GlenG
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May 15th, 2018 at 3:21:27 PM permalink
What's going to happen with FanDuel and DraftKings? Nevada banned them both because they wont self identify as gambling(refusing to get a gaming licence). I wonder if the states that implement sports betting will do the same.

Daily Fantasy Sports- Last Week Tonight
aceofspades
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ZenKinG
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May 15th, 2018 at 4:34:43 PM permalink
Quote: GlenG

What's going to happen with FanDuel and DraftKings? Nevada banned them both because they wont self identify as gambling(refusing to get a gaming licence). I wonder if the states that implement sports betting will do the same.

Daily Fantasy Sports- Last Week Tonight



I already talked about this. Draftkings and Fanduel are similar to the business venture i was trying to run, of which, they fall under 'skill based gaming'. There are already state laws in the majority of states(38) that do differentiate between games of chance(gambling) AND skill based gaming. I have a 50 state survey analyzing all of the states gambling codes as well as me personally going through each state's gambling statutes to verify the document to see if they did differentiate and they did. If you want I can even tell you which 38 states do differentiate between the two.

The 'problem' like i said is the federal statute on the books called the 2006 Unlawful Internet Gambling Act, which in all reality shouldnt matter just like PASPA was found unconstitutional yesterday by the Supreme Court, this 2006 Act will end up having the same fate. It's a violation of the 10th amendment to tell the states what they can and cannot do if its not specifically written in the constitution already. The fed might try to claim it falls under the Commerce or General Welfare Clause, but it doesnt. Id say within the next 5 years, this will be cleared up as well by the courts.

There are better places anyway around the world for an internet gambling or skill gaming business anyway with many benefits that USA doesnt have so it doesnt matter. DraftKings found that out as well going to Malta. We also found out about Malta's very lenient gaming laws and also them understanding the difference between skill gaming and games of chance gambling. For DraftKings, Malta allowed them to bypass the gambling license but still required them to get another license which is much cheaper because of the skill element. Malta even offers you the ability to have no license if it's a 'pure' skill game like the business I was attempting to start up and those games would be things such as sports video games(eSports), etc.
Any private business open to the PUBLIC (ie. droned out casinos) cannot have a criminal trespass enforced against an individual without GOOD CAUSE (Disruptive or Disorderly conduct). You will never go to prison for being thrown out of a casino for legal advantage play and then returning because it's simply unconstitutional 'as applied' to the individual. 'As applied' constitutional issues must FIRST be raised in DISTRICT COURT (trial court) to have it thrown out. You CANNOT raise it on APPEAL This is the best kept secret in the world of casinos not just in Vegas but everywhere in the country. Thank me later.
TomG
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May 15th, 2018 at 4:35:16 PM permalink
Quote: GlenG

What's going to happen with FanDuel and DraftKings? Nevada banned them both because they wont self identify as gambling(refusing to get a gaming licence). I wonder if the states that implement sports betting will do the same.



There seems to be little doubt fantasy sports will be completely legal instead of grey area. And it is amazing that they'll still maintain popularity. When betting on an outcome of a game, all the available information becomes reflected in the price of the bet you make. With FanDuel and DraftKings, much of the most important information is kept hidden and opens the door to rampant corruption.

With the daily fantasy sports it isn't just about the probabilities of what happens on the field, it's also about how the other customers played. And if someone is able to get that information, they have a huge advantage. If I know a significant proportion of customers pick Antonio Brown and Todd Gurley, then I stay away from those players and if they underperform I have a huge advantage over almost everyone. Same thing if I know very few people picked Matt Ryan and Ezekiel Elliot. Almost none of us will have that information. But someone will.

If someone likes fantasy sports, they would be much better off just betting Kevin Durant over 29 points, instead of picking him for their fantasy team. Of course, by definition, almost all gambling is irrational, so it's certain these sorts of wagering options will become more popular than ever now that they can claim the full blessing of the Supreme Court.
Wizard
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May 15th, 2018 at 5:02:50 PM permalink
Quote: ahiromu

One thing i would really like to see is a nationwide parimutuel pool for the super bowl. Similar to how the Kentucky Derby does it. I have a feeling the HE would be lower than the current system for most, if not all, bettors.



I've always wondered why they don't do it this way to begin with, even as a choice to the players. The sports books could quit whining about unbalanced action and taking sharp money.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
michael99000
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May 15th, 2018 at 5:06:01 PM permalink
Quote: TomG

There seems to be little doubt fantasy sports will be completely legal instead of grey area. And it is amazing that they'll still maintain popularity. When betting on an outcome of a game, all the available information becomes reflected in the price of the bet you make. With FanDuel and DraftKings, much of the most important information is kept hidden and opens the door to rampant corruption.

With the daily fantasy sports it isn't just about the probabilities of what happens on the field, it's also about how the other customers played. And if someone is able to get that information, they have a huge advantage. If I know a significant proportion of customers pick Antonio Brown and Todd Gurley, then I stay away from those players and if they underperform I have a huge advantage over almost everyone. Same thing if I know very few people picked Matt Ryan and Ezekiel Elliot. Almost none of us will have that information. But someone will.

If someone likes fantasy sports, they would be much better off just betting Kevin Durant over 29 points, instead of picking him for their fantasy team. Of course, by definition, almost all gambling is irrational, so it's certain these sorts of wagering options will become more popular than ever now that they can claim the full blessing of the Supreme Court.



Didn’t an employee at DraftKings get caught entering a league on that site ? And he was an employee who had knowledge of what players were being used on how many teams
AZDuffman
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May 15th, 2018 at 6:38:31 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

I've always wondered why they don't do it this way to begin with, even as a choice to the players. The sports books could quit whining about unbalanced action and taking sharp money.



IMHO it would have to be just one choice. Most sharps want to know what they are booking and what the payout will be, they will not accept it being like a horse track. OTOH, the casual bettor may be happy just betting on the favorite and if the payout is minimal they will just have less to drop at the 6:5 table.

I'd rather see betcha.com resurrected and legalized. Make your own deals and let reputation matter. But I have talked to the old owner, last time I asked he said no way. If not for family here I'd consider moving offshore and trying to do it.
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JoelDeze
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May 16th, 2018 at 3:35:32 AM permalink
What happens in Vegas... will be happening elsewhere too. This is the end of illegal prohibition across the nation. It is a good thing. There were 255,500,000,000 reasons to do it.
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SM777
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May 16th, 2018 at 5:31:35 AM permalink
I received an email already from Draftkings saying they will convert over to a sportsbook while still offering DFS.

Not sure if that was the play all along, but it certainly will help them survive.
JoelDeze
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May 16th, 2018 at 10:24:02 AM permalink
Quote: SM777

I received an email already from Draftkings saying they will convert over to a sportsbook while still offering DFS.

Not sure if that was the play all along, but it certainly will help them survive.



I received an email from FanDuel saying they would be looking for new innovative ways to add contests now that the Supreme Court made their decision.
“It’s a dog eat dog world out there and I’m wearing milkbone underwear .” – Norm Peterson
SM777
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May 16th, 2018 at 12:19:22 PM permalink
Quote: JoelDeze

I received an email from FanDuel saying they would be looking for new innovative ways to add contests now that the Supreme Court made their decision.



Fanduel is about to be acquired by Paddy Power, so combined, they will be a force. Will allow Paddy Power seamless entry in the USA sports betting market.
ahiromu
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May 16th, 2018 at 12:58:36 PM permalink
Quote: SM777

Fanduel is about to be acquired by Paddy Power, so combined, they will be a force. Will allow Paddy Power seamless entry in the USA sports betting market.



Anyone who thinks the USA sports betting market is going to be seamless is sadly misguided. It's going to be an overly convoluted mess of a legal situation from start to finish. A mish mash of different regulations by state, where promotions are withheld from some states because of taxes and wager platforms need to be approved by individual states.

I hate to harp on you for one word, but I really think this is going to be a stupid rat race before it can get settled.
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SM777
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May 16th, 2018 at 1:55:07 PM permalink
Quote: ahiromu

Anyone who thinks the USA sports betting market is going to be seamless is sadly misguided. It's going to be an overly convoluted mess of a legal situation from start to finish. A mish mash of different regulations by state, where promotions are withheld from some states because of taxes and wager platforms need to be approved by individual states.

I hate to harp on you for one word, but I really think this is going to be a stupid rat race before it can get settled.



I think you misunderstood the post, but also certainly exaggerated the difficulties.

Once states pass their own regulations, established companies such as William Hill, Caesar's, MGM, Scientific Games, and possibly Paddy Power will use everything that is already in place. These places know how to run sports betting operations, and specifically William Hill, Caesar's, and MGM will be setting up satellite wagering sites in other states, with the hub still being in Nevada, exactly as it is now.

Very few places will attempt to pour money into sports betting, which has notoriously low profit margins, and risk messing it up. They'll rent out a small portion of their casino to William Hill, set up a satellite operation, and that will be that.
ECoaster
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May 16th, 2018 at 2:08:32 PM permalink
Quote: aceofspades

Monmouth will begin taking sports wagers Memorial Day

https://www.barstoolsports.com/barstoolu/monmouth-park-in-new-jersey-will-begin-taking-legal-sports-bets-on-memorial-day/?_branch_match_id=516402544782740345



Maybe not...

"The bill that state Senate President introduced this week to regulate sports betting at the state's casinos and racetracks comes with this caveat: Anyone who opens a sports betting operation before the state puts regulations in place will be barred from accepting future bets on games. That means Monmouth Park, the Oceanport racetrack that had announced plans to take bets by Memorial Day, will have to wait."

http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/2018/05/not_so_fast_on_nj_sports_betting_starting_memorial.html
ahiromu
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May 16th, 2018 at 4:34:06 PM permalink
Quote: SM777

I think you misunderstood the post, but also certainly exaggerated the difficulties.

Once states pass their own regulations, established companies such as William Hill, Caesar's, MGM, Scientific Games, and possibly Paddy Power will use everything that is already in place. These places know how to run sports betting operations, and specifically William Hill, Caesar's, and MGM will be setting up satellite wagering sites in other states, with the hub still being in Nevada, exactly as it is now.

Very few places will attempt to pour money into sports betting, which has notoriously low profit margins, and risk messing it up. They'll rent out a small portion of their casino to William Hill, set up a satellite operation, and that will be that.



Unintentionally carried my mindset over from work, nevermind.

I know from the horse racing side, only the top dogs are allowed to take online wagers in my state (VA). One of the lesser sites explicitly states that the reason is that a bunch of states (VA included) haven't licensed the wagering platform. Hell, there's an entirely separate TVG site for NJ. I truly think the whole thing will be a mess for the first decade.

Agreed when it comes to casinos not opening up independent books, I mean even the Venetian rents out their book these days.
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Nathan
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May 17th, 2018 at 12:25:36 AM permalink
I always thought that sports betting was actually not that big of a deal. For example, there were lots of these kind of scenarios going on in sports betting such as,"Hey, Tom! It's Superbowl 52! The Buffalo Bills are going against The New England Patriots! The Bills new kicker Allen Worshack and Quarterback Larry Peters are extremely good! I have a good gut feeling that the Bills win this year!l bet $500 that the Buffalo Bills win Superbowl 52!"

"Hey, Patrick, this is The Buffalo Bills FIFTH time in the Superbowl and they lost all four previous games! The New England Patriots have won 5 Superbowls. Tom Brady is a phenomenal Quarterback, so he'll win SB 52 as well. You know what, I'll bet you $1,000 the Patriots win!" They agree and The Buffalo Bills win! Tom begrudgingly gives Patrick his $1,000. This type of sports betting scenario happens often and no or very little arrests are made.
In both The Hunger Games and in gambling, may the odds be ever in your favor. :D "Man Babes" #AxelFabulous "Olive oil is processed but it only has one ingredient, olive oil."-Even Bob, March 27/28th. :D The 2 year war is over! Woo-hoo! :D I sometimes speak in metaphors. ;) Remember this. ;) Crack the code. :D 8.9.13.25.14.1.13.5.9.19.14.1.20.8.1.14! :D "For about the 4096th time, let me offer a radical idea to those of you who don't like Nathan -- block her and don't visit Nathan's Corner. What is so complicated about it?" Wizard, August 21st. :D
ECoaster
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Jmarch79
June 7th, 2018 at 4:02:27 PM permalink
Well, NJ's sport betting bill has passed the legislature... waiting on the Gov.

http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/2018/06/state_lawmakers_ok_sports_betting_in_nj.html

Includes in person and online betting, NJ tax rates have been set, will be regulated by the NJ DGE, and no 'integrity fee' to the leagues....
AZDuffman
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June 7th, 2018 at 4:08:52 PM permalink
Quote: ECoaster

Well, NJ's sport betting bill has passed the legislature... waiting on the Gov.

http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/2018/06/state_lawmakers_ok_sports_betting_in_nj.html

Includes in person and online betting, NJ tax rates have been set, will be regulated by the NJ DGE, and no 'integrity fee' to the leagues....



Awesome on the leagues not getting a cut Now lets hope PA follows.

One thing I never get. Casinos say sports betting is low margin. Yet we hear that it was one of the best moneymakers for the mafia. Assuming mob bookies are not merging bookmaking and shylock profits, what is missing?
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onenickelmiracle
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June 7th, 2018 at 11:11:57 PM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

Awesome on the leagues not getting a cut Now lets hope PA follows.

One thing I never get. Casinos say sports betting is low margin. Yet we hear that it was one of the best moneymakers for the mafia. Assuming mob bookies are not merging bookmaking and shylock profits, what is missing?

Betting on credit, interest, extortion.
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SM777
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June 8th, 2018 at 3:42:11 AM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

Awesome on the leagues not getting a cut Now lets hope PA follows.

One thing I never get. Casinos say sports betting is low margin. Yet we hear that it was one of the best moneymakers for the mafia. Assuming mob bookies are not merging bookmaking and shylock profits, what is missing?



Overhead. Of the $322,000 reportedly bet in Delaware on day 1, the casino can hope to hold between 4-5% on average. On a great day/month/year, 5.5-6.5% is amazing.

Take that small amount from the cost to build, furnish the book, pay the employees, the extreme Directv bill, buy the betting terminals, etc.

As sports betting spreads, the novice casino operators in this space (all of them) will be surprised how little they actually make.

Leasing out the space in your casino to a company like William Hill for $200,000 a month is the smartest thing for them to do. Collect your check, let them run everything.
Jmarch79
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RisingDough
June 11th, 2018 at 3:07:30 PM permalink
Gov. Murphy has signed the bill. Sports betting to begin Thursday at Monmouth Park with the Governor placing the first bet.

Press of AC link here.

I'd assume Borgata won't be far behind Monmouth Park.
ECoaster
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June 22nd, 2018 at 8:38:29 AM permalink
The Meadowlands racetrack has a timetable for their sports betting operation, which is expected to begin in mid July. Since NY state has no immediate plans for sports betting, this might draw a lot of people from NYC and the surrounding areas. Will be interesting to see how things develop at that facility in terms of crowds and associated bars / restaurants on site.

https://www.nj.com/bergen/index.ssf/2018/06/meadowlands_racetrack_to_begin_offering_sports_bet.html
ECoaster
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July 13th, 2018 at 5:42:54 PM permalink
Sports book at the Meadowlands Racetrack opens tomorrow... operated by FanDuel.
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