The double-doink controversy
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Let me go back and explain the situation, as I understand it. With 5 seconds left in the game Chicago was down by one point, 15 to 16. They had the ball at the 43-yard line and attempt a field goal. The field goal fails -- it hits the left bar, bounces off and hits the bottom bar, and then bounces outside the upright bars, resulting in a missed field goal and Philly winning (yeah!).
It was a pretty easy field goal, I think about 90% make it from that distance, and it doesn't go in. That's sports. Any fan of a Chicago team in any sport should be able to take losing, they should be used to it. I was so hoping the Dodgers would remind Cubs fans of their place, but, alas, not everything goes my way.
Anyway, now careful examination of the replay shows that maybe a Phily player tipped the ball. My response to that is -- who cares?! They are allowed to try to block it. What difference does it make what the reason for the missed field goal is?
Can anyone explain to me why this made the national news on ABC tonight?
Further reading -- Was the Bears double-doink field goal actually tipped? An investigation.
Quote: WizardI keep hearing about this Double-Doink controversy in the Bears-Eagles game. What I don't get is why there is a controversy.
Let me go back and explain the situation, as I understand it. With 5 seconds left in the game Chicago was down by one point, 15 to 16. They had the ball at the 43-yard line and attempt a field goal. The field goal fails -- it hits the left bar, bounces off and hits the bottom bar, and then bounces outside the upright bars, resulting in a missed field goal and Philly winning (yeah!).
It was a pretty easy field goal, I think about 90% make it from that distance, and it doesn't go in. That's sports. Any fan of a Chicago team in any sport should be able to take losing, they should be used to it. I was so hoping the Dodgers would remind Cubs fans of their place, but, alas, not everything goes my way.
Anyway, now careful examination of the replay shows that maybe a Phily player tipped the ball. My response to that is -- who cares?! They are allowed to try to block it. What difference does it make what the reason for the missed field goal is?
Can anyone explain to me why this made the national news on ABC tonight?
Further reading -- Was the Bears double-doink field goal actually tipped? An investigation.
A couple things.
This same kicker hit the uprights 4 TIMES in one game Chicago had earlier this year. Missed some others here and there. There's been chatter for weeks, what if it comes down to this guy? And then it did. He's the most hated guy in Chicago today, i promise. I would expect death threats.
EXCEPT.
If the ball got tipped enough to throw it left, that's on the Offensive Line, not the Kicker. They let the outside right defender go around the OL and dive in front of the kicker with a hand up.
AND
The guy kicked it perfectly, but the refs claimed the Eagles had called a time-out in time to negate the kick. I'm not so sure about that, actually. I think the ball was hiked before the TO and it was a late whistle. So the double-doink was actually the second time he kicked it.
I do think mostly it's just all the chatter about the 4 doinks in one game, and everybody holding their breath to see if, after all the commentary about it, the guy could kick the game winner. Irony and destiny mixed together.
Update: The NFL just changed the Stat from a missed FG to a blocked kick.
More background:
Quote: Chicago Tribune
Parkey, who hit an upright an outrageous six times out of 11 total missed kicks this season, honorably was waiting for the media at his locker after the loss Sunday. But the Bears didn’t subject him to answering more questions Monday. He was not one of seven players made available during media access, so he couldn’t lend his thoughts on the most significant postgame development surrounding the kick.
The NFL officially changed Parkey’s missed field goal to a blocked kick by Eagles defensive lineman Treyvon Hester, who said Sunday night that he tipped the football on the kick. Video footage appears to back up that claim, though it’s unknown how much of an effect his hand made.
Just to take my inner Dead pedantic pet (Axel's head is now exploding) out for a little walk: If it was at the 43 yard line, it was an attempt at [EDIT: more than] a 53 yard field goal. Not "pretty easy." If it was a 43 yard field goal attempt, it was from [EDIT: inside the] 33 yard line.*Quote: Wizard...They had the ball at the 43-yard line and attempt a field goal... ...<SNIP>... ...-- who cares?!....
*Shame on you, if even Dead guys know that.
Quote: WizardI keep hearing about this Double-Doink controversy in the Bears-Eagles game. What I don't get is why there is a controversy.
Let me go back and explain the situation, as I understand it. With 5 seconds left in the game Chicago was down by one point, 15 to 16. They had the ball at the 43-yard line and attempt a field goal. The field goal fails -- it hits the left bar, bounces off and hits the bottom bar, and then bounces outside the upright bars, resulting in a missed field goal and Philly winning (yeah!).
It was a pretty easy field goal, I think about 90% make it from that distance, and it doesn't go in. That's sports. Any fan of a Chicago team in any sport should be able to take losing, they should be used to it. I was so hoping the Dodgers would remind Cubs fans of their place, but, alas, not everything goes my way.
Anyway, now careful examination of the replay shows that maybe a Phily player tipped the ball. My response to that is -- who cares?! They are allowed to try to block it. What difference does it make what the reason for the missed field goal is?
Can anyone explain to me why this made the national news on ABC tonight?
Further reading -- Was the Bears double-doink field goal actually tipped? An investigation.
Because it changes the narrative from a struggling kicker cost his team the game to a great defense won its team the game.
The actual result doesn't change but it actually makes fans of both teams feel better.
Eagles fans want to know that their team won the game by making a great play and not getting unlucky.
Similarly, Bears fans can feel better that their team didn't blow the game but lost on a good play by the opponent.
By the way, the kick was from 43 yards and kickers are 81 percent from that yardage this year.
Quote: DrawingDeadI don't know, and don't care. But.
Just to take my inner Dead pedantic pet (Axel's head is now exploding) out for a little walk: If it was at the 43 yard line, it was an attempt at a 53 yard field goal. Not "pretty easy." If it was a 43 yard field goal attempt, it was from the 33 yard line.*Quote: Wizard...They had the ball at the 43-yard line and attempt a field goal... ...<SNIP>... ...-- who cares?!....
*Shame on you, if even Dead guys know that.
If they have the ball at the 43 yard line it’s more like a 60 yard FG, because they kick from about 7 yards behind the line of scrimmage.
Yes, it is, that's how far they have to kick it, but it is scored as a field goal or FG attempt with a length measured to the back of the end zone from the yard line at which the play began, regardless of how deep the kicker and holder were. Same as punts, or passes, the length of which is counted from where the ball was first snapped to start the play, not from the spot where it was thrown or kicked, and not counting any added distance it travelled across the width of the field either.Quote: unJonQuote: DrawingDeadI don't know, and don't care. But.
Just to take my inner Dead pedantic pet (Axel's head is now exploding) out for a little walk: If it was at the 43 yard line, it was an attempt at a 53 yard field goal. Not "pretty easy." If it was a 43 yard field goal attempt, it was from the 33 yard line.*Quote: Wizard...They had the ball at the 43-yard line and attempt a field goal... ...<SNIP>... ...-- who cares?!....
*Shame on you, if even Dead guys know that.
If they have the ball at the 43 yard line it’s more like a 60 yard FG, because they kick from about 7 yards behind the line of scrimmage.
EDIT: I was wrong about scoring field goal distance; it is not measured as punts & passes are.
Quote: DrawingDeadYes, it is, that's how far they have to kick it, but it is scored as a field goal or FG attempt with a length measured to the goal posts in the back of the end zone from the yard line at which the play began, regardless of how deep the kicker and holder were. Same as punts, or passes, the length of which is counted from where the ball was first snapped to start the play, not from the spot where it was thrown or kicked, and not counting any added distance it travelled across the width of the field either.Quote: unJonQuote: DrawingDeadI don't know, and don't care. But.
Just to take my inner Dead pedantic pet (Axel's head is now exploding) out for a little walk: If it was at the 43 yard line, it was an attempt at a 53 yard field goal. Not "pretty easy." If it was a 43 yard field goal attempt, it was from the 33 yard line.*Quote: Wizard...They had the ball at the 43-yard line and attempt a field goal... ...<SNIP>... ...-- who cares?!....
*Shame on you, if even Dead guys know that.
If they have the ball at the 43 yard line it’s more like a 60 yard FG, because they kick from about 7 yards behind the line of scrimmage.
Incorrect. It’s exactly not like punts or passes. FGs are scored from where the ball is kicked.
It was 4th down at the Eagles 25 yard line. That is how it became a 43 yard try.Quote: beachbumbabsThis same kicker hit the uprights 4 TIMES in one game Chicago had earlier this year. Missed some others here and there. There's been chatter for weeks, what if it comes down to this guy? And then it did. He's the most hated guy in Chicago today, i promise. I would expect death threats.
Da Bears
FG kicker was a 75%er (23 of 30 or closer to 76.7%er)
during the season
that is 3 out of 4 made (also missed 3 extra point tries)
He had made 3 out of 3 during the game, most forgot that,
so Da Bears could have won because he put them in the position to win
making all his field goals up to that point.
and did make the 4th one to an obvious to me late timeout call on the Eagles.
(refs should have reviewed that one)
from there he was toast
I was a 75%er in high school football (well, actually about 72.5%)
and I was laughed at because of it (for only 2 years)
(not that I was only 5'8)
and I was terrible
75%er in the pros has to be worse
no matter the distances tried (most are less than 50 yards)
You're right, and I edited my last post to note my mistake. So, if it was a 43 yard field goal attempt they were even closer than the 33 yard line, like about the 26 or so. Or if they were actually at the 43 then it was something like a 60-ish attempt like you said. And even a Dead guy is pretty sure that would be hard, since as a teenage kid I saw Tom Dempsey in the flesh with New Orleans back in ancient times in the rickety crumbling old Tulane Stadium, where he did this with the only foot he had, setting some kind of record at the time:Quote: unJonIncorrect. It’s exactly not like punts or passes. FGs are scored from where the ball is kicked.
I don't remember for sure, but I think that might've been the only game the Saints won that year. Or at least close to it, if somehow they accidentally won two or something. Usually the streetcar ride to & from was more exciting than the games. When you've been given season tickets to the only thing in town, you tend to remember the few things they ever manage to do right.
Not that I've begun to care. Was this a game that mattered for something? Nevermind, I'll assume it probably kinda sorta was, and continue to not care and go back to counting down the days 'till Spring Training.
My favorite part is the Bear mascot's reaction.
I think it’s pretty standard day after tough loss mood in the city.
I hate the Bears, so I couldn’t have scripted a better ending to the game. I just wish I wasn’t in no gamble January, or I would have made some nice money on this.
Quote: beachbumbabs
AND
The guy kicked it perfectly, but the refs claimed the Eagles had called a time-out in time to negate the kick. I'm not so sure about that, actually. I think the ball was hiked before the TO and it was a late whistle. So the double-doink was actually the second time he kicked it.
I do think mostly it's just all the chatter about the 4 doinks in one game, and everybody holding their breath to see if, after all the commentary about it, the guy could kick the game winner. Irony and destiny mixed together.
Doug Pederson called the timeout before the snap. It’s on the refs if they were late to the whistle.
People always saying icing the kicker doesn’t work, until it works beautifully.
Missed it by that much. I was sort of expecting a Bears- Pats Big Game. I am oh so disappointed.
It could be Rams/Chargers... that would be something. There aren't even enough fans of both teams combined in the L.A. area to fill the 27,000 seat Stub Hub Center. Who's going to travel to Atlanta?Quote: billryanImagine if it had been deflected at the line, bounced off the upright, then hit the crossbar and bounced into the endzone. It would have been the birth of a legend.
Missed it by that much. I was sort of expecting a Bears- Pats Big Game. I am oh so disappointed.
Quote: AyecarumbaThey ought to give more points for hitting the upright. How many kickers could do it from 40 yards out, even if they tried? Doesn't Australian Rules Football, or some other similar field sport have two sets of uprights, with more points awarded for propelling the ball through the narrower gap?
Yes, but each set of posts is equal size. A ball kicked without deflection between the inner posts that are 6.4 meters (21 feet) apart by an offensive player is worth 6 points. A ball kicked though either set of outer posts ("behind posts") that are each 6.4 meters apart from the inner posts is worth 1 point each (aka a "behind"). If the ball crosses either set of posts in any other manner than the offense kicking it directly into the goal is worth only 1 point. So in stressful situations, the defense will just run the ball into their own goal and give up 1 point.
Also, if the ball hits the goalpost, it's automatically 1 point. If it hits the behind post, it's out of bounds. So unlike the NFL, hitting a post in Aussie Rules is automatically considered a "miss".
I love Aussie rules, fwiw. Very free flowing game with significant contact.
Quote: odiousgambitMy favorite part is the Bear mascot's reaction.
#MeToo!
Quote: billryanImagine if it had been deflected at the line, bounced off the upright, then hit the crossbar and bounced into the endzone. It would have been the birth of a legend.
Isn't that exactly what happened?
Quote: JohnzimboIsn't that exactly what happened?
Sort of. If it had been deflected slightly differently off the upright, the 2nd doink could have bounced it to the far side of the horizontal bar, and it would have counted for 3. The problem was it bounced to land in front of the horizontal, not over it.
Quote: billryanImagine if it had been deflected at the line, bounced off the upright, then hit the crossbar and bounced into the endzone. .
That’s exactly what did happen
https://www.google.com/search?q=tom+dempsey+kicking+shoe&rlz=1C1TSNO_enUS506US506&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwizl5aNluHfAhVqmuAKHW7oDxcQsAR6BAgCEAE
was not a problem for the Eagles and their fans.Quote: beachbumbabsThe problem was it bounced to land in front of the horizontal, not over it.
(Bears were a 6.5 favorite and still would not have covered)
this video I think has the best views of the end of the game
the called off try was still between the left post and center
the tipped try (that missed) still started to the left post
this kicker is known for this (says he adjusts for the wind IIRC)
when I was a struggling FG kicker in high school (right footed and no ice in veins)
wide right was because I tried to kick the ball real hard and long
instead of just kicking the ball with my complete motion that was from practice.
wide left was from trying to aim the kick
I never compensated for the wind. just down the center.
easy for those to see and say this stuff
for Da Bears
"wait 'til next year"
Quote: JohnzimboIsn't that exactly what happened?
Yes. I think he meant "bounced over the crossbar".
Quote: FatGeezusTom Dempsey was born without toes on his right foot. He wore a special shoe with an iron plate in front.
https://www.google.com/search?q=tom+dempsey+kicking+shoe&rlz=1C1TSNO_enUS506US506&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwizl5aNluHfAhVqmuAKHW7oDxcQsAR6BAgCEAE
I knew Dempsey didn't have a full foot, but I didn't know he had an iron plate at the end of his shoe. I wonder if that was enough to give him a distance advantage over other kickers in his era.
Quote: tringlomaneYes. I think he meant "bounced over the crossbar".
I knew Dempsey didn't have a full foot, but I didn't know he had an iron plate at the end of his shoe. I wonder if that was enough to give him a distance advantage over other kickers in his era.
Dempsey wasn't known for other long field goals. In fact, he didn't even have as much as a 50 yarder the last several years of his career. During his time in the NFL, most kickers switched to the soccer style that is now commonplace. He was one of the last straight on kickers. While I don't think it really helped him, the NFL did ban that type of shoe after he retired.
There’s a reason Dempsy’s record stood for so many seasons.
Quote: billryanIt's not the only reason. Back then, a missed field goal meant the other team took over on its twenty yard line. Soon after, it was moved to the original line of scrimmage. Attempting long kicks has much more severe consequences now.
And it's been the spot of the kick since 1994.
