teddys
teddys
Joined: Nov 14, 2009
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September 10th, 2015 at 11:47:07 AM permalink
Quote: Commish

The odds of getting quads is only 600-1 and a straight flush is 3600-1. You have been unlucky not to cash in on these. It will happen. I play this game for a living and have had 47 straight flushes dealt to me. I have seen 12 royal flushes but none of them were mine. There are only 6 spots at the table and they are not always full. Nonetheless, I am encouraged by the fact that I have won money for 5 straight years without the benefit of a royal. On the other hand, maybe I have received more than my share of str flushes. Hang in there, they will come.

You play UTH for a living? I'm surprised. Not saying it isn't possible. I'm curious if you'd like to reveal more information. (I'm guessing not...)

As for me, I have gotten three straight flushes. More quads than I can count. Never received nor seen a royal while I was playing.
"Dice, verily, are armed with goads and driving-hooks, deceiving and tormenting, causing grievous woe." -Rig Veda 10.34.4
CharmedQuark
CharmedQuark
Joined: Apr 28, 2015
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September 10th, 2015 at 2:32:06 PM permalink
Thanks for all the comments. Iím relieved that I wasnít totally out in left field with my OP.

BBB Ė I did consider the EOR. Statistically, there wasnít much difference with the HE. Both the EOR and the HE more than tripled. Thatís kind of a quantum jump in quark terms.

Well, it appears that I havenít played long enough or Iím not all that lucky like most on this thread. Iíve never relied on luck when I play. My playing rule is to learn the game, trust the math, play the basic strategy and not play casino games with a HE over 3% or never make bets on plays (bonuses etc.) that are over 3%.

I really like to play UTH. I love the opportunity to shove that 4x bet at the casino knowing their back is against the wall with my 50+% win advantage. I'm pondering whether to continue playing.

There is another table on the Wizís UTH page that shows the average wager and return from each bet which results in a total average win of -0.02185 from the average 4.152252 wagers. I could use that table and forget about all those individual hand outcome statistics (out of sight Ė out of mind). Now that is irrational.
Sandybestdog
Sandybestdog
Joined: Feb 3, 2015
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September 15th, 2015 at 2:07:23 PM permalink
This is interesting. I have thought about it as well. Quads are quite common. I've had about 8 or 9 of them(including one yesterday)and saw 3 just the other day. Never seen a royal, except once in a cash game. But take Mississippi Stud. Play it for a few hours, days, even weeks, and you will probably never see a straight through royal. How much of that makes up the expected value? If you don't get one, are you really playing a game with a 10% house edge? UTH is a volatile game. In my experience you will only stay break even or positive if you are hole carding. If you can stay that way and profit when you get the occasional straight flush or royal, then you're ahead.
chefphydeaux
chefphydeaux
Joined: Feb 22, 2012
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September 15th, 2015 at 3:34:40 PM permalink
I have had the opposite experience with UTH. I seem to be allergic to quads, having had them once, and that was a community 4oak. I was fortunate to be holding an A blank and won the hand.
I have been dealt 2 each royal and straight flushes, all coming on the turn/river, never the flop. On the other hand I have also managed to kill the game with more boats than I can remember, and that seems to be making up for the lack of quads.

For me watching the "real poker" players come in to UTH and toss away bad money after worse money, is where the real fun is.
Mission146
Mission146
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September 15th, 2015 at 5:13:17 PM permalink
Quote: Sandybestdog

This is interesting. I have thought about it as well. Quads are quite common. I've had about 8 or 9 of them(including one yesterday)and saw 3 just the other day. Never seen a royal, except once in a cash game. But take Mississippi Stud. Play it for a few hours, days, even weeks, and you will probably never see a straight through royal. How much of that makes up the expected value? If you don't get one, are you really playing a game with a 10% house edge? UTH is a volatile game. In my experience you will only stay break even or positive if you are hole carding. If you can stay that way and profit when you get the occasional straight flush or royal, then you're ahead.



The Expected Value tables would be on the Wizardofodds.com site for the game. I'd link you, but I'm on my phone at the moment.

What a Video Poker player playing a positive game would call what you are describing as the, 'Drop,' between Royals. The more lifetime play you have at a certain denomination, the more likely you are to approach the Expected Value, and the less meaningful the drop is because, as you play hundreds of thousands of more hands, your actual number of Royals should more closely approximate the Expected number.

For a player with a limited bankroll, or for a player who wants to attempt to determine (or simulate) how long a certain bankroll should last given the amount of hands he/she should get in the event of missing the higher paying hands.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
Sandybestdog
Sandybestdog
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September 15th, 2015 at 8:55:50 PM permalink
Quote: Mission146

The Expected Value tables would be on the Wizardofodds.com site for the game. I'd link you, but I'm on my phone at the moment.

What a Video Poker player playing a positive game would call what you are describing as the, 'Drop,' between Royals. The more lifetime play you have at a certain denomination, the more likely you are to approach the Expected Value, and the less meaningful the drop is because, as you play hundreds of thousands of more hands, your actual number of Royals should more closely approximate the Expected number.

For a player with a limited bankroll, or for a player who wants to attempt to determine (or simulate) how long a certain bankroll should last given the amount of hands he/she should get in the event of missing the higher paying hands.


Yes exactly. Video poker is the perfect example. I hate it when people say it pays back 99% or whatever. It doesn't. It pays back probably 90% until you hit a royal. That happens what like 1 in every 40,000 hands? You can easily go 1 or 2 cycles without hitting one. In blackjack things like hit/stand on 17, double after split, blackjack paying 3:2, and surrender are what make up the house edge. If you play 100 hands, all of these will happen, so you can feel the effects of the full house edge, plus or minus variance.
Mission146
Mission146
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September 15th, 2015 at 9:34:48 PM permalink
Quote: Sandybestdog

Yes exactly. Video poker is the perfect example. I hate it when people say it pays back 99% or whatever. It doesn't. It pays back probably 90% until you hit a royal. That happens what like 1 in every 40,000 hands? You can easily go 1 or 2 cycles without hitting one. In blackjack things like hit/stand on 17, double after split, blackjack paying 3:2, and surrender are what make up the house edge. If you play 100 hands, all of these will happen, so you can feel the effects of the full house edge, plus or minus variance.



Most Video Poker games still pay substantially over 90% if you don't hit a Royal with enough hands. Really good ones would still pay over 97%.

It's true that you can easily go multiple cycles without hitting one, but you could also hit a couple within a thousand hands. Theoretically, you could hit them back to back.

Video Poker isn't for everyone, but I like it.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
JohnnyComet
JohnnyComet
Joined: Feb 16, 2014
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September 16th, 2015 at 8:29:38 AM permalink
Quote: chefphydeaux

For me watching the "real poker" players come in to UTH and toss away bad money after worse money, is where the real fun is.



Can you elaborate? I find most poker players have some idea of the optimal strategy and don't play Trips...

BTW speaking of that I tend to play Trips as I feel like I won't get close to the expected value with the limited bankroll/time I play and like the additional variance.
Sandybestdog
Sandybestdog
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September 16th, 2015 at 2:03:32 PM permalink
Quote: JohnnyComet

Can you elaborate? I find most poker players have some idea of the optimal strategy and don't play Trips...

BTW speaking of that I tend to play Trips as I feel like I won't get close expected value with the limited bankroll/time I play and like the additional variance.



I am mostly a table games player. Sometimes when I just want to play something different I would take $20 or $40 and go play video poker. Of course 99 out of 100 times you lose that money in 10 minutes so it really wasn't much fun. A friend got me to play a few poker tournaments and those were fun so instead of playing video poker, I'll play a 3/6 limit cash game. I still lose the $40 but it's funner and I learn more. Occasionally I do end up ahead.

From talking with other poker players, most don't even know there is a table game. There is a stark contrast between table game and poker players. You can spot a poker player a mile away. They have their little hoodies and jumbo Beats headsets and sunglasses. They walk around with their Red Bulls and throw their chips in like in like they're in the WSOP main event. They like winning from other players whereas table games players just want to take down the house.

I think UTH taught me about odds, kickers and outs but it is very different than poker. You raise 4x with K5 but I have found in poker that it's better to have 2 medium cards than a high and low. 8/9 suited often turns into a nice hand. Overall I have found poker to be pretty dumb. All this preflop raising and folding and less than half the time nobody even sees the river. Case in point I was playing during a high hand session that rolled over every 30 minutes. It was up to $500. My side of the table was all just calling or folding preflop but the other side thought they were all Phil Ivey and were raising to $6 and $12 preflop. We all said to them why don't we check or min raise it to the river and then you can bet all you want. Then we can have a shot at the high hand. Well they didn't want to do that. I got Q5 and somebody raised it so I folded. Three 5's then proceeded to come out.
MrGoldenSun
MrGoldenSun
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April 26th, 2016 at 11:17:21 AM permalink
Quote: Sandybestdog

Overall I have found poker to be pretty dumb. All this preflop raising and folding and less than half the time nobody even sees the river. Case in point I was playing during a high hand session that rolled over every 30 minutes. It was up to $500. My side of the table was all just calling or folding preflop but the other side thought they were all Phil Ivey and were raising to $6 and $12 preflop. We all said to them why don't we check or min raise it to the river and then you can bet all you want. Then we can have a shot at the high hand. Well they didn't want to do that.



They presumably didn't want to do that because they were interested in playing poker, not the lottery. If you told me to just check everything until the river so that you had a shot at the high hand, I wouldn't listen either. Simply waiting to see who hits the high hand is not what's fun about the game for me or for many others. The fun is in actually playing cards.

Also, agreements like the one you proposed are typically against the rules. It might result in forfeiting any high hand winnings--I know that's true for bad beat jackpots anyway but not sure if it's true for high hands within a room as well.

It sounds like live poker is not your game, but I don't see why that makes it "dumb." I would argue that it's the "smartest" and most complex game in the casino.

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