heatmap
heatmap
  • Threads: 259
  • Posts: 2229
Joined: Feb 12, 2018
April 17th, 2023 at 12:52:26 PM permalink
Quick question for the game inventors... would it be legal to have a slot machine that has reels with SYMBOLS that have dynamic positions

the probabilities will NOT change only the positions of the symbols on the reel

Spins would look something like this -

Spin 1






Symbol Position Reel 1 Reel 2 Reel 3
1 1 5 10
2 2 10 20
3 4 20 40


Spin 2






Symbol Position Reel 1 Reel 2 Reel 3
1 4 20 40
2 1 5 10
3 2 10 20
DRich
DRich
  • Threads: 86
  • Posts: 11597
Joined: Jul 6, 2012
April 17th, 2023 at 1:56:56 PM permalink
I can't think of any reason that you couldn't do it at least in Nevada. You would have to run all of the different possible outcomes to determine the payback percentage.
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
DJTeddyBear
DJTeddyBear
  • Threads: 207
  • Posts: 10992
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
April 17th, 2023 at 2:54:29 PM permalink
A better question would be, if the math isn’t gonna change, why would you want to change the positions?
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ ————————————————————————————————————— Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
heatmap
heatmap
  • Threads: 259
  • Posts: 2229
Joined: Feb 12, 2018
April 17th, 2023 at 3:11:39 PM permalink
Quote: DJTeddyBear

A better question would be, if the math isn’t gonna change, why would you want to change the positions?
link to original post



im not sure yet im trying to understand any random scenario that i can think of to help me when i actually program whatever thing i make ... i think i completely understand how a slot machine works on a programming level and for some reason my mind is abstracting all of it into wierd questions like this

i also asked this in another thread

Quote: DRich

Quote: heatmap


I have an off topic question for you

say i want to create a slot machine - i have no clue if this has ever been done before but im going to assume it might have

my idea works like this -

i have static reels size doesnt matter in this example. On each spin I am choosing a starting point on each reel randomly. This is how I assume a basic slot machine works.

the way my slot machine will differ is that for each spin, and before the random stop position is chosen - i will randomly assign a number of the stopping positions a random probability amount - and the random probability amounts are the numbers that are then used in the generation of the random numbers

example

this is an example of a pregenerated probability table that could come out after the spin button is pressed but before the results are actually generated


Reel Stopping Position Probability Of being chosen
1 1 50%
1 2 25%
1 3 25%


instead of just grabbing a random number, scaling, and then using that number on the strip, there is the process of assigning or creating the random probability table.

does this make any sense to you or am i just rambling on about crazy stuff?



I think I understand your process but I don't know what your goal is or how it would change anything. The blended averages of you pre-generated probability table could just be put into a static reel strip to generate the same results.
link to original post

Dieter
Administrator
Dieter
  • Threads: 16
  • Posts: 5479
Joined: Jul 23, 2014
April 17th, 2023 at 3:34:05 PM permalink
Quote: DJTeddyBear

A better question would be, if the math isn’t gonna change, why would you want to change the positions?
link to original post



Why wouldn't the math change?
May the cards fall in your favor.
heatmap
heatmap
  • Threads: 259
  • Posts: 2229
Joined: Feb 12, 2018
April 17th, 2023 at 3:43:22 PM permalink
Quote: Dieter

Quote: DJTeddyBear

A better question would be, if the math isn’t gonna change, why would you want to change the positions?
link to original post



Why wouldn't the math change?
link to original post



well i said it wouldnt change probabilities... but the math may change (hit frequency) to something less as frequent i would assume
Mental
Mental
  • Threads: 13
  • Posts: 1240
Joined: Dec 10, 2018
April 17th, 2023 at 7:29:15 PM permalink
Are you familiar with slots with stacked symbols? For stacked reels, even the probabilities change from spin to spin depending on which symbol gets selected to be stacked. If that is permitted, then shuffling the positions on the virtual reel strip while keeping the weighting constant should be easy to get approved.
This forum is more enjoyable after I learned how to use the 'Block this user' button.
Wizard
Administrator
Wizard
  • Threads: 1491
  • Posts: 26435
Joined: Oct 14, 2009
April 17th, 2023 at 7:32:40 PM permalink
Quote: DRich

I can't think of any reason that you couldn't do it at least in Nevada. You would have to run all of the different possible outcomes to determine the payback percentage.
link to original post



I agree with this. I'm sure there is no rule against it, so have at it.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
heatmap
heatmap
  • Threads: 259
  • Posts: 2229
Joined: Feb 12, 2018
April 18th, 2023 at 4:57:34 AM permalink
Quote: Mental

Are you familiar with slots with stacked symbols? For stacked reels, even the probabilities change from spin to spin depending on which symbol gets selected to be stacked. If that is permitted, then shuffling the positions on the virtual reel strip while keeping the weighting constant should be easy to get approved.
link to original post



Another reason I ask these questions is to hopefully show me that inventing is hard and most people will do things without questioning forums like this ... I also find it hard that a peon such as myself would be the first to think of or try anything like this

I was trying to also see if drich or the wizard would tell me my idea has been done and that it wouldn't fly legally but here I am trying to think if I could actually do something cool with this idea

If it's possible can you try to find the patent for the stacked symbol process or possibly who manufacturers the slots that contain that feature because it'll give me a good start to trying to find out if this particular idea has been patented in some form or another.
Mental
Mental
  • Threads: 13
  • Posts: 1240
Joined: Dec 10, 2018
Thanked by
heatmap
April 18th, 2023 at 5:57:01 AM permalink
Quote: heatmap

Quote: Mental

Are you familiar with slots with stacked symbols? For stacked reels, even the probabilities change from spin to spin depending on which symbol gets selected to be stacked. If that is permitted, then shuffling the positions on the virtual reel strip while keeping the weighting constant should be easy to get approved.
link to original post



Another reason I ask these questions is to hopefully show me that inventing is hard and most people will do things without questioning forums like this ... I also find it hard that a peon such as myself would be the first to think of or try anything like this

I was trying to also see if drich or the wizard would tell me my idea has been done and that it wouldn't fly legally but here I am trying to think if I could actually do something cool with this idea

If it's possible can you try to find the patent for the stacked symbol process or possibly who manufacturers the slots that contain that feature because it'll give me a good start to trying to find out if this particular idea has been patented in some form or another.
link to original post

If you want to see stacked symbols on steroids, play Big 5 Safari or its clones. You can get stacks of multiple different symbols on the same spin. It would be impossible to fill the screen and trigger the progressive hunt without stacks of symbols. I don't have any idea of how they choose the stacks, but it is clear that the lower value symbols stack more often.

I spent some time working on Scarab when it was fairly new. IIRC, usually only one symbol is stacked on any given spin. You will frequently see two or three stacks on the five reels with each stack using the same symbol. Maybe for one spin in 30, you will see two stacks on different reels using two different symbols. Three different stacks is very rare. Again, it is clear that the lower value symbols stack more often for Scarab. The Scarab Queen is the exception. She always comes in a stack four slots high, and she can appear when another symbol is stacked on different reels.

I can't understand what your idea is, but as long as it doesn't stack symbols, then it should not infringe on any patent. The two games I mentioned are by IGT, but WMS and AGS also use tall stacks. However, it is very common for slot designers to use some stacking or clumping of symbols. I think every slot game that I play a lot uses stacks or clumping. The reason is that it increases volatility without increasing RTP. If you have a 30-line game without clumping, you will seldom generate big wins. With 243-line games, almost every spin would be nearly a push without clumping/stacking of symbols.
This forum is more enjoyable after I learned how to use the 'Block this user' button.
heatmap
heatmap
  • Threads: 259
  • Posts: 2229
Joined: Feb 12, 2018
April 18th, 2023 at 6:16:09 AM permalink
Quote: Mental


I spent some time working on Scarab when it was fairly new.
link to original post



like you helped program or work on the art or something?
Mental
Mental
  • Threads: 13
  • Posts: 1240
Joined: Dec 10, 2018
Thanked by
heatmap
April 18th, 2023 at 6:53:15 AM permalink
Quote: heatmap

Quote: Mental


I spent some time working on Scarab when it was fairly new.
link to original post



like you helped program or work on the art or something?
link to original post

No, I developed a model of how the reels were stacked by reverse engineering some online videos and by playing it myself in B&M casinos.

I have not worked with any game developers since around 2005.
This forum is more enjoyable after I learned how to use the 'Block this user' button.
heatmap
heatmap
  • Threads: 259
  • Posts: 2229
Joined: Feb 12, 2018
April 18th, 2023 at 8:25:11 AM permalink
Quote: Mental

Quote: heatmap

Quote: Mental


I spent some time working on Scarab when it was fairly new.
link to original post



like you helped program or work on the art or something?
link to original post

No, I developed a model of how the reels were stacked by reverse engineering some online videos and by playing it myself in B&M casinos.

I have not worked with any game developers since around 2005.
link to original post



theres a guy here who uses (computer vision?) to do the same thing interesting dude he is
  • Jump to: