Etiquette for Let it Ride

I might play this game for a short session; I'm assuming a long session = too high HE and too boring possibly too

I always like to have a little etiquette under my belt. Some questions:

*are the cards dealt face down [as in the link]? if so, I assume you can pick up the cards?

*Just how exactly do you "pull" bets? literally pick them up, or do you just indicate somehow to the dealer?

game link:
http://www.let-it-ride-online.com/

I hardly play let it ride but I'll try to help. As far as how to touching the cards, yes you can pick them up. I usually only use one hand. There are only 3 cards dealt so you don't really need to handle the cards too much.

As far as "pulling bets back", when it's my turn to act, I normally just scrape or brush the felt with the cards in my direction. It's basically like in a double deck BJ game when the cards are face down and you ask for a hit. This indicates to the dealer to the dealer you would like to pull the bets back and the dealer will touch the chips and push them back toward you and out of the betting circle. Never touch the chips.

The dealer will tell you when it's ok to pick up the cards. Usually right after all cards are laid out and the extras are pulled from the CSM. As for pulling bets, if you are taking a bet back, you just make a swipe motion by the chip. If you are keeping the bet, just put the cards down at the bet. It isn't a bad game to play like you state for short sessions and to have a beer. Have fun.

I'm assuming that, despite the online link, you're going to play B&M.

You must make 3 equal amount bets to start each hand. Most tables also have 2 sidebets: a 3 card pairs plus bet (just above the 3 main bet circles) and a $1 bet bonus or progressive (above the 3 card bet, likely on an electronic spot). Both are optional. The dollar bet is the maximum for that bet, and will be collected before the deal. The others are "to 1" bets and will remain in front of you. If LIR is part of a multigame progressive, the dollar bet may be 5 dollars, but it will be a single amount.

If you are betting the dollar and are out of whites, place a red on the spot for it. The dealer will make change and usually place that bet for you, putting the other 4 whites near you.

You will be dealt 3 cards face down. you can pick them up once the green light goes off on the autoshuffler; it's likely you will be cautioned if you pick them up sooner, but there are casinos that don't care.

If you want to let it ride on the first opportunity, place your cards sideways directly below your 3 bets. Add a waveoff hand signal if/when the dealer points or looks at you (they will check from your right to left). Do not touch your bets.

If you want a bet pulled back, scratch the table with your cards, and the dealer will push your first circle money back.

The dealer will expose 1 card. After they do, you have another opportunity for a pulled bet. If you want to let it ride, cards parallel and wave-off; the dealer may leave it be, or may tuck your cards under the money spot at that point.

If you want the 2nd bet pulled back (no matter what you did with the first one), scratch your cards, and the dealer will push back your middle bet. Once they do, set your cards down or tuck them below the money spot (or wherever the table has them placed). You will not touch your cards again after this point, whether you pulled or waved off.

The dealer will expose the 2nd card, then go from your left to right resolving hands. You should not touch anything until the dealer has collected your cards.

The 3 card bonus pays only on the first 3 cards, no matter what you get in the 4th and 5th cards. The main game pays for your 5 card hand values, as does the dollar bonus.

Quote: beachbumbabs

I'm assuming that, despite the online link, you're going to play B&M.

I don't understand this

Quote: odiousgambit

I don't understand this

You gave an example from online. Lots of online casinos have the game. But from what you asked, it looks like you're playing live at a real ("brick and mortar") casino. That's all. Hope the rest was useful. :)

Quote: beachbumbabs

You gave an example from online. Lots of online casinos have the game. But from what you asked, it looks like you're playing live at a real ("brick and mortar") casino. That's all. Hope the rest was useful. :)

brick and mortar, yes. I am quite allergic to online gambling.

thanks for the help

the link is to a free game btw, so I am practicing. From what I can gather so far, you don't [much] play the Come except on royal and straight flushes, plus the usual 4 to a whatever [the better ones]. That's a simplification of course.

there is so much 'pulling' to the wizard's strategy that I could see getting lulled into making the wrong indication.

As to the boredom factor, it really should be a 7 card thing. With 5 card no draw, hands *do* tend to suck!

PS: Harrah's Cherokee indicates they have the game.

Quote: odiousgambit

brick and mortar, yes. I am quite allergic to online gambling.

thanks for the help

the link is to a free game btw, so I am practicing. From what I can gather so far, you don't [much] play the Come except on royal and straight flushes, plus the usual 4 to a whatever [the better ones]. That's a simplification of course.

there is so much 'pulling' to the wizard's strategy that I could see getting lulled into making the wrong indication.

As to the boredom factor, it really should be a 7 card thing. With 5 card no draw, hands *do* tend to suck!

PS: Harrah's Cherokee indicates they have the game.

In that game, you're hoping for a run of "no-brainer" hands, which is a pair of 10's or higher in the first 3 cards. You stand the whole way.

If you're betting the 3 card sidebet, it's easier to leave your money up there with 3 flush 3 straight, because you're going to get paid for that no matter what cards 4 and 5 bring. But, yeah, it's a very frustrating, low-hit game IMO. I used to enjoy it 20 years ago, but they've come up with better carnival games, so I play those. Can't beat getting a Royal on the game, though. I saw one, once (was sitting next to her). $31 dollars bet won $45,000.

Quote: beachbumbabs

In that game, you're hoping for a run of "no-brainer" hands, which is a pair of 10's or higher in the first 3 cards. You stand the whole way.

just playing the free game, I am forcing myself not to fall into a lull but instead to evaluate the chances of a straight with the 3 cards, figuring a flush chance [or of course a paying pair] will leap out at me. I have always been prone to the error of being sometimes blind to the Come on inside straights at the 3 card point. The nice thing, in this game, doing this certainly lets me know exactly what to look for instantly on all possible paying hands.

As far as getting a good hand, with 5 card no draw, it's the chances of getting dealt a pat hand. Think of that. A pat straight, a pat flush ... I've played enough poker to know that's not one right after the other LOL.

I echo what BBB said, although, I have seen (and used) a couple of different hand signals for LiR, it's not necessarily as rigid as some other games.

For example, I would usually put my cards face down after looking at them, so my signal to let it ride would be waving something similar to a Blackjack, "Stand," signal over my chips. If I wanted to take a bet back, then I would usually put my index and middle finger together, hold my hand sideways, and gesture my index/middle finger towards myself.

Quote: odiousgambit

brick and mortar, yes. I am quite allergic to online gambling.

thanks for the help

the link is to a free game btw, so I am practicing. From what I can gather so far, you don't [much] play the Come except on royal and straight flushes, plus the usual 4 to a whatever [the better ones]. That's a simplification of course.

there is so much 'pulling' to the wizard's strategy that I could see getting lulled into making the wrong indication.

As to the boredom factor, it really should be a 7 card thing. With 5 card no draw, hands *do* tend to suck!

PS: Harrah's Cherokee indicates they have the game.

Yes, losing streaks in let it ride can be longer than almost any other game...in the long-run, you're going to lose about 10 of every 13 hands you play, and so it's not unusual to sit there for an hour and get maybe just a couple "meh, whatever" winning hands. You're (almost of course, the house has an edge!) offsetting these losses with 2x-3x wins when you can let it ride and the big hands. One four-of-a-kind can wipe out a few nights of losing in that game. But it can drag on and get boring quick.

But look up the optimal strategy- don't chase low pairs, three card flushes with no shot at a SF/Royal, etc. Lots of people chase these hands and lose a lot more.

I second what other said concerning protocol in that game. "Let it Ride" is usually signaled with a wave of the hand, just as one would do to "stay" in blackjack, and a swiping/scratching of the cards toward you if you want your bet back. You do not touch your bets after placing them, or until after they are pushed back to you. It's pretty easy.

Kind of remarkable the feel you can get for it with the free game

I'm not sure I am going to be able to make myself play it live after all. The basic game with 5 card no draw has to be the worst game ever invented. About the only similar-in-hands-expectation poker game that gets played much is 5 card stud, I think, but it is best played with a at least 6 players to increase the chances *somebody* will have a decent hand. And you're playing against other people. This LIR game just constantly reminds you how hard it is to get a exceptional pat hand; a similar dynamic somehow just isn't what goes on in 5 card stud.

Everybody must play the side bets in LIR, or not play at all. I can picture the dealer saying he never had any player just play the game with no side bets.

For the basic game, I played about 700 hands without getting anything better than a straight IIRC [maybe a flush], which isn’t enough to get yourself out of the hole that you will be digging for yourself with pairs or trips. After that I lost count; I continue to occasionally play a hand, I must be approaching 1000 hands with nothing big.

If I was a game designer it would tick me off that somebody ever got a piece of crap like this game into the casinos, as I would have to assume just about any kind of half-ass designer would realize 5 card, no draw, is just way too lame. The game must be easy to deal. Does this trump all else?

Quote: odiousgambit

Kind of remarkable the feel you can get for it with the free game

I'm not sure I am going to be able to make myself play it live after all. The basic game with 5 card no draw has to be the worst game ever invented. About the only similar-in-hands-expectation poker game that gets played much is 5 card stud, I think, but it is best played with a at least 6 players to increase the chances *somebody* will have a decent hand. And you're playing against other people. This LIR game just constantly reminds you how hard it is to get a exceptional pat hand; a similar dynamic somehow just isn't what goes on in 5 card stud.

Everybody must play the side bets in LIR, or not play at all. I can picture the dealer saying he never had any player just play the game with no side bets.

For the basic game, I played about 700 hands without getting anything better than a straight IIRC [maybe a flush], which isn’t enough to get yourself out of the hole that you will be digging for yourself with pairs or trips. I continue to occasionally play a hand, I must be approaching 1000 hands with nothing big.

If I was a game designer it would tick me off that somebody ever got a piece of crap like this game into the casinos, as I would have to assume just about any kind of half-ass designer would realize 5 card, no draw, is just way too lame. The game must be easy to deal. Does this trump all else?

In my experience, most dealers find LIR the most boring game to deal. I think it was about the 2nd widely distributed non-BJ non-bacc game 20+ years ago, after Caribbean Stud, and it was a big improvement on that IMO, because the non-qualifier on CS was the biggest damn frustration I've ever seen (you'd get 3OAK or something that paid odds "FINALLY!Q!" and then all you'd get was your ante back because the dealer didn't have AK or better). I've never played a game that I more wanted to just tear up my cards than when that happened.

So LIR, with no dealer qualifier, was a big improvement. And being on a good hand from the start but getting to pull your bet back (2/3 of it anyway) on a meh hand was another unique aspect. But the 80% or so lose got old really quick. Variance is a killer in that game.

And, of course, for us carnival players, better games like 3CP, Boston Stud, Crazy 4, UTH, Double Draw (to name a few) are killing both CS and LIR, but both still have a few fans. And, yeah, if I ever do get a Royal, LIR is where I want it (at 10000:1 x 3 spots, plus the bonus pay) unless I'm playing a 5 card progressive somewhere. But that means I have to sit there and play it...almost a trade-off. Lol...

Quote: beachbumbabs

Variance is a killer in that game. [LIR]

The SD for the game for is 5.17 per Wizard link below. That's caught my interest, but it doesnt play out the way I expected. I thought any game with variance like that would be like Craps with odds, big winning streaks with then the admittedly more likely big losing streaks. This game instead does instead a constant dwindling of the bankroll; I guess a really patient or lucky player gets to see the sweet pat hand that makes all the diff. This dislikable dwindling dynamic surprised me .

Quote:

And, of course, for us carnival players, better games like 3CP, Boston Stud, Crazy 4, UTH, Double Draw (to name a few) are killing both CS and LIR, but both still have a few fans

3CP is available and probably be what I'll diddle with instead. Neither one do I expect to play much, just kind of want to say I've played maybe.

https://wizardofodds.com/gambling/house-edge/

Quote: odiousgambit

Quote: beachbumbabs

Variance is a killer in that game. [LIR]

The SD for the game for is 5.17 per Wizard link below. That's caught my interest, but it doesnt play out the way I expected. I thought any game with variance like that would be like Craps with odds, big winning streaks with then the admittedly more likely big losing streaks. This game instead does instead a constant dwindling of the bankroll; I guess a really patient or lucky player gets to see the sweet pat hand that makes all the diff. This dislikable dwindling dynamic surprised me .



3CP is available and probably be what I'll diddle with instead. Neither one do I expect to play much, just kind of want to say I've played maybe.

https://wizardofodds.com/gambling/house-edge/

You might still give LIR 10-20 hands worth of a chance. At least if you're superstitious; never saw a game throw more beginner's luck great hands. Even some of the dealers think so.

I first saw this game played last summer at a local festival (not my organization). I spoke with the coordinator of the event and he shared that the same players will sit at the table from start to close, every day of the event. They had 3 tables going. While a slow game, it was incredibly profitable for the house.

I definitely want to offer this game at our events going forward. However, it does not come without some challenges. There is no way on this planet that I am going to offer 10,000:1 on a Royal. While the chances of one of these is like 400,000 to 1, just one hit would be catastrophic. I'm thinking something like 50:1 on a royal and going down from there.

To that end, I would need a custom layout and, nobody will make one for me. That's because that game is patented by SHFL Entertainment, Inc. the same people that make the auto-shuffling machines.

The third challenge is that there is a shuffle with each hand. Without a machine, that's a lot of work for a volunteer who is not adept at shuffling cards in the first place.

Remember. too, that you've chosen to play a carnival game because it's fun, not because you are trying to make money (different from winning). If you win, it's going to be fun, even if you've chosen Caribbean Stud. If you lose, it isn't going to be fun. Let It Ride will be a boatload of fun if you are picking up lots of high pairs. Three Card Poker is going to be a real downer if every hand is a variation of 7-4-2 offsuit.

I've played a lot of LIR. Invariably the game falls into one of two patterns:

1) Most commonly, like 2/3 of the time, it bleeds your money away, as odiousgambit has discovered.
2) Less commonly, but pretty thrillingly, you hit a big hand or two or three, and win decent.

There's really nothing in between. You can't lose your bankroll in a flash unless you play stupidly, raising blind. And although it's possible that you can hold your own, win a little/lose a little/break even, that's actually not very common at Let It Ride. (Probably because players who are even keep playing, producing one of the other two results.)

The best Let It Ride game in the country is at Borgata in AC. They have a Pairs Plus bet that pays 50-40-30-6-4-1, for a house edge of a tick over 2%. Everywhere else is the 40-30-6-3-1, about 7.5% house edge. (Ouch!)

Regarding the comment that everyone plays the side bets, that is generally true of the Pairs Plus, regardless of the pay table, but not so much the button bet. About 10% of players I've seen don't play the button, maybe one player for every two tables I sit at.

All that said, Let It Ride isn't the killer game it used to be, not with so many better options, specifically Three Card Poker. Three Card generally goes:

1) Most commonly you win a little, lose a little, finish up down some,
2) Lose it all really fast,
3) Win decent,
4) Win big.

Or Four Card Poker:

1) Lose it all really fast,
2) Win big.

But I'll still give Let It Ride a shot every now and then.

Quote: Riva

I first saw this game played last summer at a local festival (not my organization). I spoke with the coordinator of the event and he shared that the same players will sit at the table from start to close, every day of the event. They had 3 tables going. While a slow game, it was incredibly profitable for the house.

I definitely want to offer this game at our events going forward. However, it does not come without some challenges. There is no way on this planet that I am going to offer 10,000:1 on a Royal. While the chances of one of these is like 400,000 to 1, just one hit would be catastrophic. I'm thinking something like 50:1 on a royal and going down from there.

To that end, I would need a custom layout and, nobody will make one for me. That's because that game is patented by SHFL Entertainment, Inc. the same people that make the auto-shuffling machines.

The third challenge is that there is a shuffle with each hand. Without a machine, that's a lot of work for a volunteer who is not adept at shuffling cards in the first place.

I'm not sure what you're running, but in Let it Ride, a Royal pays 1000:1 on each active bet, not 10,000:1 (though usually the $1 side bonus is 10,000 or 20,000 for 1). Whichever bet you're referring to, 50:1 is the paytable for a four-of-a-kind (on the game) and a flush (on the $1 side bet) so offering that kind of payout on a Royal is absurd. If you can't host the game, don't do it.