UCivan
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July 5th, 2015 at 6:23:10 PM permalink
At Palace Station, Las Vegas, there is a new Quik Baccarat game, without the rack card. The floor person did not know when it would be open (it might even have opened already) and she did not know the rules.

On the layout, there is "51 to 1" for 0, "26 to 1" for 18, and "Quik Hit" for "1-2-3-15-16-17", 2 to 1 (??).

Does anyone know the rules?

I have some photos but don't know how to post them here.
MathExtremist
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July 5th, 2015 at 7:57:04 PM permalink
Looks like a bet on the sum of Player and Banker. Perhaps making one waives commission, or could be a pure add-on. Or, those could be the only bets available altogether ... did you see the normal bet spots?
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UCivan
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July 5th, 2015 at 8:13:38 PM permalink
Yes, there are normal bet spots. The payouts I said earlier are add-ons. How to post photos here without having a URL?
MathExtremist
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July 5th, 2015 at 11:07:40 PM permalink
You can't. Upload to imgur or photobucket and use that URL.
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beachbumbabs
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July 6th, 2015 at 12:22:46 AM permalink
tinypic.com talks you thru it very simply. Once it's uploaded there, copy and paste the address in the last of the 4 boxes it offers.

then use brackets "[]" around IMG=your pasted image address from above and it will show it in your reply.
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UCivan
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July 6th, 2015 at 8:02:04 AM permalink
Thanks, Babs,



MathExtremist
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July 6th, 2015 at 8:17:04 AM permalink
Are the side bets supposed to go on the line? What happens when a player seated at 1 or 2 wants to bet on 0? That layout looks like it will cause procedure problems.
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UCivan
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July 6th, 2015 at 8:46:06 AM permalink
The floors also knew nothing. hahaha..
Kalel
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July 6th, 2015 at 9:27:49 AM permalink
Quote: MathExtremist

Are the side bets supposed to go on the line? What happens when a player seated at 1 or 2 wants to bet on 0? That layout looks like it will cause procedure problems.



Its the same with the URWay Egalite side bet on Baccarat/Punto Banco aswell. If you want to make certain tie bets you have to reach halfway across the table. I have no idea how they track who has bet what at a full table. Like you say, it's a procedural nightmare.
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teliot
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July 6th, 2015 at 3:36:10 PM permalink
Quote: Kalel

Its the same with the URWay Egalite side bet on Baccarat/Punto Banco aswell. If you want to make certain tie bets you have to reach halfway across the table. I have no idea how they track who has bet what at a full table. Like you say, it's a procedural nightmare.

It's not the same as U.R.E. I visited Palace Station today and asked. This is one wager that has a pay table that pays if the hand result is 0, 1, 2, 3, 15, 16, 17 or 18. The PB complained about the challenges of paying 51-to-1 if the result of the hand was a 0-0 tie, especially if the player wagers mixed-denomination chips. I agree. That's a stupid payout.
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UCivan
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July 6th, 2015 at 3:51:30 PM permalink
Is 51 to 1 on 0-0 tie a stand-alone bet? Isn't it countable?
ShineyShine
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July 6th, 2015 at 3:58:31 PM permalink
Quote: teliot

It's not the same as U.R.E. I visited Palace Station today and asked. This is one wager that has a pay table that pays if the hand result is 0, 1, 2, 3, 15, 16, 17 or 18. The PB complained about the challenges of paying 51-to-1 if the result of the hand was a 0-0 tie, especially if the player wagers mixed-denomination chips. I agree. That's a stupid payout.



I agree, 51-1 is a stupid payout. As a dealer, i'd hate calculating that, and 26-1. When we were deciding on the payouts for our game, we had to compromise on the optimal house edge to keep the payouts easy round figures, even if it meant pushing the HE up a bit high. We thought it was more important to make it easy for the dealers with a round figure, rather than paying something like 37-1.

Regarding the layout, and players having to reach across to place their bets, we also had similar issues. Not procedurally ideal, but not a nightmare imo. Players can pass their chips to the dealer to place if they can't reach, and if there's too many people placing bets to remember who's is who, then that's a good problem to have!
teliot
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July 6th, 2015 at 4:00:31 PM permalink
Quote: UCivan

Is 51 to 1 on 0-0 tie a stand-alone bet? Isn't it countable?

No. 51-to-1 is not a bet by itself. In U.R.E., Tie 0-0 pays 150-to-1 and has a 12.45% H/A.

This thing at Palace Station is a single side bet that pays if the outcome of totaling the two baccarat hands is 0, 1, 2, 3, 15, 16, 17, or 18.
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jopke
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July 6th, 2015 at 4:02:13 PM permalink
Any word on when this is going live?
teliot
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July 6th, 2015 at 4:13:28 PM permalink
Quote: jopke

Any word on when this is going live?

Oh, I get it now. The layout is F**d up. It should be 51-for-1 and 26-for-1 and 2-for-1 (instead of 51-to-1, 26-to-1 and 2-to-1). If this game pays "to" instead of "for" then the player has an edge of 10.32% over the house. If the layout is fixed so that the payouts are "for" then this bet has a house edge of 8.16%.

My math could be wrong here. I'll re-do my math and double check using a different approach. Stay tuned.
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DRich
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July 6th, 2015 at 4:29:22 PM permalink
Quote: teliot

Oh, I get it now. The layout is F**d up. It should be 51-for-1 and 26-for-1 and 2-for-1 (instead of 51-to-1, 26-to-1 and 2-to-1). If this game pays "to" instead of "for" then the player has an edge of 10.32% over the house. If the layout is fixed so that the payouts are "for" then this bet has a house edge of 8.16%.

My math could be wrong here. I'll re-do my math and double check using a different approach. Stay tuned.



Intuitively that doesn't sound right. An 18% difference for a 2% increase in pay?
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teliot
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July 6th, 2015 at 4:37:44 PM permalink
Quote: DRich

Intuitively that doesn't sound right. An 18% difference for a 2% increase in pay?

Going from 1-to-1 to 2-to-1 on 1, 2, 3, 15, 16, 17 is not a 2% increase in pay.

I feel like people are just not with it today, somehow.

I double checked my work. Seems right.
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MathExtremist
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July 6th, 2015 at 4:38:27 PM permalink
It's not a 2% increase in pay, it's paying an extra unit 18% of the time. Eliot's right; I did a quick/dirty spreadsheet with the numbers from Mike's site and they match. Should be "for 1" instead of "to 1." Time to reprint the layout.
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UCivan
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July 6th, 2015 at 4:43:00 PM permalink
Is the payout table like:

Tie at 0-0 50 to 1
18 25 to 1
1,2,3,15,16,17 2 to 1

Damn layout.
ShineyShine
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July 6th, 2015 at 4:47:10 PM permalink
It would be pretty unusual for a table game to pay 'for' 1, instead of 'to' 1, yeah? I've never seen it.
teliot
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July 6th, 2015 at 4:53:47 PM permalink
Quote: ShineyShine

It would be pretty unusual for a table game to pay 'for' 1, instead of 'to' 1, yeah? I've never seen it.

Tie bet pays 9-for-1. It's very traditional to pay "for-1" on the Tie bet. Just look under "google images" and you'll see. In fact, just look at the images on the first page of this thread and you will see that the Tie bet pays 9-for-1 on that layout.

I swear, I am in some kind of bizarro universe right now with these comments. Is nothing obvious?
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ShineyShine
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July 6th, 2015 at 5:06:26 PM permalink
Quote: teliot

Tie bet pays 9-for-1. It's very traditional to pay "for-1" on the Tie bet. Just look under "google images" and you'll see.



That's interesting, never knew that.

Excuse me if this is a silly question, but if it pays 'for' 1, i assume the dealer pays out, then takes the stake?
ShineyShine
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July 6th, 2015 at 5:10:48 PM permalink
Quote: teliot

Tie bet pays 9-for-1. It's very traditional to pay "for-1" on the Tie bet. Just look under "google images" and you'll see. In fact, just look at the images on the first page of this thread and you will see that the Tie bet pays 9-for-1 on that layout.

I swear, I am in some kind of bizarro universe right now with these comments. Is nothing obvious?



Yep, you're quite right, didn't notice that. In my defence, i've had nearly a bottle of wine.
teliot
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July 6th, 2015 at 5:44:52 PM permalink
Quote: ShineyShine

Yep, you're quite right, didn't notice that. In my defence, i've had nearly a bottle of wine.

No problem. Wine is good. Vodka myself.
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teliot
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July 6th, 2015 at 7:31:35 PM permalink
Quik baccarat:

http://ungamingequipment.net/
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teliot
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July 6th, 2015 at 8:09:59 PM permalink
Quote: ShineyShine

That's interesting, never knew that.

Excuse me if this is a silly question, but if it pays 'for' 1, i assume the dealer pays out, then takes the stake?

Yes.
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ShineyShine
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July 6th, 2015 at 8:26:28 PM permalink
Quote: teliot

Yes.



Ok, cheers. Thought so, just wanted to double check.

As a dealer, i'm sure i'd keep forgetting to take the stake the first few times dealing this, as it would be so unfamiliar. Similar to how i always forgot to hit soft 17 when i worked in the only casino that had that rule a few years ago, till i got used to it.
Paradigm
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July 7th, 2015 at 12:05:28 AM permalink
Quote: teliot

Quik baccarat:

http://ungamingequipment.net/


Must be my phone access to the website, but the verbage written describing how Quik Baccarat works sounds nothing like the bet described. What am I missing?
TriathlonTodd
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July 7th, 2015 at 6:26:54 AM permalink
Another "problem" I see with the layout is that the player and banker bets are the same distance away from the dealer. I would think that this would lead to dealers accidentally sweeping up the wrong bets. A lot of bacc tables will have the banker bets be closer to the dealer and the player bets be closer the customer. This also helps with side bets that are dependent on that side winning, like the Fortune ones. Does this "problem" require correction? No, just the dealer can't go on autopilot.

The 51 to 1 problem that was brought up earlier absolutely requires a new layout to be printed and installed. There is no possible rebuttal when a player complains that they were shorted a unit. The layout clearly does not say "51 for 1". "51 for 1" is not the same as "51 to 1". The gaming commission would likely have a problem with it.
teliot
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July 7th, 2015 at 6:56:58 AM permalink
Quote: TriathlonTodd

Another "problem" I see with the layout is that the player and banker bets are the same distance away from the dealer. I would think that this would lead to dealers accidentally sweeping up the wrong bets. A lot of bacc tables will have the banker bets be closer to the dealer and the player bets be closer the customer. This also helps with side bets that are dependent on that side winning, like the Fortune ones. Does this "problem" require correction? No, just the dealer can't go on autopilot.

This is a definite problem with the table layout.

Quote:

The 51 to 1 problem that was brought up earlier absolutely requires a new layout to be printed and installed. There is no possible rebuttal when a player complains that they were shorted a unit. The layout clearly does not say "51 for 1". "51 for 1" is not the same as "51 to 1". The gaming commission would likely have a problem with it.

As I mentioned above, the game doesn't pay 51-to-1. That is an error that gives a 10%+ player edge. When it is fixed, the layout will either say "50-to-1" or "51-for-1" (same for the other payouts 25-to-1 and 1-to-1).
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teliot
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July 7th, 2015 at 6:58:05 AM permalink
Quote: Paradigm

Must be my phone access to the website, but the verbage written describing how Quik Baccarat works sounds nothing like the bet described. What am I missing?

This is the company that markets the bet, but the bet is not listed on their website for some reason.
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Kalel
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July 7th, 2015 at 9:42:12 AM permalink
Quote: teliot

It's not the same as U.R.E. I visited Palace Station today and asked. This is one wager that has a pay table that pays if the hand result is 0, 1, 2, 3, 15, 16, 17 or 18. The PB complained about the challenges of paying 51-to-1 if the result of the hand was a 0-0 tie, especially if the player wagers mixed-denomination chips. I agree. That's a stupid payout.



No I meant its the same as URway in the way that to place the side bet you could potentially have to reach across the whole table and it would be difficult for staff to keep track of who has bet on which number at a full table. It would be much more efficient if they had the tie numbers printed in front of each players box.
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teliot
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July 7th, 2015 at 10:15:15 AM permalink
You don't reach across the whole table you just make your bet on the part of the bar that's in front of your betting spot. Unless by reaching across the whole table you mean reaching four inches.
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Kalel
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July 7th, 2015 at 11:08:40 AM permalink
Quote: teliot

You don't reach across the whole table you just make your bet on the part of the bar that's in front of your betting spot. Unless by reaching across the whole table you mean reaching four inches.



Where I play URway there is one strip with the numbers labelled 0 to 9. This spans across the whole table. If you are in first base and want to bet the tie 9 you have to stretch across the whole table.
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MathExtremist
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July 7th, 2015 at 11:13:03 AM permalink
You guys are talking past each other about two different bets (and layouts)...
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice." -- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
teliot
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July 7th, 2015 at 11:43:54 AM permalink
Quote: MathExtremist

You guys are talking past each other about two different bets (and layouts)...

If he is exclusively talking about U.R. Egalite, then he is O.T. and correct. If he is saying there is any resemblance to the wagering on URE and this wager at Palace Station, that is not correct.
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