Why are there no Major Pro Sports in Vegas?

Just like the title suggests. Why doesn't Vegas have either and NFL, NHL, MLB or NBA team? I don't think it is because of the lack of market size anymore. The Vegas area is just as big as Milwaukee, Minneapolis and other mid size markets now. Is it due to the stigma of gambling interests influencing the outcome? Is it a lack of a loyal local following as most people in Vegas are transplants? or is it something else?

Quote: Gabes22

Just like the title suggests. Why doesn't Vegas have either and NFL, NHL, MLB or NBA team? I don't think it is because of the lack of market size anymore. The Vegas area is just as big as Milwaukee, Minneapolis and other mid size markets now. Is it due to the stigma of gambling interests influencing the outcome? Is it a lack of a loyal local following as most people in Vegas are transplants? or is it something else?

The NFL will never have a team or even a Superbowl in NV because of gambling. The USFL had a team in NV IIRC, no idea how attendence is. For the other leagues I feel it is a combination of Vegas is "late" to being a big market in just the last few years and the transplant issue. The AZ Cardinals were until recently little more than a scout team for transplants and snowbirds to watch their team play against. We don't need more of that.

Vegas is late to the whole big market thing, but so was Charlotte, and they now have teams in the NBA and the NFL (NHL team is in Raleigh). But did that football game in the early 2000s between Wisconsin and UNLV which ended halfway through the 4th quarter due to a mysterious power outage play more of a role than is being led on?
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/college/news/2002/09/02/vegas_outage/

Quote: Gabes22

Is it a lack of a loyal local following as most people in Vegas are transplants?

This is the biggest one. It's the same reason the Florida professional teams can have a hard time garnering a following. College teams are different; people go to school there, so you can have a nationwide following.

Another big reason is the amount of entertainment options in Vegas. There are already other sporting options for locals, and "home games" could potentially have more fans for the visiting team. The time is coming for Vegas, but it's still years away. I don't think the NFL is likely to get a team, and certainly not a baseball team (unless it's an indoor arena). I think basketball has the biggest appeal.

could also be that the leagues do not want the headache of policing
the players to stay out of the casinos and whorehouses and tabloids.

Las Vegas is a market that punches below its weight for two major reasons.

1. Transplants- Las Vegas is a town of people not from Vegas, as suggested by Gabes. Look at Florida pro sports and Phoenix. Another town like this is Washington, which despite being the 7th largest market, the fans are only real excited about the Redskins, who are the only team that is embraced by the people actually from Washington (Caps have a rabid while smaller following like many NHL teams).

2. Tiltpoul names the other one, entertainment within vegas.

Those two plus the gambling stigma hurt Vegas

That said I expect a NBA team in Vegas within 10 years.

Quote: niczone

That said I expect a NBA team in Vegas within 10 years.

I have to disagree. After the 2007 All Star Game in Las Vegas (403 arrests, 4 shootings), I don't think the NBA Commisioner is in any hurry (like, never) to plant a franchise there. Besides, taking the home team off the board will create a lot of problems for the books, especially if they manage to get into the playoffs.

Vegas people are transients and have loyalty to the dollar, not to any particular team, are too smart to fund a stadium and don't want crowds of fans but crowds of gamblers instead.

Politicians and fools want big name sports teams and traffic jams from sporting events. Smart people just take the sucker's money and let him watch his sports on TV somewhere.

Thanks for all your answers. I do agree with many of them. One thing I do feel though, is that even in transplant towns like Phoenix winning seems to trump all. Once the Cardinals got a taste of playoff success the locals started filling up the stands. However, I see sports as a win-win for a town like Vegas. Vegas is already a vacation destination, and I could envision different hotel and casino groups offering 2-4 night stays catered around visiting Vegas when their hometown Chicago Bulls or Boston Celtics or Los Angeles Lakers come to Vegas to play. The casinos would get play, the restaurants would get diners, the shops would get buyers etc. Just look at how crowded Vegas is when NASCAR is in town in February. Now I am not comparing filling a 20,000 seat arena with a racetrack that houses over 100,000 people but over the course of the season and 41 home dates, I think this would increase traffic to Vegas. Vegas already attracts people with casinos, sports betting, top shelf dining, top entertainment, top flight golf and top flight shopping. Isn't adding some top flight athletics logical here? Vegas is a city that while hotel stays have gotten back to pre-recession levels, occupancy rates are still lower because of the added hotel rooms that have since been constructed.

Quote: Ayecarumba

I have to disagree. After the 2007 All Star Game in Las Vegas (403 arrests, 4 shootings), I don't think the NBA Commisioner is in any hurry (like, never) to plant a franchise there. Besides, taking the home team off the board will create a lot of problems for the books, especially if they manage to get into the playoffs.

4 shootings in one weekend. Mayor Rahm Emmanuel of Chicago would take that in a heartbeat. 40 shootings over Memorial Day weekend in Chicago, 10 and counting ending fatally.

Quote: Gabes22

4 shootings in one weekend. Mayor Rahm Emmanuel of Chicago would take that in a heartbeat. 40 shootings over Memorial Day weekend in Chicago, 10 and counting ending fatally.

True, but it's not like you can choose to not have Memorial Day in your city. You can choose to be NBA team-less, just like you can choose to not host a rap concert. These events attract a young urban element that often doesn't play nicely with others.

Quote: Gabes22

Vegas is already a vacation destination, and I could envision different hotel and casino groups offering 2-4 night stays catered around visiting Vegas when their hometown Chicago Bulls or Boston Celtics or Los Angeles Lakers come to Vegas to play. The casinos would get play, the restaurants would get diners, the shops would get buyers etc.

That's actually an argument AGAINST having a sports team in Vegas. Nearly every team plays better with a home court advantage, due largely to the crowd and fan support of the home team. What franchise owner in their right mind would want to have a professional team where the majority of fans come from the opposing team? I can't imagine a lot of Vegas locals pumping money into season tickets, concessions (especially this area) and alcohol when they'd be able to get it much cheaper at a casino a few miles away. A Vegas team would be tough.

I know the Vegas incidents scare the NBA, but the NBA is also about show and flair. No other city provides that in quite the same way. And as far as oddmakers are concerned, that may not be as big of a concern if NJ goes ahead and allows sports betting.

The major sports leagues are going to have to take sports gambling in cities with teams very soon. New Jersey is going to go ahead with sports gambling even though federal law prohibits them from doing so. The track at The Meadowlands will have a sports book with this plan, which is home to next year's Super Bowl. This may be the turning point for major sports. Would they cancel having the Super Bowl at The Meadowlands because there is a sports book there? I guess it depends on the contract.

Also, the NFL plays two games a year in cities with sports gambling (London and Toronto). The NBA and Ontario agreed not to allow any NBA betting there due to a team being there. When the Grizzlies were in BC, there was a similar agreement. When Oregon had sports betting Trailblazer games were not included. What about the Nets now if NJ goes ahead with their plans? Will the NBA force the Nets to leave the state if NJ allows betting on their games (as of now only NJ college teams are not eligible for betting).

I do not think the NHL has the hard line the other leagues, AFAIK there are no restrictions in Canada on betting NHL.

The feds could stop it before it ever starts, and it could have to go through the courts through either the feds or sports leagues, but an answer to this is coming.

The sports leagues already defeated Delaware three years ago, and Delaware is exempted from the Bradley Act. Delaware wanted to offer single game betting on all games but the courts ruled they could only do NFL parlay cards, the same wagering they once offered for just a single season pre Bradley Act that got them exempted. Delaware does not even have a team and the leagues took legal action, imagine the fight coming in NJ.

note: the nets have played their last game in jersey.
they are now the brooklyn nets.

Quote: WongBo

note: the nets have played their last game in jersey.
they are now the brooklyn nets.

That's my Hometown & my TEAM!!!

Fingers crossed we win the NBA Draft Lottery Tonight!

I don't follow NBA. I did not know they moved. Still, NBA was a part of the Delaware suit even though there is no team there either so I suspect they would want to tag along here too.

Very true, but still the two New York NFL teams still play in Jersey, the NHL's Devils play in Jersey as well.

Also what a huge home field advantage could become of it. Think about it. A visiting team in town for a couple of playoff games. Meanwhile you have a team full of red-blooded twenty-somethings in an adult playground with no clocks in sight.

Wow. I hadn't thought of the implications of the Jets & Giants, or the Superbowl.

For the record, the closest entry to MetLife Stadium is less than 50 yards from the entrance to Meadowlands Racetrack, where the sports book will be located.

It would be a no brainer for tailgaters to stop at the book prior to going to the stadium.

Hell, are there any bets available after the game begins? They are so close that it would be easy to place a bet during halftime and not miss the game.

Good thing the new stadium is about 200 yards closer to the track!

Because it's too damn hot for outdoor sports.

Might have to wait on NBA/NHL. Assuming the arena plan gets through all the bureaucratic BS (word on the street is that it's already a done deal) - Seattle is a much larger market and will probably get preference.

You never know though...

The Toronto Blue Jays' farm team is the Las Vegas 51s.

Quote: DJTeddyBear

Wow. I hadn't thought of the implications of the Jets & Giants, or the Superbowl.

For the record, the closest entry to MetLife Stadium is less than 50 yards from the entrance to Meadowlands Racetrack, where the sports book will be located.

It would be a no brainer for tailgaters to stop at the book prior to going to the stadium.

Hell, are there any bets available after the game begins? They are so close that it would be easy to place a bet during halftime and not miss the game.

Good thing the new stadium is about 200 yards closer to the track!

Nevada has mobile sports betting through Leroy's and Cantor. That technology exists, and I would think it would eventually find its way to NJ. You would not have to leave your seat to make a halftime wager.

I believe this will be quite a battle with the feds. The sports leagues will be applying all kinds of pressure on the govt to make this go away. If this does start in the fall I don't think it will be on a grand scale. At least not in the beginning. I don't see any type of mobile betting. I think that would be putting the cart before the horse.

Quote: Gabes22

Thanks for all your answers. I do agree with many of them. One thing I do feel though, is that even in transplant towns like Phoenix winning seems to trump all.

I don't think there is one overarching reason. Primarily they were late to the buffet. The city was much smaller only 15-20 years ago, and the stakes of bringing in professional sports have grown exponentially in that time. The municipal organization of the county is more fractured than many places (like Phoenix). The city itself is not very rich, and all the expensive resorts are in areas like Paradise.

The resort companies object stridently to using public funds to build an arena that would compete with the arenas they built with private funds. Effectively football and baseball are too expensive, and they care a lot about the gambling. The hope was that hockey or basketball would be more likely.

Major League Soccer may be a possibility, but many people don't care.


Oscar Goodman had the idea that Vegas would be a good neutral place for Monday night football. The logic was that there would be plenty of hotel rooms on Monday night, and cheap airfare for any visitors in the country. NFL didn't care much for the idea.

Quote: zippyboy

Because it's too damn hot for outdoor sports.

Phoenix has an NBA team and an NFL team and an MLB team and an NHL team.

My guess at the first professional sports team in Las Vegas would be MLS. But it has yet to achieve popular ranking as a "Major Sports" league.

I would like to see a soccer-specific stadium built just so we could get WC qualifiers and, God willing, host World Cup group matches next time around. But it won't happen without an MLS team...

PPL Park in Philadelphia: