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Zcore13
Zcore13
Joined: Nov 30, 2009
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March 21st, 2017 at 8:08:12 PM permalink
Quote: Ibeatyouraces

Of all casino games, I'd say this one probably is played the poorest by the civilians. Mississippi Stud is a close second.



Every game where there is an optimal way play and sub-optimal opportunities is played poorly in casinos. 95% of people don't care. They are there for entertainment.

This goes for video poker, as well as UTH, Three Card Poker, Blackjack, Let it Ride, etc, etc, etc.


ZCore13
I am an employee of a Casino. All the personal opinions I post are my own and do not represent the opinions of the Casino or Tribe that I work for.
Ibeatyouraces
Ibeatyouraces
Joined: Jan 12, 2010
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March 21st, 2017 at 8:10:15 PM permalink
Quote: Zcore13

Every game where there is an optimal way play and sub-optimal opportunities is played poorly in casinos. 95% of people don't care. They are there for entertainment.

This goes for video poker, as well as UTH, Three Card Poker, Blackjack, Let it Ride, etc, etc, etc.


ZCore13


Sure. But some are played a lot worse than others.
"And that's the bottom lineeeee, cuz Stone Cold said so!"
Zcore13
Zcore13
Joined: Nov 30, 2009
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March 21st, 2017 at 9:20:22 PM permalink
Quote: Ibeatyouraces

Sure. But some are played a lot worse than others.



Well, I guess if you want to judge by minor degrees. In general they are a played badly. People don't care. I've told players for 10 years how they can play better.

Players playing blind on Three Card and UTH because they hate to fold a possible winner. Players never hitting a 15 on a dealer 7-A. If it can be played bad, people do it. On every game.


ZCore13
I am an employee of a Casino. All the personal opinions I post are my own and do not represent the opinions of the Casino or Tribe that I work for.
Ibeatyouraces
Ibeatyouraces
Joined: Jan 12, 2010
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March 21st, 2017 at 9:29:41 PM permalink
Quote: Zcore13

I've told players for 10 years how they can play better.


I stopped giving advice years ago. Not worth it when it backfires.
"And that's the bottom lineeeee, cuz Stone Cold said so!"
Zcore13
Zcore13
Joined: Nov 30, 2009
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March 21st, 2017 at 10:54:26 PM permalink
Quote: Ibeatyouraces

I stopped giving advice years ago. Not worth it when it backfires.



I don't do it when I'm playing. Only at work.


ZCore13
I am an employee of a Casino. All the personal opinions I post are my own and do not represent the opinions of the Casino or Tribe that I work for.
odiousgambit
odiousgambit
Joined: Nov 9, 2009
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March 22nd, 2017 at 3:50:59 AM permalink
Quote: Zcore13

Every game where there is an optimal way play and sub-optimal opportunities is played poorly in casinos. 95% of people don't care. They are there for entertainment.

This goes for video poker, as well as UTH, Three Card Poker, Blackjack, Let it Ride, etc, etc, etc.


ZCore13



The remarkable thing to me is that the internet, and now the proliferation of smart phones, doesn't seem to have changed that all that much. From what I can tell people want to listen to someone who's played a lot, figuring they've learned from experience.
"Baccarat is a game whereby the croupier gathers in money with a flexible sculling oar, then rakes it home. If I could have borrowed his oar I would have stayed." .......... Mark Twain
Hunterhill
Hunterhill
Joined: Aug 1, 2011
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March 22nd, 2017 at 5:05:23 AM permalink
Quote: odiousgambit

The remarkable thing to me is that the internet, and now the proliferation of smart phones, doesn't seem to have changed that all that much. From what I can tell people want to listen to someone who's played a lot, figuring they've learned from experience.


The thing I really hate is when dealers give the wrong advice to the players.
Whether well intentioned or not.Many of them say "the book says" and then proceed to give the wrong advice.
The mountain is tall but the grass grows on top of the mountain.
Romes
Romes
Joined: Jul 22, 2014
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March 22nd, 2017 at 7:00:55 AM permalink
Quote: Hunterhill

The thing I really hate is when dealers give the wrong advice to the players.
Whether well intentioned or not.Many of them say "the book says" and then proceed to give the wrong advice.

Yeah, that's painful to hear/watch because you know not only is that wrong, but that player is going to take that advice as their basic strategy for the rest of their playing days...

Sometimes though you just can't help players... They lose once with AK then check it down with AK every other time they get it because "hey it's not that good of a hand if it lost the last time!" Meanwhile I'm being dealt 6-2 off every hand.
Playing it correctly means you've already won.
Wulfgar1224
Wulfgar1224
Joined: May 19, 2014
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March 24th, 2017 at 5:18:36 PM permalink
Quote: Romes

Yeah, that's painful to hear/watch because you know not only is that wrong, but that player is going to take that advice as their basic strategy for the rest of their playing days...

Sometimes though you just can't help players... They lose once with AK then check it down with AK every other time they get it because "hey it's not that good of a hand if it lost the last time!" Meanwhile I'm being dealt 6-2 off every hand.



From what I observed last week in Las Vegas, the dealers seemed reluctant to give playing advice on the actual hand. I did see them push for people to play the trips bet, but I think the casino pushes them to encourage the players to make those bets in all of the carnival games. I feel like dealers are afraid that they'll be blamed if their advice doesn't work out on the actual playing of the hand.
gordonm888
gordonm888
Joined: Feb 18, 2015
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April 30th, 2017 at 10:13:44 AM permalink
How do people (Babs and others) analyze Ultimate Texas Hold'em (UTH)?

I model games as a hobby (always looking for an edge.) I have successfully modeled Mississippi Stud, which has a sequence of decisions that is similar to UTH -but that's only a 5-card stud hand that is compared to a payout table. I have also modeled Pai Gow Poker, 8-card poker, 4-card poker, 3-Card Poker, Chase the Flush and many BJ variants. UTH is much more complicated - the total of 9 cards, the sharing of 5 cards, the sequence of decisions, the dealer opening/qualifying, etc. makes it quite complex.

I have studied the WOO page on UTH - I understand the Return table of 56 outcomes but I confess that I cannot imagine how the Wizard calculated the number of combinations for those 56 scenarios - and I'm a very smart guy who does understand combination math. I consider it to be a very impressive accomplishment and I would love to have a high-level verbal description of the approach he took.

To ask a simple question:
Is there a straightforward way (other than a Monte Carlo simulation) to analyze, for a starting hand of J9o, whether one should BET 4x or not? Can anyone quote me the approximate EV for J9o when betting 4X and when NOT betting 4x? How do people in the forum analyze this?
- If needed, we can take as a groundrule the Wizard's strategy for the post-flop (2X) bet and the river decision (BET 1X or fold).

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