to find hidden things or things first. Its like buying a stock once everyone gets the new news its probably not as good. Sometimes it keeps growing. Teams have a huge advantage because they get steady information and can lock up good plays.

Quote: kewlj

After re-reading, I actually did come pretty close to giving the blue print. lol

Thank you for the information! Sounds like you know exactly how to maximize the EV out of the situation. I think I have a good grasp on the areas you mentioned. It seems to me the best play is to keep my out of state ID for strip properties, and use a local ID for off strip. I'm pretty much going off of the Bob Dancer rule he always writes/talks about: Find the best game that can qualify for mailers, and maximize play with considerations to bankroll for the gravy which are the contest drawings. Regarding the Palms; This is my favorite casino in terms of great VP.

The big problem with playing FPDW (which is a strong game in itself, but barebones in extras because of the strong return) is I can't "freeroll" myself into contests or drawings which have a lot expectation of winning but can greatly increase bankroll for little to no cost. My NSUD game is not as strong but I'm adding it into my play so I can take advantage of great offers as they come.

Run through 30,000 at the Aliante and receive roughly $1600 in free play, $200 in food, and an assortment of gifts.

If one is a high roller and can stomach the swings, the Wynn has outstanding mailers.

I've heard that Palms during the day should be considered a locals joint, but Nights and weekends a touristy joint. Its no longer the great VP heaven it used to be but its still good for VP.

South point despite its 2x on craps and BJ "sweat the money" reputation really is quite a bargain and seems to do okay on comps.

Silverton was amazingly not listed by you.

I know everything is now done by computers, not individuals, but one Vegas "grazer" swore that going to the same people each time he visited a casino helped him get favorably noticed.

Can anyone share their reports on mailers received at The M and how much coin in was applied?
Thanks

Quote: JIMMYFOCKER

Can anyone share their reports on mailers received at The M and how much coin in was applied?
Thanks

I hate to trash the "M" yet again. I just trashed them yesterday in the buffet thread. But, it seems no matter the topic, bj conditions, VP conditions, mailer bounce back or food review, the narrative is similar. "M" was so much better in all these area and has just deteriorated in all areas over the last couple years. When I first expanded my AP to include bonus chasing, relying heavily on bounce back mailers, just a couple years ago, "M" mailers were among my top 2 or 3. Now they rate near the bottom.

Now in addition to the fact that they have tightened up considerably, the way they structure their mail offers is problematic. Most properties in Vegas, will break their offers up into segments, usually weekly, requiring you to visit 4 times during the month to play all your free play earned. The problem with that is that it lowers your daily average and future mailers free play amounts will be lower. Now "M" breaks up their free play offer into 10 or 11 specific days. A free play amount is only good on that one day, with 10 or 11 of these days spread out through the month. This means in order to play all the free play available, you need to visit 10 or 11 different times during the month. This means your daily ave will drop 3 times as fast as other locations.

Quote: kewlj

I hate to trash the "M" yet again. I just trashed them yesterday in the buffet thread. But, it seems no matter the topic, bj conditions, VP conditions, mailer bounce back or food review, the narrative is similar. "M" was so much better in all these area and has just deteriorated in all areas over the last couple years. When I first expanded my AP to include bonus chasing, relying heavily on bounce back mailers, just a couple years ago, "M" mailers were among my top 2 or 3. Now they rate near the bottom.

Now in addition to the fact that they have tightened up considerably, the way they structure their mail offers is problematic. Most properties in Vegas, will break their offers up into segments, usually weekly, requiring you to visit 4 times during the month to play all your free play earned. The problem with that is that it lowers your daily average and future mailers free play amounts will be lower. Now "M" breaks up their free play offer into 10 or 11 specific days. A free play amount is only good on that one day, with 10 or 11 of these days spread out through the month. This means in order to play all the free play available, you need to visit 10 or 11 different times during the month. This means your daily ave will drop 3 times as fast as other locations.

Yes, the 10-11 cash back days is just crazy, and have not seen a 3x VP day in months.