Ibeatyouraces
Ibeatyouraces
  • Threads: 68
  • Posts: 11933
Joined: Jan 12, 2010
June 24th, 2015 at 1:10:10 AM permalink
Quote: MissEye

...They help us notice dealers who need a little instruction.


I like this response. Don't blame us players, blame the dealers and supers who aren't suping! :-)
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
ssho88
ssho88
  • Threads: 53
  • Posts: 657
Joined: Oct 16, 2011
June 24th, 2015 at 9:37:54 AM permalink
We are planning to take up this offer. Once we lose all the chips(after about 97 rounds), we will purchase it again, for total of 20 times, BR=$450k, bet size=$10k, ROR=1.52 % ?
Again, anyone would like to check my figure?
charliepatrick
charliepatrick
  • Threads: 39
  • Posts: 2946
Joined: Jun 17, 2011
June 24th, 2015 at 11:04:00 AM permalink
It looks very risky, this is the result of running 10,000 shoes.
Runs : 413
Went Bust : 75 times
Average take out = $477,261.34.
Hands Dealt
Win
Lose
Tie
Bust Out
Take Away
2 246
1 031
986
229
No
$608,500
2 394
1 115
1 064
215
No
$657,224
2 127
978
934
215
No
$688,500
2 012
915
893
204
No
$458,675
485
192
242
51
9
$0
1 818
839
813
166
No
$540,537
1 949
916
859
174
No
$818,949
1 643
776
744
123
No
$645,500
1 736
788
795
153
No
$183,500
2 081
974
916
191
No
$691,348
1 469
648
683
138
No
$52,000
2 196
1 017
961
218
No
$707,321
2 068
935
943
190
No
$132,421
1 882
860
842
180
No
$373,042
1 934
860
865
209
No
$188,917
1 618
725
724
169
No
$309,050
2 322
1 081
1 013
228
No
$825,222
1 832
856
795
181
No
$868,223
2 778
1 319
1 201
258
No
$1,162,428
2 059
941
921
197
No
$436,059
1 001
428
470
103
13
$0
1 223
530
565
128
16
$0
1 011
446
486
79
13
$0
3 156
1 495
1 332
329
No
$1,486,203
2 033
943
895
195
No
$735,521
2 599
1 232
1 111
256
No
$1,204,250
943
413
454
76
14
$0
712
303
347
62
13
$0
1 900
891
831
178
No
$785,300
1 613
719
740
154
No
$101,550
1 714
758
773
183
No
$127,500
2 164
1 004
962
198
No
$620,175
1 695
757
766
172
No
$202,225
2 107
1 004
917
186
No
$1,087,574
1 999
918
877
204
No
$628,625
2 697
1 281
1 190
226
No
$958,000
2 088
952
946
190
No
$287,500
1 271
552
586
133
16
$0
1 663
746
756
161
No
$166,500
1 841
846
811
184
No
$587,500
2 154
1 001
954
199
No
$637,050
1 755
776
803
176
No
$23,470
1 864
860
824
180
No
$557,075
2 185
1 034
938
213
No
$1,073,472
2 271
1 055
1 001
215
No
$672,500
1 111
481
522
108
16
$0
389
146
198
45
8
$0
1 416
632
646
138
No
$205,272
2 110
944
946
220
No
$178,624
1 596
739
704
153
No
$669,500
1 962
908
871
183
No
$598,100
2 244
1 042
991
211
No
$690,600
1 486
664
688
134
18
$0
1 660
741
750
169
No
$189,000
2 073
948
920
205
No
$439,396
1 826
828
819
179
No
$390,920
1 107
480
516
111
16
$0
1 454
639
665
150
No
$90,000
2 041
939
907
195
No
$538,249
1 809
820
820
169
No
$248,884
1 957
873
888
196
No
$77,583
1 732
786
793
153
No
$179,786
1 998
923
888
187
No
$604,448
1 772
814
792
166
No
$453,000
743
318
362
63
12
$0
1 675
776
748
151
No
$561,575
1 141
499
535
107
14
$0
1 754
788
797
169
No
$186,552
1 795
807
807
181
No
$293,625
1 966
901
865
200
No
$587,150
2 019
947
887
185
No
$791,782
922
402
442
78
12
$0
1 104
478
516
110
13
$0
2 675
1 291
1 109
275
No
$1,883,500
2 135
977
953
205
No
$430,602
2 794
1 319
1 219
256
No
$1,006,074
2 102
995
914
193
No
$979,000
1 833
836
817
180
No
$445,199
1 932
883
861
188
No
$456,579
1 999
929
887
183
No
$653,498
1 984
903
897
184
No
$266,049
2 025
907
924
194
No
$49,871
1 902
858
864
180
No
$158,082
1 975
895
881
199
No
$394,025
1 666
754
753
159
No
$283,707
1 969
915
881
173
No
$586,600
2 092
972
937
183
No
$447,210
1 892
860
844
188
No
$400,650
1 370
619
627
124
No
$309,500
2 213
1 047
954
212
No
$1,077,200
2 974
1 401
1 265
308
No
$1,323,973
1 990
922
877
191
No
$659,900
2 880
1 373
1 236
271
No
$1,408,800
1 889
875
845
169
No
$492,335
1 890
888
832
170
No
$820,500
2 202
1 027
961
214
No
$822,519
2 054
964
921
169
No
$620,100
800
328
375
97
11
$0
798
342
384
72
11
$0
1 767
804
785
178
No
$450,100
2 691
1 291
1 133
267
No
$1,660,003
2 457
1 190
1 053
214
No
$1,408,615
686
286
336
64
12
$0
987
426
466
95
14
$0
2 371
1 093
1 061
217
No
$436,125
2 391
1 106
1 050
235
No
$664,750
2 372
1 113
1 029
230
No
$918,745
1 932
893
876
163
No
$404,575
1 915
862
853
200
No
$346,625
1 921
894
850
177
No
$692,525
1 780
824
798
158
No
$483,223
1 952
923
863
166
No
$772,415
1 523
692
703
128
No
$189,971
1 937
873
868
196
No
$288,388
1 611
723
735
153
No
$157,087
2 207
1 020
980
207
No
$609,525
997
435
472
90
15
$0
961
422
461
78
13
$0
2 165
1 014
936
215
No
$951,100
2 449
1 156
1 080
213
No
$829,164
1 067
454
498
115
15
$0
2 073
930
934
209
No
$167,958
1 823
824
829
170
No
$209,157
1 428
637
649
142
No
$184,025
1 316
582
618
116
16
$0
1 429
628
656
145
17
$0
2 107
963
900
244
No
$881,631
1 612
743
717
152
No
$562,000
2 076
953
921
202
No
$530,723
1 818
830
838
150
No
$203,075
2 111
978
946
187
No
$489,575
1 561
699
718
144
No
$95,000
2 226
1 025
986
215
No
$509,675
1 216
536
564
116
16
$0
2 248
1 071
973
204
No
$1,049,456
1 928
911
855
162
No
$777,505
1 852
870
817
165
No
$810,000
1 674
750
765
159
No
$156,100
1 440
638
667
135
17
$0
2 399
1 127
1 039
233
No
$958,575
1 610
743
708
159
No
$627,500
2 400
1 115
1 059
226
No
$667,321
1 033
445
485
103
14
$0
1 895
871
835
189
No
$654,000
1 155
510
538
107
16
$0
1 979
910
896
173
No
$409,050
1 599
704
725
170
No
$132,175
1 591
703
724
164
No
$127,150
1 341
597
634
110
18
$0
1 940
880
873
187
No
$340,125
2 386
1 101
1 051
234
No
$646,000
3 258
1 547
1 391
320
No
$1,470,075
1 830
809
814
207
No
$239,000
984
429
472
83
15
$0
1 913
881
851
181
No
$490,000
2 033
930
927
176
No
$195,000
1 968
905
870
193
No
$577,531
1 822
829
815
178
No
$430,624
1 436
630
667
139
18
$0
2 227
1 041
970
216
No
$836,124
1 707
769
783
155
No
$106,039
2 003
899
893
211
No
$295,322
1 930
872
855
203
No
$405,500
1 735
800
791
144
No
$350,119
2 065
961
895
209
No
$844,050
1 596
734
716
146
No
$521,000
2 137
975
948
214
No
$469,125
1 373
589
619
165
17
$0
1 200
519
555
126
17
$0
3 021
1 431
1 294
296
No
$1,339,479
1 740
787
789
164
No
$240,075
1 708
787
778
143
No
$381,050
2 121
993
930
198
No
$798,625
1 316
570
596
150
18
$0
2 186
998
970
218
No
$426,424
1 808
823
817
168
No
$366,075
1 802
818
807
177
No
$363,525
1 961
896
871
194
No
$472,745
2 403
1 095
1 061
247
No
$477,750
1 693
776
759
158
No
$453,700
1 815
812
818
185
No
$234,249
1 693
781
758
154
No
$530,500
1 786
819
798
169
No
$505,749
2 146
990
952
204
No
$597,500
2 028
920
900
208
No
$405,275
2 353
1 111
1 022
220
No
$974,124
708
293
336
79
11
$0
1 933
902
872
159
No
$527,000
1 748
778
800
170
No
$80,558
1 164
507
540
117
14
$0
1 710
780
775
155
No
$351,625
1 127
498
534
95
16
$0
1 887
874
833
180
No
$652,331
1 923
887
856
180
No
$548,712
2 956
1 390
1 280
286
No
$1,122,288
2 179
1 021
945
213
No
$936,980
1 524
679
706
139
No
$83,500
1 561
709
709
143
No
$318,000
2 753
1 313
1 181
259
No
$1,402,571
2 060
958
906
196
No
$711,311
1 582
726
728
128
No
$285,500
1 922
894
866
162
No
$534,274
1 824
816
810
198
No
$351,125
2 458
1 161
1 074
223
No
$984,778
2 104
996
935
173
No
$750,277
1 749
793
782
174
No
$389,124
2 202
1 026
972
204
No
$699,471
1 837
841
816
180
No
$485,125
2 145
990
942
213
No
$725,000
313
113
171
29
9
$0
2 869
1 348
1 246
275
No
$1,039,822
2 066
940
909
217
No
$503,050
2 085
962
944
179
No
$400,500
2 991
1 463
1 275
253
No
$1,758,309
2 034
933
900
201
No
$569,550
2 486
1 195
1 076
215
No
$1,289,100
660
274
328
58
12
$0
2 152
976
966
210
No
$296,624
2 033
923
916
194
No
$313,050
2 044
948
921
175
No
$480,175
2 599
1 190
1 130
279
No
$717,725
2 404
1 146
1 043
215
No
$1,131,163
623
253
304
66
12
$0
1 885
858
829
198
No
$563,113
1 835
832
829
174
No
$282,250
2 346
1 089
1 028
229
No
$772,006
1 565
697
728
140
No
$44,500
1 569
698
716
155
No
$158,000
2 139
1 014
925
200
No
$1,039,127
2 879
1 386
1 223
270
No
$1,625,710
2 388
1 114
1 023
251
No
$1,056,600
1 671
765
753
153
No
$450,834
479
192
243
44
9
$0
2 005
949
857
199
No
$1,145,600
1 601
718
733
150
No
$139,561
2 042
949
908
185
No
$646,513
1 946
903
845
198
No
$794,033
2 053
928
921
204
No
$295,500
2 810
1 323
1 234
253
No
$919,500
1 634
731
756
147
No
$70,000
1 879
866
823
190
No
$674,725
2 645
1 257
1 154
234
No
$1,069,700
1 908
873
836
199
No
$632,350
1 977
915
875
187
No
$600,475
2 268
1 065
1 005
198
No
$725,075
2 056
967
891
198
No
$999,025
2 464
1 145
1 065
254
No
$899,525
2 076
966
906
204
No
$811,000
2 263
1 054
983
226
No
$844,413
2 062
955
904
203
No
$657,050
2 760
1 303
1 213
244
No
$887,340
2 636
1 237
1 145
254
No
$1,004,550
2 046
951
904
191
No
$696,650
1 131
491
532
108
16
$0
1 369
606
621
142
No
$240,500
1 567
697
732
138
19
$0
1 446
642
674
130
No
$44,500
1 192
516
550
126
15
$0
2 032
929
891
212
No
$598,525
2 177
1 002
963
212
No
$542,800
2 012
928
893
191
No
$569,000
2 384
1 117
1 041
226
No
$903,000
2 222
1 039
958
225
No
$988,500
1 947
924
849
174
No
$937,013
2 010
923
901
186
No
$440,045
1 823
806
827
190
19
$0
1 039
441
479
119
18
$0
1 072
460
500
112
15
$0
1 924
895
856
173
No
$589,367
1 461
641
675
145
19
$0
1 744
791
781
172
No
$396,700
1 898
864
846
188
No
$411,500
2 140
999
943
198
No
$747,000
1 891
874
842
175
No
$486,650
1 598
710
737
151
18
$0
1 867
843
831
193
No
$414,000
2 229
1 028
986
215
No
$549,663
2 066
954
924
188
No
$507,000
1 925
883
848
194
No
$607,125
1 611
730
746
135
No
$148,000
1 640
727
736
177
No
$183,755
2 306
1 068
1 018
220
No
$636,846
1 759
778
797
184
No
$116,433
1 895
861
856
178
No
$296,366
1 935
881
853
201
No
$533,500
595
240
294
61
10
$0
2 535
1 197
1 102
236
No
$1,028,309
2 078
957
906
215
No
$728,025
2 239
1 060
981
198
No
$961,265
1 577
704
724
149
18
$0
2 452
1 147
1 058
247
No
$994,998
1 954
915
856
183
No
$786,500
2 255
1 053
996
206
No
$745,013
1 094
478
514
102
15
$0
845
360
409
76
13
$0
845
360
401
84
12
$0
1 121
492
529
100
15
$0
2 228
1 053
956
219
No
$1,044,160
2 378
1 092
1 032
254
No
$762,459
1 594
721
724
149
No
$276,500
2 345
1 088
1 027
230
No
$772,544
2 345
1 074
1 026
245
No
$640,387
973
414
456
103
13
$0
1 919
892
845
182
No
$680,586
1 712
768
767
177
No
$309,809
622
260
308
54
12
$0
1 875
865
818
192
No
$721,700
1 945
888
884
173
No
$315,672
2 123
998
939
186
No
$789,537
1 903
869
855
179
No
$369,500
2 153
988
949
216
No
$533,346
1 900
876
853
171
No
$496,710
1 768
816
782
170
No
$621,326
1 961
891
871
199
No
$465,675
1 593
698
728
167
No
$34,371
1 727
763
769
195
No
$272,075
2 218
1 032
978
208
No
$656,000
2 027
936
890
201
No
$610,575
2 047
954
902
191
No
$684,916
1 781
799
819
163
18
$0
2 179
988
979
212
No
$200,349
2 045
918
910
217
No
$329,391
2 155
980
951
224
No
$442,609
1 743
795
775
173
No
$465,500
1 743
782
797
164
No
$152,420
2 047
941
917
189
No
$463,225
2 000
915
883
202
No
$505,100
2 085
963
930
192
No
$557,075
2 011
917
895
199
No
$405,875
1 996
931
896
169
No
$595,550
1 782
801
798
183
No
$206,662
1 686
736
762
188
17
$0
2 110
963
920
227
No
$636,025
2 416
1 136
1 052
228
No
$961,267
1 584
705
730
149
No
$128,500
2 174
1 011
940
223
No
$893,100
2 595
1 227
1 113
255
No
$1,138,079
2 363
1 125
1 024
214
No
$1,119,145
1 992
927
889
176
No
$595,235
1 843
865
813
165
No
$753,113
847
362
401
84
12
$0
1 792
816
805
171
No
$366,908
1 731
775
794
162
No
$121,000
2 259
1 068
993
198
No
$913,150
2 302
1 048
1 031
223
No
$337,100
2 175
1 010
950
215
No
$786,162
2 115
967
936
212
No
$508,033
1 832
851
791
190
No
$855,500
1 224
532
573
119
17
$0
1 967
903
885
179
No
$414,050
2 084
974
934
176
No
$596,600
2 373
1 127
1 015
231
No
$1,279,000
1 987
925
896
166
No
$539,125
1 946
884
878
184
No
$341,550
1 828
835
817
176
No
$474,000
984
430
472
82
14
$0
2 495
1 154
1 078
263
No
$869,699
2 100
963
919
218
No
$605,725
769
324
371
74
11
$0
1 942
886
871
185
No
$386,800
1 799
828
814
157
No
$450,500
2 217
1 022
967
228
No
$674,650
1 825
837
822
166
No
$407,600
1 722
772
784
166
No
$185,600
2 370
1 112
1 029
229
No
$988,500
1 234
539
571
124
17
$0
2 193
1 005
974
214
No
$533,500
1 934
934
840
160
No
$1,160,000
1 743
784
773
186
No
$366,500
1 926
895
866
165
No
$559,567
1 393
614
647
132
18
$0
2 189
1 036
965
188
No
$872,575
1 275
565
599
111
18
$0
1 540
680
708
152
19
$0
2 145
1 012
946
187
No
$816,095
1 452
643
665
144
No
$137,844
2 283
1 095
994
194
No
$1,139,761
595
244
294
57
10
$0
2 017
926
892
199
No
$579,286
1 915
922
832
161
No
$1,107,000
1 822
842
806
174
No
$581,000
1 972
881
880
211
No
$195,815
2 161
990
977
194
No
$295,225
2 029
936
914
179
No
$454,789
2 125
987
951
187
No
$515,500
1 673
761
742
170
No
$457,249
1 709
790
773
146
No
$465,025
2 027
948
896
183
No
$672,000
1 829
859
813
157
No
$730,500
2 105
981
929
195
No
$694,113
1 988
918
880
190
No
$645,000
2 082
923
922
237
No
$239,349
1 123
484
527
112
13
$0
2 094
946
932
216
No
$345,513
2 378
1 129
1 043
206
No
$904,297
1 193
517
555
121
19
$0
1 937
879
886
172
No
$199,150
1 992
917
870
205
No
$683,010
2 218
1 004
995
219
No
$287,405
1 119
486
525
108
17
$0
1 943
884
852
207
No
$574,000
2 139
990
946
203
No
$627,496
1 432
629
661
142
19
$0
1 569
720
723
126
No
$250,125
1 617
735
744
138
No
$203,420
1 665
743
767
155
19
$0
732
316
362
54
10
$0
1 528
682
707
139
18
$0
1 926
884
877
165
No
$308,650
1 559
709
700
150
No
$409,500
2 200
1 019
979
202
No
$563,075
3 021
1 463
1 283
275
No
$1,718,342
2 247
1 038
992
217
No
$548,716
teliot
teliot
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Joined: Oct 19, 2009
June 24th, 2015 at 11:53:45 AM permalink
Quote: charliepatrick

It looks very risky, this is the result of running 10,000 shoes.
Runs : 413
Went Bust : 75 times
Average take out = $477,261.34.

Can you just run yours in a loop and collect overall statistics, rather than printing out each run? As you might imagine, 473 does not seem like very many.
Climate Casino: https://climatecasino.net/climate-casino/
charliepatrick
charliepatrick
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Joined: Jun 17, 2011
June 24th, 2015 at 12:58:24 PM permalink
Total Runs : 43,411 (2nd run: 43,472)
Bust : 7,827 (7,917) (or had less than $100 left).
Average Payout = $471,443.85 ($470,805.70).
Over half the time you don't get your money back (51.151%).
Low
High
Runs
Payout
% (runs)
$0
$1,000
7 827
$ 117 707
18.030%
$1,000
$50,000
324
$ 10 151 833
0.746%
$50,000
$100,000
795
$ 61 628 101
1.831%
$100,000
$150,000
1 188
$ 149 939 838
2.737%
$150,000
$200,000
1 553
$ 273 306 285
3.577%
$200,000
$250,000
1 827
$ 412 938 931
4.209%
$250,000
$300,000
2 001
$ 551 374 281
4.609%
$300,000
$350,000
2 166
$ 704 015 384
4.990%
$350,000
$400,000
2 239
$ 838 478 710
5.158%
$400,000
$450,000
2 285
$ 971 009 466
5.264%
$450,000
$500,000
2 225
$1 055 781 687
5.125%
$500,000
$550,000
1 987
$1 043 996 481
4.577%
$550,000
$600,000
2 092
$1 202 646 811
4.819%
$600,000
$650,000
1 901
$1 187 662 470
4.379%
$650,000
$700,000
1 841
$1 241 450 488
4.241%
$700,000
$750,000
1 624
$1 176 462 195
3.741%
$750,000
$800,000
1 463
$1 133 431 921
3.370%
$800,000
$850,000
1 307
$1 076 177 673
3.011%
$850,000
$900,000
1 059
$ 925 856 187
2.439%
$900,000
$950,000
964
$ 890 910 394
2.221%
$950,000
$1,000,000
838
$ 816 126 479
1.930%
$1,000,000
$1,050,000
752
$ 770 061 936
1.732%
$1,050,000
$1,100,000
622
$ 668 253 678
1.433%
$1,100,000
$1,150,000
496
$ 557 507 090
1.143%
$1,150,000
$1,200,000
421
$ 494 786 789
0.970%
$1,200,000
$1,250,000
345
$ 422 753 058
0.795%
$1,250,000
$1,300,000
257
$ 327 145 951
0.592%
$1,300,000
$1,350,000
207
$ 274 133 991
0.477%
$1,350,000
$1,400,000
186
$ 255 744 072
0.428%
$1,400,000
$1,450,000
134
$ 190 715 710
0.309%
$1,450,000
$1,500,000
130
$ 191 612 980
0.299%
$1,500,000
$1,550,000
95
$ 144 738 237
0.219%
$1,550,000
$1,600,000
73
$ 115 149 295
0.168%
$1,600,000
$1,650,000
48
$ 77 858 471
0.111%
$1,650,000
$1,700,000
40
$ 66 943 893
0.092%
$1,700,000
$1,750,000
31
$ 53 443 951
0.071%
$1,750,000
$1,800,000
16
$ 28 474 541
0.037%
$1,800,000
$1,850,000
14
$ 25 516 102
0.032%
$1,850,000
$1,900,000
7
$ 13 082 241
0.016%
$1,900,000
$1,950,000
7
$ 13 406 838
0.016%
$1,950,000
$2,000,000
2
$ 3 954 225
0.005%
$2,000,000
$2,050,000
8
$ 16 200 939
0.018%
$2,050,000
$2,100,000
3
$ 6 189 693
0.007%
$2,150,000
$2,200,000
3
$ 6 522 411
0.007%
$2,200,000
$2,250,000
2
$ 4 422 553
0.005%
$2,250,000
$2,300,000
4
$ 9 107 583
0.009%
$2,300,000
$2,350,000
2
$ 4 659 457
0.005%
teliot
teliot
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Joined: Oct 19, 2009
June 24th, 2015 at 1:36:17 PM permalink
Another point here. According to my sims, if the Tie bet pays 9-to-1 (who knows?), then you are better off making Tie bets instead of Banker bets (although the RoR goes up).
Climate Casino: https://climatecasino.net/climate-casino/
ssho88
ssho88
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June 24th, 2015 at 2:57:22 PM permalink
Quote: teliot

Another point here. According to my sims, if the Tie bet pays 9-to-1 (who knows?), then you are better off making Tie bets instead of Banker bets (although the RoR goes up).



Take up an offer will cost you 60K, we are planning to take up the offer for 20 times ONLY. Theoretically, if you have BR= 60k * 20 = 1200k, you will not going to bust after 20 no of purchases. With BR=450k, what is ROR ? It's similar to trip risk, not long term risk. Am I missing something ?
teliot
teliot
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Joined: Oct 19, 2009
June 24th, 2015 at 3:34:17 PM permalink
Quote: ssho88

Take up an offer will cost you 60K, we are planning to take up the offer for 20 times ONLY. Theoretically, if you have BR= 60k * 20 = 1200k, you will not going to bust after 20 no of purchases. With BR=450k, what is ROR ? It's similar to trip risk, not long term risk. Am I missing something ?

Better get it while it's hot!

http://apheat.net/2015/06/24/a-baccarat-promotion-designed-for-advantage-players/
Climate Casino: https://climatecasino.net/climate-casino/
ssho88
ssho88
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Joined: Oct 16, 2011
June 24th, 2015 at 3:55:07 PM permalink
We have played for 16 times, 4 more to go ! Results ? Slightly lower than the expected value. :=)
teliot
teliot
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Joined: Oct 19, 2009
June 24th, 2015 at 4:00:40 PM permalink
Quote: ssho88

We have played for 16 times, 4 more to go ! Results ? Slightly lower than the expected value. :=)

You are too funny! Honestly, I suspected you must already be there playing, even when you first posted. Right?
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ssho88
ssho88
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Joined: Oct 16, 2011
June 24th, 2015 at 4:05:25 PM permalink
Quote: teliot

You are too funny! Honestly, I suspected you must already be there playing, even when you first posted. Right?



We started 8 days ago. It will end soon. Sri Lanka ?
teliot
teliot
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June 24th, 2015 at 4:15:20 PM permalink
Quote: ssho88

We started 8 days ago. It will end soon. Sri Lanka ?

Why stop at 20? Too much cash to carry out of the country? Worried about being detained at the border if you don't give a large enough bribe?

http://www.blackjackforumonline.com/content/TravelerInterview.htm
Climate Casino: https://climatecasino.net/climate-casino/
Boz
Boz
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June 24th, 2015 at 4:39:07 PM permalink
Sounds like someone did the math at the casino.....incorrectly. Hit it while you can because many are trying to find the casino in question as we speak. Some to exploit it and some to advise them of the errors of their ways ( for a price of course)
teliot
teliot
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June 24th, 2015 at 4:58:58 PM permalink
Quote: Boz

and some to advise them of the errors of their ways ( for a price of course)

I am not charging nor looking for $$$ here, someone else you know? Or is this more unfounded speculation about me, the type that goes on and on ...
Climate Casino: https://climatecasino.net/climate-casino/
Boz
Boz
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June 24th, 2015 at 5:35:46 PM permalink
Quote: teliot

I am not charging nor looking for $$$ here, someone else you know? Or is this more unfounded speculation about me, the type that goes on and on ...



I missed where I mentioned your name, something I missed?
teliot
teliot
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June 24th, 2015 at 5:47:34 PM permalink
Quote: Boz

I missed where I mentioned your name, something I missed?

Then who is trying to find the casino "as we speak" to advise them of their errors, for a price? You really think there is a person on the planet doing that? I am the only person on the planet I know who is seeking to advise them (whoever they are) of their error. You must really know some people.

"Hey you guys, you over there in that casino, you made an error with one of your promotions, look here, I can prove it! Just pay me some $$$ and I'll tell you."
Climate Casino: https://climatecasino.net/climate-casino/
ssho88
ssho88
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June 24th, 2015 at 6:46:49 PM permalink
Quote: teliot

Why stop at 20? Too much cash to carry out of the country? Worried about being detained at the border if you don't give a large enough bribe?

http://www.blackjackforumonline.com/content/TravelerInterview.htm



Because we don't want the casino to blacklist us(if we win too much). We will be back to that casino in future if the promotion still exist.
ssho88
ssho88
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June 24th, 2015 at 6:56:18 PM permalink
Quote: teliot

Better get it while it's hot!

http://apheat.net/2015/06/24/a-baccarat-promotion-designed-for-advantage-players/



Your win% in your post is percent of sessions end with BR > 60K. I am talking about ROR with BR=450k when you play from session 1 to session 20, what is the probability that you lose all $450k before session 20 ? Anyway it does not matter as we already stop playing.


Edit : My programmer told me that, I can't really understand it will :=)
surrender88s
surrender88s
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June 24th, 2015 at 6:57:09 PM permalink
Guys, i found the casino: it's the Revel in AC.
"Rule No.1: Never lose money. Rule No.2: Never forget rule No.1." -Warren Buffett on risk/return
teliot
teliot
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June 24th, 2015 at 7:20:13 PM permalink
Ss, I didn't answer or even consider that question. Good luck.
Climate Casino: https://climatecasino.net/climate-casino/
ssho88
ssho88
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June 24th, 2015 at 7:26:21 PM permalink
Quote: teliot

Ss, I didn't answer or even consider that question. Good luck.



Thanks for your time. It's fun talking with you. We will ask you again if we have maths/promotion questions.

Heading to REVEL, AC ?
kman
kman
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June 25th, 2015 at 12:28:01 AM permalink
Since I was banned for 3 days for, lol, "personal insults," I didn't have a chance to defend myself.

I never said anything about stealing code or Eliot not having written his own code. I have no idea where someone would get that idea. I believe I wanted the code so I could work out a collusion strategy and not have to start from scratch.

There is nothing wrong with doing work for profit. I have no problem with and respect many darksiders - Zender, Dancer, etc. They are up front and clear about what they do.

Eliot's constant self-love about intellectual pursuits and education is my problem. I don't care enough to go through his entire blog history and pull up examples, but they are numerous. I believe there's one where he rambles on about Newton and compares his work to being in the same vein as Newton's HAH.

I'd guess the people who don't understand why I asked for his source code are not programmers. The merits of open source have been examined and debated in depth. Someone who supposedly does his work largely for intellectual or educational purposes should know about it.

A few quick reasons why -
Peer checking helps find any bugs.
You can expand on the code to solve similar problems.
You can learn quite a bit from examining someone else's code to see exactly how they did something.

In short, everything that a supposed advocate of education/intellectual pursuits should support. Google to find more reasons. Open source equals better results, period - if that is your goal.

Eliot's book and actions afterwards have been discussed already. Again, I have an issue with someone who says the things he does and then makes a blatant move against it. I have NO problem with the action itself. My problem is pretending to do all of these things for the love of intellectual pursuits and education.

I was not aware he put the content back up. That is good. Perhaps he realized it was not in line with his philosophy.
jeffwarren75
jeffwarren75
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June 25th, 2015 at 2:56:06 AM permalink
Bob dancer is not even remotely upfront about what he does so you may want to check that again
Boz
Boz
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June 25th, 2015 at 3:28:54 AM permalink
Quote: teliot

Then who is trying to find the casino "as we speak" to advise them of their errors, for a price? You really think there is a person on the planet doing that? I am the only person on the planet I know who is seeking to advise them (whoever they are) of their error. You must really know some people.

"Hey you guys, you over there in that casino, you made an error with one of your promotions, look here, I can prove it! Just pay me some $$$ and I'll tell you."



Well someone tipped Revel off about potential VP issues with the "You can't lose" promo and there was plenty of speculation about it on here and I don't think your name came up.
ssho88
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June 25th, 2015 at 4:01:00 AM permalink
Quote: teliot

Why stop at 20? Too much cash to carry out of the country? Worried about being detained at the border if you don't give a large enough bribe?

http://www.blackjackforumonline.com/content/TravelerInterview.htm



We have left the country and landed safely at other country's airport 30 minutes ago. Just to inform that we not even give a dollar to the custom officers at airport where we left six hours ago. Bribe ? Not as bad as you think ! :=)
teliot
teliot
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June 25th, 2015 at 6:04:28 AM permalink
Quote: kman

Eliot's constant self-love about intellectual pursuits and education is my problem.


I have absolutely no problem with this. I was a professor for 26 years. What do you expect?

Quote: kman

I believe there's one where he rambles on about Newton and compares his work to being in the same vein as Newton's HAH.


I just Googled/Searched "Newton" on my blog. I invite you to do the same. I quote Newton's First Law twice. That's it.

Quote: Hole-Carding, 101

Isaac Newton’s first law of motion is that an object in motion stays in motion until an external force acts on it. In other words, unless the dealer consciously stops the upward motion of his hand, his hole-card may be exposed.


Quote: The Not-So-Ideal iDEAL Shuffler

According to Newton’s First Law, the cards will continue up until the dealer acts to change the direction of his motion.


Next time, get your sources of information in hand before you make your outrageous claims.
Climate Casino: https://climatecasino.net/climate-casino/
teliot
teliot
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June 25th, 2015 at 6:15:00 AM permalink
Quote: Boz

Well someone tipped Revel off about potential VP issues with the "You can't lose" promo and there was plenty of speculation about it on here and I don't think your name came up.

Point made and granted. I was thinking more about table games in reference to your question, though I admit to forgetting this case and know the person you are referring to (he has very little table games knowledge). Do you have another example, w/r/t table games? Someone you know who could actually take what ssho88 said and try and do what you claimed? It appeared from how you wrote your claim that you know several such people. You said "some" and that usually means more than one.
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Boz
Boz
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June 25th, 2015 at 9:17:48 AM permalink
Quote: teliot

Point made and granted. I was thinking more about table games in reference to your question, though I admit to forgetting this case and know the person you are referring to (he has very little table games knowledge). Do you have another example, w/r/t table games? Someone you know who could actually take what ssho88 said and try and do what you claimed? It appeared from how you wrote your claim that you know several such people. You said "some" and that usually means more than one.



I not naming names on here and stick by my statement. I don't have an issue with people making a living helping casinos. We all have to make a living. Mike worked for Venetian and is still highly respected, you and others have done the same and I am sure there are many we don't know about. By no means am I saying Mike is someone who would do that, but there are those who would. My point was that it is best to keep your mouth shut unless you want to risk the end of an opportunity you have found because it is going to be attacked on both fronts, other AP players and Casino Advisors. Both are looking for their share of the money. Nothing earth shattering there.
teliot
teliot
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June 25th, 2015 at 9:24:56 AM permalink
Quote: Boz

My point was that it is best to keep your mouth shut unless you want to risk the end of an opportunity you have found because it is going to be attacked on both fronts, other AP players and Casino Advisors.

I almost agree. In the case of ssho88, I suspect he asked his question because his team was well below EV and he wanted a double-check of their internal results. His question about RoR made me think that they were quite a bit below EV, possibly even in danger of losing their entire bankroll. So, there may have been some justification for him to ask his questions here. He asked his question during the middle of his team's play. However, some other AP team might now look for this promotion and burn it out. Likewise, the targeted casino may learn directly from reading here (or on my blog) or have some other casino contact them, given this public exposure. So, in any event, what ssho88 did was not in his best interest if he was interested in prolonging the opportunity beyond his team's stay. It looks like his team's strategy was "burn and run."
Climate Casino: https://climatecasino.net/climate-casino/
supergrass
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June 25th, 2015 at 10:00:25 AM permalink
Each buy in has EV of 20k and the OP said they plan to play 20 buy ins. For a 400k potential profit I think very easy to hire an additional programmer or 5 programmers to double check simulation result. Instead of asking for "free" advice on a public board. I suspect the casino is in seoul.
ssho88
ssho88
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June 25th, 2015 at 10:32:50 AM permalink
Quote: supergrass

Each buy in has EV of 20k and the OP said they plan to play 20 buy ins. For a ~400k potential profit I think very easy to hire an additional programmer, or 5 programmers to double check simulation result. Instead of asking for "free" advice on a public board.

I suspect the casino is in seoul.



Then you should send a team there before they withdraw the offer.
teliot
teliot
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June 25th, 2015 at 10:49:03 AM permalink
Quote: ssho88

Then you should send a team there before they withdraw the offer.

Ssho88, do you know 5 other programmers (not me) that you could pay to do this for you and double-check your team's results? Another way of asking this: about how many competent computer programmers who can do advantage play analysis do you know on the AP side?
Climate Casino: https://climatecasino.net/climate-casino/
DRich
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June 25th, 2015 at 11:02:09 AM permalink
Quote: teliot

Ssho88, do you know 5 other programmers (not me) that you could pay to do this for you and double-check your team's results? Another way of asking this: about how many competent computer programmers who can do advantage play analysis do you know on the AP side?



I would guess that there might be five or more here that participate on this site.
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
ssho88
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June 25th, 2015 at 11:03:12 AM permalink
Quote: teliot

I almost agree. In the case of ssho88, I suspect he asked his question because his team was well below EV and he wanted a double-check of their internal results. His question about RoR made me think that they were quite a bit below EV, possibly even in danger of losing their entire bankroll. So, there may have been some justification for him to ask his questions here. He asked his question during the middle of his team's play. However, some other AP team might now look for this promotion and burn it out. Likewise, the targeted casino may learn directly from reading here (or on my blog) or have some other casino contact them, given this public exposure. So, in any event, what ssho88 did was not in his best interest if he was interested in prolonging the opportunity beyond his team's stay. It looks like his team's strategy was "burn and run."



Our results well below EV ? With such high EV and large bankroll, do you think that we care about the ROR at the near end of our play ?

We never believe in prolonging opportunity, our strategy is burn/hit and run. If we can find it and beat it, others will be able to do the same,there are more smart APs than you can imagine.

How on earth you can find a land based casino that pay 1 to 9 for TIE bet and yet with this promotion ? You are always come out with something that does not even exist. Can you imagine that we can find a BANKER bet with no commission(max bet $50) and player have +ve EV ?
charliepatrick
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June 25th, 2015 at 11:05:39 AM permalink
Quote: teliot

...do you know 5 other programmers (not me)...

I agree it takes a lot of skill to develop some of the software needed to come up with some of the answers, including others on this forum. Unless one has already done it, the time delay from scratch would be weeks (and that assumes the programmer understands statistics, some of the measures needed) and includes developing a way to prove your random number generator and shuffling/dealing program work.
Admittedly once one has developed
(a) A random number generator
(b) A shuffling and dealing program
(c) Algorithms for playing various games (in this case something to determine Player and Banker rules)
(d) An understanding of the results needed
(e) Methods to collate results (this is probably the easiest)
It's reasonably easy, but still takes some time.

Also, unless you're asking two independent programmers, one would really want to develop two different ways to test the results. Typically for a new game, this might be infinite deck analysis (to get a rough idea) before trying a finite deck one.
ssho88
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June 25th, 2015 at 11:21:16 AM permalink
Quote: charliepatrick

I agree it takes a lot of skill to develop some of the software needed to come up with some of the answers, including others on this forum. Unless one has already done it, the time delay from scratch would be weeks (and that assumes the programmer understands statistics, some of the measures needed) and includes developing a way to prove your random number generator and shuffling/dealing program work.
Admittedly once one has developed
(a) A random number generator
(b) A shuffling and dealing program
(c) Algorithms for playing various games (in this case something to determine Player and Banker rules)
(d) An understanding of the results needed
(e) Methods to collate results (this is probably the easiest)
It's reasonably easy, but still takes some time.

Also, unless you're asking two independent programmers, one would really want to develop two different ways to test the results. Typically for a new game, this might be infinite deck analysis (to get a rough idea) before trying a finite deck one.




20 buy ins, bet size=$10k, each buy in will last for about 97 rounds. With BR=$450k, what is the probability that AP will lose the entire BR before buy ins no 20 ? Is the ROR=1.52 % ?( from my programmer). Although our 20 buy ins was a small sample, but our team will counter check it with the theoretical results after each play, regardless of win or lose.
bigfoot66
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June 25th, 2015 at 12:21:13 PM permalink
Quote: Mission146

Brilliant!!!

There's another excellent perspective that plays into my Microeconomics point:

Let us consider a world where there are no beatable promotions, beatable table games and probably to a lesser extent, beatable slots. I believe that Teliot may well go back to being a professor in such a world. I also think that, with no AP's to speak of, there are likely going to be fewer jobs in surveillance, as well. Also, if there are no AP's, and if we assume that many AP's would not frequent casinos if there is nothing to AP, then there are less people in the casino which might create less of a need for cocktail waitresses, slot attendants and the like.

Let's take it a step further and we'll also eliminate cheaters and thieves, who have nothing to do with AP, but there are casino positions that exist to combat them. At this point, you're going to have, what, maybe one person whose job it is to watch the Tables on the camera just for honest-to-goodness payout mistakes? I'm not saying that thieves and cheaters are necessarily an Economic positive, but on the other hand, employing the people that have to deal with thieves and cheaters do result in such people getting checks and buying Base Goods.

Also, without all of the above people, if one owned a casino, one would likely not seek out the most advanced surveillance equipment because a simple setup would likely be sufficient if all one is really watching for is legitimate dealer mistakes.

Thus, it could be argued that, in spite of Marketing people whose heads may roll (and will likely be replaced) that Advantage Players create jobs in casinos simply by attempting to win money at the casino. It is also arguable that cheaters and thieves create jobs because someone has to be employed to try to stop them from doing what they are doing.



This post shows everything that is wrong with Keynesianism. Why the love affair with jobs for their own sake? Jobs suck! wouldn't we prefer a world where we could have the same standard of living but no jobs? The world would be a better place without AP's, cheats, etc. Instead of spending time doing these activities, people could either engage in other productive activities OR even engage in leisure without decreasing the standard of living. If James Grosjean used his incredible intellect towards something productive like running a company instead of analyzing card games the world would be a richer place. James Grosjean spending 60 hours a week sitting at a blackjack table does not make the world a better place.
Vote for Nobody 2020!
AceTwo
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June 25th, 2015 at 1:06:55 PM permalink
Quote: ssho88


We never believe in prolonging opportunity, our strategy is burn/hit and run. If we can find it and beat it, others will be able to do the same,there are more smart APs than you can imagine.



I do not understand why you advertised the game here for free.
Especially the name of the country. You got the infor you wanted and confirmation of your Ev calculations, why name the country?
Without the name of the country the information would have been mostly useless.
With the name of the country the information are valuable.

I am pretty sure there are APs out there who would pay for this info in money or with info on other AP opportunities.
Mission146
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June 25th, 2015 at 2:01:26 PM permalink
Quote: bigfoot66



This post shows everything that is wrong with Keynesianism. Why the love affair with jobs for their own sake? Jobs suck! wouldn't we prefer a world where we could have the same standard of living but no jobs? The world would be a better place without AP's, cheats, etc. Instead of spending time doing these activities, people could either engage in other productive activities OR even engage in leisure without decreasing the standard of living. If James Grosjean used his incredible intellect towards something productive like running a company instead of analyzing card games the world would be a richer place. James Grosjean spending 60 hours a week sitting at a blackjack table does not make the world a better place.



It has nothing to do with jobs in and of themselves, it has to do with money moving and the consumption of Base Goods. Of course, jobs are currently the primary means by which money moves and people buy base goods. Theoretically, maybe you could have a world where only a minimum amount of people have to have jobs, but that does nothing to defeat Keynesianism, because that's not the court where we're playing ball.

In terms of societal utility, I suppose there are, "Better," things that someone with a mind such as Grosjean's could be doing. However, in terms of Grosjean's personal utility, given your position that Grosjean could do just about anything, and making the assumption that Grosjean knows that, leads me to believe that Grosjean is doing what he most wants to be doing.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
TwoFeathersATL
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June 25th, 2015 at 2:45:53 PM permalink
Quote: Mission146

It has nothing to do with jobs in and of themselves, it has to do with money moving and the consumption of Base Goods. Of course, jobs are currently the primary means by which money moves and people buy base goods. Theoretically, maybe you could have a world where only a minimum amount of people have to have jobs, but that does nothing to defeat Keynesianism, because that's not the court where we're playing ball.

In terms of societal utility, I suppose there are, "Better," things that someone with a mind such as Grosjean's could be doing. However, in terms of Grosjean's personal utility, given your position that Grosjean could do just about anything, and making the assumption that Grosjean knows that, leads me to believe that Grosjean is doing what he most wants to be doing.


Holy jhit! There are some smart people hangin' round here!
I think I'll come back tomorrow, I might learn sumtin......
Youuuuuu MIGHT be a 'rascal' if.......(nevermind ;-)...2F
ssho88
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June 25th, 2015 at 3:24:55 PM permalink
Quote: AceTwo

I do not understand why you advertised the game here for free.
Especially the name of the country. You got the infor you wanted and confirmation of your Ev calculations, why name the country?
Without the name of the country the information would have been mostly useless.
With the name of the country the information are valuable.

I am pretty sure there are APs out there who would pay for this info in money or with info on other AP opportunities.




From our experience, all the games attacked by us will not last long, that's why we don't mine to mention the country name. Do you think that we are so stupid to burn our own game before we play it ?
bigfoot66
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June 25th, 2015 at 4:20:30 PM permalink
Quote: Mission146

It has nothing to do with jobs in and of themselves, it has to do with money moving and the consumption of Base Goods. Of course, jobs are currently the primary means by which money moves and people buy base goods. Theoretically, maybe you could have a world where only a minimum amount of people have to have jobs, but that does nothing to defeat Keynesianism, because that's not the court where we're playing ball.

In terms of societal utility, I suppose there are, "Better," things that someone with a mind such as Grosjean's could be doing. However, in terms of Grosjean's personal utility, given your position that Grosjean could do just about anything, and making the assumption that Grosjean knows that, leads me to believe that Grosjean is doing what he most wants to be doing.



Consumption does not make the world a richer place, investment and production do. Moving money does not help the economy either, if it did then pyramid schemes would be a major economic stimulus. I do not begrudge Grosjean for using his potential to destroy games instead of running a company, but the point is that gambling is a zero sum game: Grosjean wins and is better off, Loveman loses and is worse off to an equal degree. When you are running a hotel, both you and your customer win: Your customer gets use of a hotel room which he values more than his $100, You get his $100 which you value more than the hotel room. Both parties are better off and WEALTH IS CREATED OUT OF THIN AIR!

Moving money is not good in and of itself, it is good because it is a measure of how many of these transactions take place. In the hotel example, the traveler might value the hotel room at $200 but he only has to pay $100, thus he has effectively become $100 wealthier by trading with you. Likewise you only spend $80 per room night to build and maintain the hotel, so you have created an additional $20 of wealth for yourself. When the $100 moves from his pocket to your cash register, it lets us know that some amount of new wealth was created. You are celebrating AP's who do not create new wealth in their activities.
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MaxPen
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June 25th, 2015 at 5:26:17 PM permalink
Quote: Mission146

It has nothing to do with jobs in and of themselves, it has to do with money moving and the consumption of Base Goods. Of course, jobs are currently the primary means by which money moves and people buy base goods. Theoretically, maybe you could have a world where only a minimum amount of people have to have jobs, but that does nothing to defeat Keynesianism, because that's not the court where we're playing ball.

In terms of societal utility, I suppose there are, "Better," things that someone with a mind such as Grosjean's could be doing. However, in terms of Grosjean's personal utility, given your position that Grosjean could do just about anything, and making the assumption that Grosjean knows that, leads me to believe that Grosjean is doing what he most wants to be doing.



How's that Keynesian system working out for you. If you're the one in control it's currently great. Just about ready to put the final nails in the coffin for the have nots.
https://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/M2V/

I find it ironic that success is measured in debt. We need to get a reality check. I prefer the Austrian system myself.
https://mises.org/about-mises
bigfoot66
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June 25th, 2015 at 5:31:20 PM permalink
Quote: MaxPen

I prefer the Austrian system myself.
https://mises.org/about-mises



“The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they understand about what they imagine they can design.”

F.A. Hayek, The Fatal Conceit
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MaxPen
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June 25th, 2015 at 5:35:29 PM permalink
Quote: bigfoot66

Quote: MaxPen

I prefer the Austrian system myself.
https://mises.org/about-mises



“The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they understand about what they imagine they can design.”

F.A. Hayek, The Fatal Conceit



Amen.... ;-)
Mission146
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June 25th, 2015 at 11:09:47 PM permalink
Quote: bigfoot66

Consumption does not make the world a richer place, investment and production do. Moving money does not help the economy either, if it did then pyramid schemes would be a major economic stimulus. I do not begrudge Grosjean for using his potential to destroy games instead of running a company, but the point is that gambling is a zero sum game: Grosjean wins and is better off, Loveman loses and is worse off to an equal degree. When you are running a hotel, both you and your customer win: Your customer gets use of a hotel room which he values more than his $100, You get his $100 which you value more than the hotel room. Both parties are better off and WEALTH IS CREATED OUT OF THIN AIR!



Production without consumption is loss. If nobody consumes that which is produced, then the product has stagnated as has the Economy. That's why the consumption of Base Goods is so important, because any Based Goods that stagnate and are rendered not useful are real, tangible waste.

The Economy is better off with Grosjean having that money because, to some degree, Grosjean will purchase Base Goods.


Quote:

Moving money is not good in and of itself, it is good because it is a measure of how many of these transactions take place. In the hotel example, the traveler might value the hotel room at $200 but he only has to pay $100, thus he has effectively become $100 wealthier by trading with you. Likewise you only spend $80 per room night to build and maintain the hotel, so you have created an additional $20 of wealth for yourself. When the $100 moves from his pocket to your cash register, it lets us know that some amount of new wealth was created. You are celebrating AP's who do not create new wealth in their activities.



AP's don't ever use hotel rooms?

My question is, what is the casino going to be doing with the money that the AP doesn't make from the casino? Is it going to be going into investments? Increasing perceived value to shareholders? Who knows? The one thing that I do know is that it is likely not going to be going towards Base Goods. You need consumption of Base Goods to keep the Economy moving.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
KingoftheEye
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June 26th, 2015 at 9:53:31 AM permalink
Quote: MissEye

Mostly just counters, hole card cheats, not slot AP. And yes, I am proud when I do my job well as anyone should be. I believe in doing well at something I'm paid to do. Guess I'm crazy like that :)



Sorry, I just stumbled upon this thread and had to register and respond here. After years of lurking, this comment shocked me. Most Surveillance Departments are well aware of Slot AP and do look at it. Unfortunately, we run into the same problem that surveillance ran into years ago with the cut card scam: No executives believed it was possible until the evidence was in their face, but most have finally come around. Either MissEye's casino is an anomaly, or she is giving misinformation, or she isn't senior enough to be involved in resource allocation at her site.
AceTwo
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July 2nd, 2015 at 11:01:41 AM permalink
Quote: ssho88

From our experience, all the games attacked by us will not last long, that's why we don't mine to mention the country name. Do you think that we are so stupid to burn our own game before we play it ?



Exactlly because it do not think that you are stupid to burn your own game, or even just increase the probability of burning it sooner by advertising it here, I was puzzled to see the name of the country.
Unless of course the name of the country mentioned is a red herring.
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