Wizard
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Wizard
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May 21st, 2016 at 7:32:58 PM permalink
Quote: LuckyPhow

Wiz, I think Keeperofcards, who works for one of the player-banker firms, (20-May-2016, Interesting-pair-plus-paytable) tried to explain:
"...when compared, one hand must win, lose, or tie completely. This restricts us from paying the pair plus on a hand, when the bank hand is a better hand," according to what Florida requires of poker rooms.
Likewise, I guess that answers the problem with the Ante Bonus being deleted. It's not an actual bet, per se, that can always be resolved (win-loss-tie) at the conclusion of the hand. At least, that's my best understanding of what Keeper said.
Many thanx for your analysis. Seems the Gretna poker room Pair Plus is better than the standard 7.28% HE, right? Even though the base game is pretty sick.



Thanks. That was my understanding too. I'm just trying to reconcile that with BBB's statement about the player banking being the issue.
Last edited by: Wizard on May 21, 2016
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
beachbumbabs
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May 21st, 2016 at 8:24:36 PM permalink
I may just be explaining it badly. Since you are not playing against the house, you are not playing against a paytable, you are playing against a person you must beat to win the bet.

My understanding of how it,.or Trips, or any of the sidebets work, is that you must have a qualifying hand, AND a better hand than the bank, to win the bet. Only an exact tie with a qualifying bank hand will push. And all non-qualified hands, and hands lower than the bank, lose.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
Wizard
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Wizard
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May 21st, 2016 at 9:24:09 PM permalink
Quote: beachbumbabs

I may just be explaining it badly. Since you are not playing against the house, you are not playing against a paytable, you are playing against a person you must beat to win the bet.

My understanding of how it,.or Trips, or any of the sidebets work, is that you must have a qualifying hand, AND a better hand than the bank, to win the bet. Only an exact tie with a qualifying bank hand will push. And all non-qualified hands, and hands lower than the bank, lose.



Yes, we all seem to be in agreement about the rules. Maybe I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed, but I'm having trouble understanding your point for the reasons behind the rule change compared to conventional Three Card Poker.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
odiousgambit
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May 22nd, 2016 at 2:57:04 AM permalink
Quote: LuckyPhow

I'm sorta into the gaming business, what with reading the most interesting court depositions involving Florida's various ongoing legal battles with poker rooms, horse tracks, and tribal compacts, among other things.



maybe it should be another thread, but I have been trying to follow the FL situation; it's been difficult. What is your take on it currently?
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!” She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
charliepatrick
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May 22nd, 2016 at 4:00:54 AM permalink
Quote: Ayecarumba

...players that bank ... larger action from the corporate banker...

Assuming you can get a fair game (i.e. no cheating) and the "banker" pays $1 per round it must be in your advantage to play the minimum against the corporation and let them bet as much as they like against you. You might not like the variance but you can always reduce your bank to an amount you are happy with (although it has to overcome the $1 fee).
beachbumbabs
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May 22nd, 2016 at 5:46:02 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Yes, we all seem to be in agreement about the rules. Maybe I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed, but I'm having trouble understanding your point for the reasons behind the rule change compared to conventional Three Card Poker.



Maybe it's philosophical distaste more than reason. The one time I played UTH in a local card room, I was astounded that the trips bet paid 10:1 on a fh. Didn't notice the asterisk at first. Quads on the board. Dealer outkicked me. No Trips pay, which usually saves you. Lost my fh to a higher pair. Pushed a straight. Crap like that. Finally had to leave, up a little overall, out of really not enjoying having so many hands offered and then taken away. I like knowing a side bet will pay win or lose.

I suppose they can design a paytable that compensates for the losses and ties; the one you calculated here isn't awful, and the UTH one does pay 10 for a fh* instead of 8.

Fwiw, the banker player is some kind of contractual entity. If a 3rd party walks in and wants to bank, it's technically possible, but the fees for banking triple or something, and there's a huge bankroll required too. They weren't all that willing to discuss the details, so sorry this is vague and could be wrong.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
LuckyPhow
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May 22nd, 2016 at 6:03:09 AM permalink
Quote: odiousgambit

maybe it should be another thread, but I have been trying to follow the FL situation; it's been difficult. What is your take on it currently?


Sounds like an interesting subject to discuss, but best to discuss it on a separate thread somewhere else. But, I'm game.
I'm mighty new here, so I claim no particular knowledge of where might be best. That said, why don't you start a tread -- maybe in the "Other" subsection of the "Gambling Business" Forum. Something like, "Gaming Legal Battles in Florida," or something similar. No telling what info we might dredge from the folks at this site. I'll help by trying to answer your initial info request, and we'll see where it goes from there.
beachbumbabs
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May 22nd, 2016 at 6:08:53 AM permalink
So I still don't understand the reason /excuse for not paying the ante bonus. I do know that Florida law says that only one sidebet per table may be offered on any game. Maybe they're conflating that somehow to mean they can only pay the base game 1:1 on any win, but UTH still offers odds payouts on the Blind bet as well as the Trips bet, so if that's their story, no. I think that's what's paying the double cost of offering 3CP there.

I also understood from an overheard comment that the $1 drop is a marker, not a dollar value on the rake. It's a hands-dealt counter, and they were plugging in how many players each hand (the house was)before dealing. Again, I could be wrong, or what I learned may only pertain to that card room.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
GWAE
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May 22nd, 2016 at 6:30:40 AM permalink
Quote: LuckyPhow

Wiz, please tell me the House Advantage on the strange Three-Card Poker rules I recently saw at a Florida poker room. It has all the standard rules, except as follows:
(a) There is no Ante Bonus payout. None.
(b) Pair Plus has the standard pay table, except a Pair pays 2-to-1 instead of 1-to-1 (but you must beat the dealer to win ANY Pair Plus bet).
With no Ante Bonus available, the House must have a higher advantage. But, PairPlus pays double for pairs. So, how much worse off am I playing this versus playing the "standard" Three-Card Poker? Any help appreciated.



Am I understanding correctly. You pay $5 as ante and $5 as pair plus. Say you have a pair and win the hand. You will be paid $10 but they take your ante? Or since you win do you keep your ante but you don't get paid on it?
Expect the worst and you will never be disappointed. I AM NOT PART OF GWAE RADIO SHOW
GWAE
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May 22nd, 2016 at 6:32:30 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

For now, I'm going to assume that a tie is a push, no matter what the player has. That said, here is my return table for the Pairplus bet under the Florida rules. The lower right cell shows a house edge of 4.23%.

Event Pays Combinations Probability Return
Player wins with Mini Royal 200 73,684 0.000181 0.036193
Player wins with straight flush 40 809,556 0.001988 0.079530
Player wins with three of a kind 30 954,736 0.002345 0.070344
Player wins with straight 4 12,976,488 0.031870 0.127480
Player wins with flush 3 18,928,820 0.046489 0.139466
Player wins with pair 2 57,094,704 0.140223 0.280446
Player wins with trash -1 112,521,948 0.276351 -0.276351
Tie 0 450,528 0.001106 0.000000
Dealer wins -1 203,359,936 0.499447 -0.499447
Total 407,170,400 1.000000 -0.042338



HE is better than vegas games but with the ante not paying anything that has got to make the overall game horrible.
Expect the worst and you will never be disappointed. I AM NOT PART OF GWAE RADIO SHOW

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