Sports wagers and reporting, can the Wizard or others with first hand experience weigh in?
What will be reported as far as amounts, or generate suspicion that is (as always) unwanted?
I am aware that sportsbooks must issue CTRCs at 10k or above. This is around the amount I wanted to risk and depending on the current odds, it may be slightly more or slightly less. Would it be best to make 3 different wagers, split up at 3 different books if possible? Or would a book print 3 tickets at smaller amounts for you (or is that suspicious).
I'm just wondering if something like 3500 would even be noticed, or for that matter, cared about --- particularly if you made the wager at 3 different sportsbooks.
Thanks for your input and/or suggestions.
ps - Can anyone confirm that sports bets/tickets are redeemable up to 1 year after the bet is settled, similar to horse racing wagers? Thanks.
Quote: Lando
ps - Can anyone confirm that sports bets/tickets are redeemable up to 1 year after the bet is settled, similar to horse racing wagers? Thanks.
I don't know about a year but they are redeemable thru the mail.
Laid down a bet with William Hill at the 4 Queens Vegas downtown on a football game that night. Sports Book closed before the game was over and had a flight back to Tampa next morning. Mailed the winning bet to William Hill, they mailed me a check. Mailing instructions on the back of the bet.
Quote: LandoI'm thinking of making a large wager in Vegas on a long-term proposition. My question is this:
What will be reported as far as amounts, or generate suspicion that is (as always) unwanted?
I am aware that sportsbooks must issue CTRCs at 10k or above. This is around the amount I wanted to risk and depending on the current odds, it may be slightly more or slightly less. Would it be best to make 3 different wagers, split up at 3 different books if possible? Or would a book print 3 tickets at smaller amounts for you (or is that suspicious).
I'm just wondering if something like 3500 would even be noticed, or for that matter, cared about --- particularly if you made the wager at 3 different sportsbooks.
Thanks for your input and/or suggestions.
ps - Can anyone confirm that sports bets/tickets are redeemable up to 1 year after the bet is settled, similar to horse racing wagers? Thanks.
The CTRC is nothing but a small form and proof of ID. Why are you afraid of a CTRC? If you are not laundering money or funding terrorist activities, you have nothing to worry about.
ZCore13
Quote: Zcore13The CTRC is nothing but a small form and proof of ID. Why are you afraid of a CTRC? If you are not laundering money or funding terrorist activities, you have nothing to worry about.
ZCore13
Implying that one who wants to stay out of the purview of the IRS must be breaking the law is quite disingenuous. I don't cheat on my taxes, I just don't want to deal with the potential headache caused by the IRS. I'm under the impression a CTR (probably multiple in a year to really cause any issues) can be the basis for the IRS to start asking you questions, if this is incorrect, please correct me.
Quote: ahiromuImplying that one who wants to stay out of the purview of the IRS must be breaking the law is quite disingenuous. I don't cheat on my taxes, I just don't want to deal with the potential headache caused by the IRS. I'm under the impression a CTR (probably multiple in a year to really cause any issues) can be the basis for the IRS to start asking you questions, if this is incorrect, please correct me.
I'm not implying anything. I'm telling you what the CTR was created to try and stop. I don't know what your knowledge of the document is so I was giving you information. And no, a CTRC does not get the IRS asking you questions. Have a whole bunch of them with a reported income of $20,000 and I'm sure some bells will ring somewhere. Nothing happens at all if it's just a normal person gambling with their own money. Happens all the time at Casinos.
ZCore13
Quote: Zcore13I'm not implying anything. I'm telling you what the CTR was created to try and stop. I don't know what your knowledge of the document is so I was giving you information. And no, a CTRC does not get the IRS asking you questions. Have a whole bunch of them with a reported income of $20,000 and I'm sure some bells will ring somewhere. Nothing happens at all if it's just a normal person gambling with their own money. Happens all the time at Casinos.
ZCore13
If you value your anonymity (which many APs do), then generating a CTRC is sub-optimal since the casino will ask you for ID and SSN I believe. (I've never generated a CTR at a casino, but have at banks many times, where they already have my SSN on record.)
Quote: thecesspitI believe there is something like 'constructive' avoidance, so intentionally splitting a lump of money like this may lead to pain anyways if found out.
Yeah, that's called structuring, and it's a felony (see Rush Limbaugh). I don't know how they prove "intent" in the case of structuring, but I would tend to avoid it anyway.
Quote: LandoBy the way, my friends, why do Vegas sportsbooks commonly balk at wagers in the 4-digits. You'd think that these guys would have enough confidence to take anything under 10k without a question or line change. Seems very weak and I've seen in very frequently. Makes locals look like champs
Go to bigger casinos.
At MGM Grand they have a separate window for $10k+ wagers. If you are betting "only" $5k you have to stand in line with the common folk. I've placed several bets in the $1k-$5k range there; no one batted an eye.
I would add that if you win 10K or more you can ask to be paid in chips and then cash under 10K at the cage. However, if you return another day to cash the rest, they may give you a hard time. Casinos don't like it when you just sit on big chips, especially unknown players, and it sets off red flags that you are "structuring," which you are. My advice would be to rebet the extra chips another time on something else.
As was stated, redemption periods vary from 30 days to a year.
Quote: WizardGood advice given so far.
I would add that if you win 10K or more you can ask to be paid in chips and then cash under 10K at the cage. However, if you return another day to cash the rest, they may give you a hard time. Casinos don't like it when you just sit on big chips, especially unknown players, and it sets off red flags that you are "structuring," which you are. My advice would be to rebet the extra chips another time on something else.
As was stated, redemption periods vary from 30 days to a year.
Receiving a $10,000 payment in chips is still a payment on a wager. It doesn't matter that it's chips. It's a reportable payment on a wager. The form used does not say cash wins, it says payment(s) on wager(s) and that would be a check, cash, chips, quarters or any other form of payment.
ZCore13
Quote: Zcore13Receiving a $10,000 payment in chips is still a payment on a wager. It doesn't matter that it's chips. It's a reportable payment on a wager. The form used does not say cash wins, it says payment(s) on wager(s) and that would be a check, cash, chips, quarters or any other form of payment.
I think you are confusing a W2G with a CTR.
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceI think you are confusing a W2G with a CTR.
Yes he is. A CTR is definitely for currency only, hence the name Currency Transaction Report.
ZCore13
Just because less than 10k is exchanged at each casino doesn't mean YOU don't have to notify the IRS.
This is how I read the IRS rules, please correct if necessary.
Quote: 1arrowheaddrMy understanding is that if you made total cash transactions in a 24 hour period that exceeded 10k in one direction a CTR should be filed by the individual and sent to the IRS detailing the combined transactions.
Just because less than 10k is exchanged at each casino doesn't mean YOU don't have to notify the IRS.
This is how I read the IRS rules, please correct if necessary.
A CTR isn't really an IRS form. It's not even clear that anyone ever reads it (there are a lot of them)
But, of course, all your income is taxable, whether you get a tax form or not. And, of course, just because you have payouts in the 10s of thousands of dollars does not mean that you are ahead. It is not uncommon for me to go home for a trip with 10s of thousands in W2Gs and a net loss.
Quote: 1arrowheaddrMy understanding is that if you made total cash transactions in a 24 hour period that exceeded 10k in one direction a CTR should be filed by the individual and sent to the IRS detailing the combined transactions.
Just because less than 10k is exchanged at each casino doesn't mean YOU don't have to notify the IRS.
This is how I read the IRS rules, please correct if necessary.
The CTR is sent to FinCEN a bureau of Treasury, how much is shared with the IRS (also a bureau of Treasury), I don't know.
I recently read a tax court case where the taxpayer was given probation for structuring due to making cash deposits over 10k in one day at multiple banks.
Quote: http://www.vegasinsider.com/mlb/odds/las-vegas/08/26 7:05 PM
901 St. Louis
902 Pittsburgh
LVH
-122 7½u-25
+124
MGM Mirage
-134 7½u-25
+115
William Hill
-135 7½u-15
+118
Wynn
-128 7½u-30
+115
Cantor Gaming
-125 7½u-20
+117
Station Casinos
-127 7½u-20
+115
Golden Nugget
7½u-15
+114
TI
-124 7½u-25
+115
SouthPoint
-125 7½u-20
+116
Stratospehre
-124 7½u-20
+115
Caesars
-130 7½u-15
+105
Jerrys Nugget
-120 7½u-15
+120
Boyd/Coast
-130 7½u-20
+115
Mon 8/25
Boxscore · Line Movements · Lineups · Recap
951 Washington Roark, T -130 7.5 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 1 2 6 0 Under: 5
952 Philadelphia « Burnett, A +120 0 0 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 3 8 0 Cover: +120
LVH LINE MOVEMENTS
Money Line Run Line Total 1st Half (5 Inn.) 2nd Half
Date Time Fav Dog Fav Dog Over Under Fav Dog Fav Dog
08/24 6:41pm WAS-144 PHI+134 PHI-140 WAS+120 7.5 -110 7.5 -110
08/24 7:58pm WAS-144 PHI+134 PHI-135 WAS+115 7.5 -110 7.5 -110
08/24 8:40pm WAS-148 PHI+138 PHI-135 WAS+115 7.5 -110 7.5 -110
08/25 7:55am PHI XX WAS XX PHI0 WAS XX XX XX XX XX
08/25 10:29am WAS-142 PHI+132 PHI-135 WAS+115 7.5 -120 7.5 +100
08/25 10:31am WAS-142 PHI+132 PHI-135 WAS+115 7.5 -120 7.5 +100 WAS-145 PHI+130
08/25 10:32am WAS-143 PHI+133 PHI-135 WAS+115 7.5 -120 7.5 +100 WAS-145 PHI+130
08/25 10:48am WAS-145 PHI+135 PHI-135 WAS+115 7.5 -120 7.5 +100 WAS-145 PHI+130
08/25 10:52am WAS-145 PHI+135 WAS-350 PHI+290 7.5 -120 7.5 +100 WAS-145 PHI+130
08/25 11:16am WAS-145 PHI+135 WAS-350 PHI+290 7.5 -125 7.5 +105 WAS-145 PHI+130
08/25 5:26pm WAS-139 PHI+129 WAS-340 PHI+280 7.5 -125 7.5 +105 WAS-140 PHI+125
08/25 5:26pm WAS-139 PHI+129 WAS-340 PHI+280 7.5 -125 7.5 +105 WAS-145 PHI+130
08/25 5:37pm WAS-135 PHI+125 WAS-340 PHI+280 7.5 -125 7.5 +105 WAS-140 PHI+125
08/25 6:00pm WAS-135 PHI+125 PHI-140 WAS+120 7.5 -125 7.5 +105 WAS-140 PHI+125
08/25 6:04pm WAS-132 PHI+122 PHI-140 WAS+120 7.5 -125 7.5 +105 WAS-140 PHI+125
08/25 6:10pm WAS-130 PHI+120 WAS-330 PHI-145 7.5 -125 7.5 +105 WAS-136 PHI+123
08/25 6:10pm WAS-130 PHI+120 WAS-330 PHI-145 7.5 -125 7.5 +105 WAS-140 PHI+125
08/25 7:02pm WAS-130 PHI+120 WAS-330 PHI-145 8.0 -125 8.0 +105 WAS-136 PHI+123
