LarryS
LarryS
Joined: Feb 26, 2011
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January 1st, 2014 at 8:38:28 AM permalink
Quote: Sabretom2

So hope is more than just a human emotion?



not only do they hope, but if you catch them late at night, you can see them on their knees praying to their horse god so they will have enough strength and emotional energy to win the next days race. After the race they usually give a shout out to their horse god as well....and thank their mom.

They are of course emotional wrecks because since early in life they have been seperated from their mom and dad, but they perservere to be "champions", the broken home drives them to have a "desire to win" manmade races. They desperately want to win and feel the pride and the glory.

Heck after the big race, and they are overheated and tired, getting that big blanket of flowers thrown over the neck is a real treat. They love that. And we humans proclaim "look at that horse trotting around showing off those flowers"....because we all know how horses love to show off blankets of flowers that they cant even see.

And then when the horse is alone after the win in its quarters, he reflects on the win, and calculates in his mind how he can do better next time....because after all....Lebron James does that.

they are so much like humans....its incredible.
If you put a top hat on some horses, you would swearthey were fred astaire,
treetopbuddy
treetopbuddy
Joined: Jan 12, 2013
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January 1st, 2014 at 8:58:35 AM permalink
Horses are not smart. They are animals.....animals are not smart. They can't think.

It's unnatural for horses to gallop at high speeds over long distances.

Race horses spent 23 hours a day or more in a 12x12 stall. Also unnatural. Nervous energy builds and builds then released on race day. The horses are simply expressing themselves physically
after an extended period of restraint.

Whipping a horse keeps most horses going. Doesn't hurt them......the horse believes a wild dog or tiger is nipping at it's hindquarters . Horses move away from pressure. Herd animals.

They have no concept of winning or losing.

"The outside of a horse is good for the inside of man"
Each day is better than the next
LarryS
LarryS
Joined: Feb 26, 2011
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January 1st, 2014 at 9:40:40 AM permalink
Quote: treetopbuddy

Horses are not smart. They are animals.....animals are not smart. They can't think.

It's unnatural for horses to gallop at high speeds over long distances.

Race horses spent 23 horses a day or more in a 12x12 stall. Also unnatural. Nervous energy builds and builds then released on race day. The horses are simply expressing themselves physically
after an extended period of restraint.

Whipping a horse keeps most horses going. Doesn't hurt them......the horse believes a wild dog or tiger is nipping at it's hindquarters . Horses move away from pressure. Herd animals.

They have no concept of winning or losing.

"The outside of a horse is good for the inside of man"



I tend to agree for the most part with you.

race horses are built from the ground up by humans. Mating the 2 horses, feeding the newborn special food that wouldnt be normally available in the wild in order to maximize growth and muscle tissue. Working the horses out, exercising htem, building up their muscle mass and lung capacity. Just like a mechanic carefuly building a race car.

By the time they are ready to race they have been built up physically, trained to respond to the whip and raced in trials with and without a gate.

They are physically superior equine specimins.

And then they put a jockey on its back that will make decisions to get it to the finish line through the path of least resistance.....and you have a winner. The combination of physical ability of the horse, and riding ability and decision making by the jockey. Just like with a race car. The best car wins unless the driver makes an error or cant overcome lousey post position.Or sometimes there is an unforseen mechanical failure.

Same with a horse. A jockey can make a poor decision, a horse can stumble or jump his shadow, a horse can have a headache( if horses get them like humans)

But one thing that doesnt come into play is the horeses "will to win" his "drive to be a champion", his "determination"..those are all human feelings that we bestow on horses
rxwine
rxwine
Joined: Feb 28, 2010
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January 1st, 2014 at 10:59:32 AM permalink
Quote: LarryS

Along with giving horses the human intellegence and thought processes..now someone is giving them superhuman qualities of tolerating whipping better than humans because horses must have no nerve endings in their "hide"/skin to let them know that their body is in danger, or to feel good when they get a hose turned on them or to feel heat when they are in the sun so they know to go to the shade. So whipping a horse is like tapping a human on the shoulder. All because those leather boots are so thick and really take alot of abuse.



Horse's live out on the Nevada range making no tents and or shelter 24/7. I'd wager you wouldn't make it with your skin and nothing else. You might even have to survive coyote bites once in awhile.
Quasimodo? Does that name ring a bell?
LarryS
LarryS
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January 1st, 2014 at 12:48:27 PM permalink
Quote: rxwine

Horse's live out on the Nevada range making no tents and or shelter 24/7. I'd wager you wouldn't make it with your skin and nothing else. You might even have to survive coyote bites once in awhile.



If a horse is out in a field in the blazing sun. and a tree is available...they will walk over to the tree for shade. Horses do it, cows do it....maybe your leather boots dont feel the need to shield themselves from the sun. but the same nerve endings that protect the horse from excessive sunlight by causing an uncomfortable feeling....are the same nerve endings that make them feel pain from whips or dogbite.

its funny how people bestow human cognative qualities to horses like they have a heart of a champion, a great will to win, an understanding of the concept of winning, a warrior, as if when they retire they can become great motivational speakers.
But when you whip these humanlike creatures that have all these great human yearnings and aspirations....they dont feel humiliated to be treated this way in public?...I know I would. If they feel all these other noble feelings attributed to great atheletes....why dont they feel humiliation when they are whipped in public. Why dont they feel defiance and hatred to their owners/riders for inflicting pain and forcing them to race, But these virtuous creatures who want to win, crave winning, need to be a chamnpion......are whipped...and all we can do to justifyit is to suppose that it really doesnt hurt them....its like a tiny little mosquito bite...and they will gladly go through this voluntarily because they have great heart and will to win.

Again, I am a horse racing fan knowing about the whipping all along and am not cringing over it. Its just for those that give these horses all the human attributes of a dedicated athelete, the reasoning abilities to win, the will to win, the champions heart...its a little disingenuos to overlook the other side of the issue. That these human like beings are being whipped, and hauled around long distances in hot trailers, kept on site at the track in cloed quarters, and whipped to go faster. Then when it comes to all those things...they are just animals...they dont mind it at all.
treetopbuddy
treetopbuddy
Joined: Jan 12, 2013
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January 13th, 2014 at 5:25:02 PM permalink
Horses when let out of a barn that is on fire will run back to their stall if not confined and controlled once let out......they consider their stall a safe place were they are feed, watered and groomed. Lots of terrible stories where horses were rushed out of burning barns only to run back in....horses are not smart. Beautiful and kind though.
Each day is better than the next
Tomspur
Tomspur
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January 13th, 2014 at 6:47:04 PM permalink
I don't have any reports to back up my statements and they are simply an opinion so if you don't agree with them, I respect that but you should also respect mine.

Horses may not be smart in that they can think, reason or rasionalize but they do have some ability to think. I have seen it on a hundreds of occasions that horses keep on running second in races some run 2nd for 10 or 11 runs in a row.......some doubt their ability to win because of a weak heart or their instincts to always want to follow another animal. then on one fine warm day, the horse wins a race. He then, after winning said race will continue on winning races, sometimes one or two more, sometimes a whole slew more including in graded company. This from the same animal that "liked" to run 2nd to another horse on multiple occasions. What made him change his mind? What made him decide that this particular race was going to be the turnaround in his racing style? Some say that horses on occasion lack "confidence". I'm not sure which part of the brain is your "confidence" part but perhaps the horse simply needed to learn that he didn't always have to follow another but that he could lead the others too? That has to prove that a harse has the ability to learn which in turn has to point to some kind of brain activity. I mean the jock doesn't string a carrot to a stick and hangs it in front of the horse to make it go "fetch", does he?

Also LarryS in one of your previous posts you said that a blinkered horse cannot see horses in front of him? By definition that is exactly what blinkers do. They force a horse to ONLY look in front of him and not to the sides. It is often a cure for a horse who doesn't concentrate while running or who veers off to one side or another because he sees other horses and he wants to run with them (heard mentality).

I certainly don't think horses are the most intelligent animals on the planet but I do think they have some ability to use their brains, limited as it may be.

Treetopbuddy, you are right about them being beautiful and kind though......in fact, for me, the MOST beautiful and kind animals on the planet!
“There is something about the outside of a horse that is good for the inside of a man.” - Winston Churchill
ontariodealer
ontariodealer
Joined: Aug 5, 2013
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January 13th, 2014 at 6:55:58 PM permalink
horse sense is what keeps them from betting on people.
get second you pig
Tomspur
Tomspur
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January 13th, 2014 at 7:37:44 PM permalink
Quote: ontariodealer

horse sense is what keeps them from betting on people.



LOL
“There is something about the outside of a horse that is good for the inside of a man.” - Winston Churchill
LarryS
LarryS
Joined: Feb 26, 2011
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January 13th, 2014 at 8:55:04 PM permalink
Quote: Tomspur

I don't have any reports to back up my statements and they are simply an opinion so if you don't agree with them, I respect that but you should also respect mine.

Horses may not be smart in that they can think, reason or rasionalize but they do have some ability to think. I have seen it on a hundreds of occasions that horses keep on running second in races some run 2nd for 10 or 11 runs in a row.......some doubt their ability to win because of a weak heart or their instincts to always want to follow another animal. then on one fine warm day, the horse wins a race. He then, after winning said race will continue on winning races, sometimes one or two more, sometimes a whole slew more including in graded company. This from the same animal that "liked" to run 2nd to another horse on multiple occasions. What made him change his mind? What made him decide that this particular race was going to be the turnaround in his racing style? Some say that horses on occasion lack "confidence". I'm not sure which part of the brain is your "confidence" part but perhaps the horse simply needed to learn that he didn't always have to follow another but that he could lead the others too? That has to prove that a harse has the ability to learn which in turn has to point to some kind of brain activity. I mean the jock doesn't string a carrot to a stick and hangs it in front of the horse to make it go "fetch", does he?

Also LarryS in one of your previous posts you said that a blinkered horse cannot see horses in front of him? By definition that is exactly what blinkers do. They force a horse to ONLY look in front of him and not to the sides. It is often a cure for a horse who doesn't concentrate while running or who veers off to one side or another because he sees other horses and he wants to run with them (heard mentality).

I certainly don't think horses are the most intelligent animals on the planet but I do think they have some ability to use their brains, limited as it may be.

Treetopbuddy, you are right about them being beautiful and kind though......in fact, for me, the MOST beautiful and kind animals on the planet!




Why would a horse who came in second 10 times in a row, and then comes in first 10 times in a row.....is it "confidence" or could it be:

it changed barns and trainers
it changes tracks...horses racing at Santa Anita...that get shipped to golden gate fields usually beat equal class horses there.
it had its diet changed
it had its vitamin supliments changed
it had its workout schedule changed
it increased muscle mass and is physically more fit from some of the above
its at the same track and class but just happens to be racing against lesser horses that he ran against in the first 10 races..or the horse is no longer racing against its regular nemesis that is just so much better


Blinkers restrict peripheral vision. If a horse is ahead of the horse with blinkers,..directly in front..the horse will see it.....or if the horse is way ahead of the horse with blinkers to the left or right....it will be within vision

But in a tight race......horses to the left or right lightly ahead of them is not seen. for example races won by a head, or a half length....the horse with blinkers may not have seen the other horse "win"

it has better sleeping accomodations and is happier because of it
it used to have a undetected gastro-intestinal issue that was discovered and fixed.

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