How do you deal with the tweakers and associated riff raff?
May 10th, 2023 at 9:32:25 PM
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In my area there are loads of tweakers and associated riff raff who will sit on machines, want a cut of the action to make them move and otherwise beg for money.
As an AP they cut into my profits, which I’m fine with competitions with other AP’s. Just not hobo hustling tweakers. They smell, use the proceeds for drugs and I want no involvement with them.
Is this isolated to my area or is this nationwide? Security doesn’t seem to care that these low lives are operating within their walls. They will literally exchange drugs in clear sight of the cameras. Seems so insane to me.
Fellow AP’s is this an issue in your area?
As an AP they cut into my profits, which I’m fine with competitions with other AP’s. Just not hobo hustling tweakers. They smell, use the proceeds for drugs and I want no involvement with them.
Is this isolated to my area or is this nationwide? Security doesn’t seem to care that these low lives are operating within their walls. They will literally exchange drugs in clear sight of the cameras. Seems so insane to me.
Fellow AP’s is this an issue in your area?
May 10th, 2023 at 9:47:04 PM
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Since drugs are legal in my area, the drug dealing bums with a couple quarters to rub together can play and deal. But I've got to say the high table minimums tends to keep the riff raff away because they certainly don't have $25 a hand bankrolls. Much of the country is an utter slum by now, and casinos are tourist traps for the rich. If there's a Ripley's Believe It Or Not near you, it's a tourist trap.
May 10th, 2023 at 9:50:56 PM
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True but I’m talking about meth. Which as far as I’m aware isn’t legal anywhere. I didn’t mean to come off as pretentious in my post but I’ve spoken to others and apparently these people don’t want help with their addictions. In my opinion they are nothing more than parasites. Why casinos allow them in is beyond me.
May 10th, 2023 at 9:53:04 PM
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If they are red chippers who count cards at the Black Jack tables, they will be dealt with.
May 10th, 2023 at 10:28:47 PM
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Quote: SlotenthusiastIn my area there are loads of tweakers and associated riff raff who will sit on machines, want a cut of the action to make them move and otherwise beg for money...Security doesn’t seem to care that these low lives are operating within their walls.
Huh?
It the P.O.S. meth heads are simply sitting there and not playing then have security come and tell them to play or move over.
I cannot imagine security would decline to do this, but if so go to the casino mgr. and complain.
Lots of tweakers in PNW tribal casinos.
"What, me worry?"
May 11th, 2023 at 5:28:17 AM
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I have never had a problem reporting to security people that are begging for money in the casino. Everytime that I have reported them security has had the person removed from the property.
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
May 11th, 2023 at 5:43:23 AM
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I don't report them if they ask once and move on. More than that and I'll call a slot attendant. I'm lucky in that I'm a fairly big guy and have been known to intimidate some people. I've seen panhandlers be far more aggressive with other people than with myself.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
May 11th, 2023 at 7:13:06 AM
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Quote: SlotenthusiastTrue but I’m talking about meth. Which as far as I’m aware isn’t legal anywhere. I didn’t mean to come off as pretentious in my post but I’ve spoken to others and apparently these people don’t want help with their addictions. In my opinion they are nothing more than parasites. Why casinos allow them in is beyond me.
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Meth heads and addictions are a scourge on society, no doubt. It’s a bummer our addiction treatment specialists in the US are generally unqualified to adequately identify differential diagnosis/multiple disease situations, making help usually ineffective even if one wants help.
I get a kick out of “your opinion” though. AP’s are parasites in the context of the casino environment. Hey I’m a parasite too.
Last edited by: mcallister3200 on May 11, 2023
May 11th, 2023 at 7:53:19 AM
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Quote: mcallister3200Quote: SlotenthusiastTrue but I’m talking about meth. Which as far as I’m aware isn’t legal anywhere. I didn’t mean to come off as pretentious in my post but I’ve spoken to others and apparently these people don’t want help with their addictions. In my opinion they are nothing more than parasites. Why casinos allow them in is beyond me.
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Meth heads and addictions are a scourge on society, no doubt. It’s a bummer our addiction treatment specialists in the US are generally unqualified to adequately identify differential diagnosis/multiple disease situations, making help usually ineffective even if one wants help.
I get a kick out of “your opinion” though. AP’s are parasites in the context of the casino environment. Hey I’m a parasite too.
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I agree with your assessment of the lack of mental health and drug addiction treatment in this country.
I do not agree that we’re parasites. We put a lot of coin in on machines risking tens of thousands per week. We don’t always win on every play. The casino has to pay out that amount regardless. Plus a lot of AP’s still gamble.
The parasitic tweakers on the other hand do nothing for the casino other than harass everyone and commit crimes. Sure they may play 1 cent a push on Keno, but I’m pretty sure their stench that gets stuck in the seats costs more than the revenue they bring in.
May 11th, 2023 at 9:45:15 AM
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This thread reminds me, that I’m somewhat glad to see the casino I visit more often because of its proximity didn’t automatically remove all the plexiglas barriers in between machines. They deflect smoke some as well. If I really want to talk to someone without the barrier, just lean back a little.
There's no secret. Just know what you're talking about before you open your mouth.
May 11th, 2023 at 10:06:56 AM
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Quote: SlotenthusiastQuote: mcallister3200Quote: SlotenthusiastTrue but I’m talking about meth. Which as far as I’m aware isn’t legal anywhere. I didn’t mean to come off as pretentious in my post but I’ve spoken to others and apparently these people don’t want help with their addictions. In my opinion they are nothing more than parasites. Why casinos allow them in is beyond me.
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Meth heads and addictions are a scourge on society, no doubt. It’s a bummer our addiction treatment specialists in the US are generally unqualified to adequately identify differential diagnosis/multiple disease situations, making help usually ineffective even if one wants help.
I get a kick out of “your opinion” though. AP’s are parasites in the context of the casino environment. Hey I’m a parasite too.
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I agree with your assessment of the lack of mental health and drug addiction treatment in this country.
I do not agree that we’re parasites. We put a lot of coin in on machines risking tens of thousands per week. We don’t always win on every play. The casino has to pay out that amount regardless. Plus a lot of AP’s still gamble.
The parasitic tweakers on the other hand do nothing for the casino other than harass everyone and commit crimes. Sure they may play 1 cent a push on Keno, but I’m pretty sure their stench that gets stuck in the seats costs more than the revenue they bring in.
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Fair enough they are drastically different categories at the least.
But as far as “how we deal with” these people, from my perspective I think the fact that if identified the AP is likely also considered a type of parasite by the casino means that there’s not really any decent solution for how to deal with these people.
May 11th, 2023 at 6:50:31 PM
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I honestly don't see them in Southern California. Maybe the casinos are better at kicking them out. I know there was some kid in the parking lot who claimed he needed money for a ride after being kicked out for not having ID, but looked like a tweaker, I reported him to security and they immediately deployed over there. Another time I was playing in high limit after midnight and someone was falling asleep in the next aisle, they tapped his shoulder pretty quickly and got him to either gamble or go to his car.
May 12th, 2023 at 5:25:04 AM
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Some places are worst than others but they seem to be everywhere nowadays. There were a few well-known hustler Advantage Player drug attics back in the '90s here in Vegas. 3 of the most notorious ones were all named Jack. They were actually smart guys if not for the drugs.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
May 12th, 2023 at 6:58:42 AM
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Quote: AxelWolfSome places are worst than others but they seem to be everywhere nowadays. There were a few well-known hustler Advantage Player drug attics back in the '90s here in Vegas. 3 of the most notorious ones were all named Jack. They were actually smart guys if not for the drugs.
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Finally someone who gets it. I agree they are pretty smart if not for the drugs. However they’re probably not as useful when they can’t stay awake for three days straight as a result of their drug use.
May 12th, 2023 at 8:55:10 AM
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How do you deal with the tweakers and associated riff raff? Simple, go somewhere else.Quote: SlotenthusiastIn my area there are loads of tweakers and associated riff raff who will sit on machines, want a cut of the action to make them move and otherwise beg for money.
As an AP they cut into my profits, which I’m fine with competitions with other AP’s. Just not hobo hustling tweakers. They smell, use the proceeds for drugs and I want no involvement with them.
Is this isolated to my area or is this nationwide? Security doesn’t seem to care that these low lives are operating within their walls. They will literally exchange drugs in clear sight of the cameras. Seems so insane to me.
Fellow AP’s is this an issue in your area?
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I've never seen this problem in Wynn or Bellagio. If one can't afford places like that...well, stop complaining and start dealing with the situation and clientele, because, like it or not, this is where your life choices have brought you.
Last edited by: UP84 on May 12, 2023
May 12th, 2023 at 12:04:41 PM
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They are in those places as well. Perhaps you are not an AP who spends a significant amount of time targeting certain machines that attract those types as well. You may just not be noticing them.Quote: UP84How do you deal with the tweakers and associated riff raff? Simple, go somewhere else.Quote: SlotenthusiastIn my area there are loads of tweakers and associated riff raff who will sit on machines, want a cut of the action to make them move and otherwise beg for money.
As an AP they cut into my profits, which I’m fine with competitions with other AP’s. Just not hobo hustling tweakers. They smell, use the proceeds for drugs and I want no involvement with them.
Is this isolated to my area or is this nationwide? Security doesn’t seem to care that these low lives are operating within their walls. They will literally exchange drugs in clear sight of the cameras. Seems so insane to me.
Fellow AP’s is this an issue in your area?
link to original post
I've never seen this problem in Wynn or Bellagio. If one can't afford places like that...well, stop complaining and start dealing with the situation and clientele, because, like it or not, this is where your life choices have brought you.
link to original post
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
May 12th, 2023 at 12:10:17 PM
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Quote: SlotenthusiastIn my area there are loads of tweakers and associated riff raff who will sit on machines, want a cut of the action to make them move and otherwise beg for money.
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I would report them to security. Even if he asked for $20 for a $100 EV play, I still would, just based on principle. I'd probably get the game after they threw him out anyway.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
May 12th, 2023 at 4:57:34 PM
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Quote: WizardQuote: SlotenthusiastIn my area there are loads of tweakers and associated riff raff who will sit on machines, want a cut of the action to make them move and otherwise beg for money.
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I would report them to security. Even if he asked for $20 for a $100 EV play, I still would, just based on principle. I'd probably get the game after they threw him out anyway.
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I’m in agreement with you, but the problem is you may end up bumping into that person again. Then what? I’m not interested in getting into a ufc match with tweakers. As fun as that could be.
May 12th, 2023 at 7:06:28 PM
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Quote: SlotenthusiastI’m in agreement with you, but the problem is you may end up bumping into that person again. Then what? I’m not interested in getting into a ufc match with tweakers. As fun as that could be.
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I'll take that chance (although easier said than done). Sometimes you take a risk doing the right thing.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
May 12th, 2023 at 8:39:39 PM
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Perhaps, but you are in a drastically different position than most machine vulture /APs. You are willing to make that call because your livelihood doesn't revolve around making money from AP slots. Most of the time it's better to keep your head down and move on.Quote: WizardQuote: SlotenthusiastI’m in agreement with you, but the problem is you may end up bumping into that person again. Then what? I’m not interested in getting into a ufc match with tweakers. As fun as that could be.
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I'll take that chance (although easier said than done). Sometimes you take a risk doing the right thing.
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♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
May 12th, 2023 at 11:09:42 PM
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Quote: SlotenthusiastQuote: WizardQuote: SlotenthusiastIn my area there are loads of tweakers and associated riff raff who will sit on machines, want a cut of the action to make them move and otherwise beg for money.
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I would report them to security. Even if he asked for $20 for a $100 EV play, I still would, just based on principle. I'd probably get the game after they threw him out anyway.
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I’m in agreement with you, but the problem is you may end up bumping into that person again. Then what? I’m not interested in getting into a ufc match with tweakers. As fun as that could be.
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I think the manner one invites house security involvement may play a factor.
Shouting "SECURITY!" and pointing at the panhandler from 5 feet away while loudly describing their actions may be less desirable than, say, talking to security on the other end of the casino about a guy in a green hat who wouldn't let you play a Kitty Glitter machine over by the craps tables unless you coughed up a tip.
It might even go better if you talked to your host about what made today's visit so unsatisfying.
May the cards fall in your favor.
May 13th, 2023 at 12:50:12 AM
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Huge issue in my area. But seems most APs are willing to pay so they aren't going away. I personally don't pay either. If nobody payed they would go away.
Calling security is tricky because it attracts attention to us. Since so many APs pay and are on good terms with these people calling security on them will get back to the rest of the APs that we work with and may share plays info etc. I certainly don't want to burn that.
Unless the the druggie is really bothering people they aren't getting kicked out. The casino knows they are getting the 20% back.
Example recently homeless/druggie finds a play on piggies. Big hitter AP guy plays hits the $16K mega. Gives druggie $2700 not quite 20%. Everyone is happy as can be. By the next morning the homeless guys has given the $2700 back to the casino and is upset telling everyone AP screwed him b/c he didn't get 20%.
Big issue is the degenerate leeches. They aren't homeless or druggies. Nice guys but never have any money to play borderline stuff. They find buffalo, piggies hex etc. stuff that isn't guaranteed they want 20%. But if they find 15 blue on a regal they ain't calling anyone to play it they keep it for themselves 100%. That is my reasoning why I never give anyone anything. These leeches only want wins with no risk. If the AP plays buffalo and loses no worries to the leech because they don't have any risk.
Calling security is tricky because it attracts attention to us. Since so many APs pay and are on good terms with these people calling security on them will get back to the rest of the APs that we work with and may share plays info etc. I certainly don't want to burn that.
Unless the the druggie is really bothering people they aren't getting kicked out. The casino knows they are getting the 20% back.
Example recently homeless/druggie finds a play on piggies. Big hitter AP guy plays hits the $16K mega. Gives druggie $2700 not quite 20%. Everyone is happy as can be. By the next morning the homeless guys has given the $2700 back to the casino and is upset telling everyone AP screwed him b/c he didn't get 20%.
Big issue is the degenerate leeches. They aren't homeless or druggies. Nice guys but never have any money to play borderline stuff. They find buffalo, piggies hex etc. stuff that isn't guaranteed they want 20%. But if they find 15 blue on a regal they ain't calling anyone to play it they keep it for themselves 100%. That is my reasoning why I never give anyone anything. These leeches only want wins with no risk. If the AP plays buffalo and loses no worries to the leech because they don't have any risk.
May 13th, 2023 at 11:41:18 AM
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Lots of people where I roam too.
In theory, I would love for them to be kicked out, but I also acknowledge that I am probably worse for the casino than they are. So calling in security might also put more attention on me than them.
While some can be intimidating to other patrons of the casino, at least they don't run away with their winnings. I do. So whom do the casinos want more?
I will on occasion play a machine that someone else was holding and flagged me down - but only if it is in a very good state. Otherwise, better to leave them sitting on the machine for the next hour. If I play, and even if I make a few bucks, I have just unleashed another competitor on the floor. If they are stuck there, that's one less competition to worry about.
The real problem are the ones that can't help but tell all their friends about the system, or the ones eager to explain the machines to anyone next to them. :)
In theory, I would love for them to be kicked out, but I also acknowledge that I am probably worse for the casino than they are. So calling in security might also put more attention on me than them.
While some can be intimidating to other patrons of the casino, at least they don't run away with their winnings. I do. So whom do the casinos want more?
I will on occasion play a machine that someone else was holding and flagged me down - but only if it is in a very good state. Otherwise, better to leave them sitting on the machine for the next hour. If I play, and even if I make a few bucks, I have just unleashed another competitor on the floor. If they are stuck there, that's one less competition to worry about.
The real problem are the ones that can't help but tell all their friends about the system, or the ones eager to explain the machines to anyone next to them. :)
May 13th, 2023 at 3:05:59 PM
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Has anyone thought about just posting up sign around vulnerable slots that say “no tweakers and associated riff-raff?”
They don’t seem like the type to follow such a sign, but it’s a thought anyways.
They don’t seem like the type to follow such a sign, but it’s a thought anyways.
May 14th, 2023 at 1:47:38 PM
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I've seen guys with their phone plugged in to a slot machine and a backpack on the floor. Cargo shorts and an oversized t-shirt with the sleeves ripped off. Face unshaven, hair uncombed and a sunburn. One missing tooth.
Sometimes I'll walk by and just say "that one looks good", talking about the machine. The deal is that they'll let me bet it and we'll split any profits. Since I take on all of the risk and only get half the winnings, it is most definitely a bad bet for me. But because it's usually going to be less than $20 of action, the total loss in value is like $1. That's worth it to be able to ask them if they've seen anything else good. There have been a few times I have got some worthwhile information. If this happens at a place where I can get comped drinks, I'll ask if they want anything.
Sometimes I'll walk by and just say "that one looks good", talking about the machine. The deal is that they'll let me bet it and we'll split any profits. Since I take on all of the risk and only get half the winnings, it is most definitely a bad bet for me. But because it's usually going to be less than $20 of action, the total loss in value is like $1. That's worth it to be able to ask them if they've seen anything else good. There have been a few times I have got some worthwhile information. If this happens at a place where I can get comped drinks, I'll ask if they want anything.
May 14th, 2023 at 1:56:52 PM
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Treat them with kindness. What a revolutionary idea.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
May 15th, 2023 at 12:51:30 PM
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I don’t know what you are talking about. We have none of these people here in the casinos in Reno. You would eliminate the majority of these “UD” undesirable if you just station a security guard at each entrance. These UD would be less inclined to enter if they know that they would have to confront security from the get go.
May 15th, 2023 at 2:29:49 PM
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Quote: billryanTreat them with kindness. What a revolutionary idea.
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I agree. In fact I try to stay friendly. That doesn't mean I have to support their habit or make deals with them.
May 15th, 2023 at 6:40:36 PM
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Oh, it's easy for Bill to say since he isn't the AP trenches. You can be friendly and caring all you want, Perhaps 1 out of 50 times it might be warranted and worthwhile. The rest of the time they are trying to lift your wallet and FK over your grandmother over at all costs. It's rare you will find someone of good nature, but it does happen. You need to use your best judgment but it's best to avoid ALL of them if you're judgment isn't spot on.Quote: MukkeQuote: billryanTreat them with kindness. What a revolutionary idea.
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I agree. In fact I try to stay friendly. That doesn't mean I have to support their habit or make deals with them.
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Come on Billryan think about this, don't be contrarian just for the sake of being contrarian.
Last edited by: AxelWolf on May 15, 2023
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
May 15th, 2023 at 8:48:08 PM
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Tom G came up with the idea. I endorsed it.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
May 15th, 2023 at 11:07:53 PM
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I respect and like Tom G very much, and I'm not arguing with his approach, I too have done the same and more. It's probably beneficial to him and them. I wouldn't call it an act of kindness. If he claims that's his only motivation/intention, I will accept and believe that in his case. I think you misunderstood this approach as kindness. Obviously a step above assholeishness, that's to be commended.Quote: billryanTom G came up with the idea. I endorsed it.
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I'm just warning people that showing too much kindness to the "TWEAKERS AND ASSOCIATED RIFF RAFF" will eventually bring you grief, disappointment, and possibly worst if you're not careful. I fear someone too nice and inexperienced might take the kindness approach and get burnt in the process. I have seen and heard too many bad situations as a result of being kind to this particular crowd. Assuming the riff-raff and tweakers are not actually harming anyone, 90% of the time the best option is to avoid and ignore them.
FYI, sometimes, the casinos toss out the babies with the bathwater.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
May 16th, 2023 at 6:08:08 PM
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What would your approach be if they asked you for a few dollars to catch the bus?
May 16th, 2023 at 7:20:17 PM
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Quote: Roberto21What would your approach be if they asked you for a few dollars to catch the bus?
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It's really funny how every single person who has asked me for a few dollars for bus fare has told me that they don't want a bus pass and made unwholesome suggestions about what I could do with it.
May the cards fall in your favor.
May 16th, 2023 at 10:38:27 PM
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I would ask Karen, Nathan, Kentry and Tasha for $1 each. I would give the person asking $2 and pocket the other $2.Quote: Roberto21What would your approach be if they asked you for a few dollars to catch the bus?
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♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
