scolist
Joined: Mar 16, 2018
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December 17th, 2019 at 6:54:57 PM permalink
Quote: ThatDonGuy

You can calculate the hold for a VP machine based on its paytable.

For slot machines, the Nevada Gaming Control Board maintains data on slot machine holds, but it's by county, and broken down by the various denominations of machine (penny, quarter, dollar, and so on), with Megabucks machines counted separately.
Click Here to go to the main statistics page, then click on any of the "PDF" tags to see the one-month, three-month, and 12-month reports ending in that month. The "Win Percent" column is the average hold.

Got it. Thank you very much!
There's no way out of here When you come in You're in for good There was no promise made The part you played The chance...........you took
TDVegas
Joined: Oct 30, 2018
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December 17th, 2019 at 7:07:19 PM permalink
Quote: MaxPen

The problem with those ads are that they are highly misleading. They factor VP returns into to those numbers but advertise "slots" as all machines as a whole.

That figures. Always pulling an angle.
ThatDonGuy
Joined: Jun 22, 2011
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December 17th, 2019 at 7:38:07 PM permalink
Quote: Boz

Do you have a program to plug these numbers into that would show the payback percentage?

Putting the numbers into a spreadsheet, I get a total payout of \$27.69 million, which means the payback is 27.69/36 = 76.91% - that's high for a scratch-off game. I don't think they can be that high in California, since 1/3 of the money is supposed to go into education (translation: it replaces the equivalent amount moved from education into the "general fund").
Mission146
Joined: May 15, 2012
• Threads: 123
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December 18th, 2019 at 6:58:04 AM permalink
Quote: ThatDonGuy

Putting the numbers into a spreadsheet, I get a total payout of \$27.69 million, which means the payback is 27.69/36 = 76.91% - that's high for a scratch-off game. I don't think they can be that high in California, since 1/3 of the money is supposed to go into education (translation: it replaces the equivalent amount moved from education into the "general fund").

Here's an example from the Missouri Lottery:

http://www.molottery.com/where_the_money_goes/documents/fy18_cafr.pdf

I wanted to look up California, but they are in the process of changing the lottery website and the .pdf addresses for previous annual reports that I have do not seem to work anymore. There also does not appear to be any links to annual reports from the website, (which there are supposed to be) but that site seems like it's a work in progress...so who knows?

If you go to page 24, it shows the totals for the scratchers sales and for the scratchers payouts, so you simply divide payouts by sales to get an approximate return-to-player, in this case:

627758243/906750562 = 0.69231635392 or 69.232% overall. (All denominations included)

They also have 18M in unclaimed prizes, but it doesn't specify what of that is scratchers v. other games.

Many lottery reports will break down prizes/sales by denomination and others by game for scratchers, but this one appears not to do so.

Here's the one for Ohio:

https://www.ohiolottery.com/assets/pdf/about/CAFR_FY18_lowrez.pdf

If we go to Page 57, then we see that prizes for instants were 1.1187B whereas sales were 1.6006B for about 11187/16006 = 69.893% (rounded)

Again, that's with actual prize payouts, so uncashed probably makes it a little higher. The best I can tell, they have 52.9M in unclaimed prizes, but it's impossible to tell how much of that comes from scratchers.

Anyway, I think the Ohio thing I replied to on Facebook, the side bet was a little over 70% (barely) so I extrapolated from the lottery data that a \$5 ticket would likely be almost as much (or more) given the fact that it is a higher denomination and also accounting for potential unpaid prizes.

In any case, instant tickets (and you can pull up other annual lottery reports if you like, they're easy to find, just type (state) ANNUAL LOTTERY REPORT and it will usually work) generally pay somewhere from the mid-60's to the mid-70's in percent. Some states break it down by denomination, as well, I thought Ohio had been one, but was apparently mistaken. I checked five states and none of those ones did, but I know I have certainly seen it. Apparently, it's not standard, but I think it should be.
Vultures can't be choosers.
Mission146
Joined: May 15, 2012
• Threads: 123
• Posts: 12837
December 18th, 2019 at 7:03:15 AM permalink
Quote: ThatDonGuy

Putting the numbers into a spreadsheet, I get a total payout of \$27.69 million, which means the payback is 27.69/36 = 76.91% - that's high for a scratch-off game. I don't think they can be that high in California, since 1/3 of the money is supposed to go into education (translation: it replaces the equivalent amount moved from education into the "general fund").

That hasn't been the case for years:

https://www.pressdemocrat.com/news/8454282-181/report-california-lottery-sales-are?sba=AAS

It says the current education contribution is about 23 cents (or percent) of all revenues, but even that doesn't seem to be strictly required.
Vultures can't be choosers.
bobbartop
Joined: Mar 15, 2016
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December 18th, 2019 at 7:35:14 AM permalink
"California ranked 42nd nationally in education"

"California trails much of the country when it comes to public education, according to Education Week's new state rankings."

published Jan 18, 2017
'Emergencies' have always been the pretext on which the safeguards of individual liberty have been eroded.
billryan
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
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December 18th, 2019 at 7:51:24 AM permalink
Quote: TDVegas

At my casino....many of the video poker machines will say it right on the machine. "98% Payback". I don't play video poker so I am not familiar with every VP machine....but many state the payback (up to 100%) on some.

I'll see if I can get a picture up.

Every true video poker machine gives it payback, if you know how to read the pay tables. Problem is many VP machines offer multiple games and only one of them might pay 98%. Most players are clueless. Many others know to look at the full house/ flush payouts to determine the percentage and don't notice a different hand may pay sub-optimal.
Slots are a different animal. You can't determine payback percentages based on a pay table.
scolist
Joined: Mar 16, 2018
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December 18th, 2019 at 8:30:38 AM permalink
Quote: billryan

Every true video poker machine gives it payback, if you know how to read the pay tables. Problem is many VP machines offer multiple games and only one of them might pay 98%. Most players are clueless. Many others know to look at the full house/ flush payouts to determine the percentage and don't notice a different hand may pay sub-optimal.
Slots are a different animal. You can't determine payback percentages based on a pay table.

The payback percentage is what I'm trying to find, but consider me clueless. Can anyone help me understand? A PM would be great.

Right now I'm closest to RW Catskills.

Thanks!
There's no way out of here When you come in You're in for good There was no promise made The part you played The chance...........you took
Mission146
Joined: May 15, 2012
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December 18th, 2019 at 8:38:32 AM permalink
Quote: scolist

The payback percentage is what I'm trying to find, but consider me clueless. Can anyone help me understand? A PM would be great.

Right now I'm closest to RW Catskills.

Thanks!

Just pop the game and paytable here:

https://wizardofodds.com/games/video-poker/analyzer/

For the games that aren't some sort of gimmick. It also works for a select few games in which the overall return is unchanged by the feature, such as Hot Roll.
Vultures can't be choosers.
scolist
Joined: Mar 16, 2018
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December 18th, 2019 at 9:11:01 AM permalink
Quote: Mission146

Just pop the game and paytable here:

https://wizardofodds.com/games/video-poker/analyzer/

For the games that aren't some sort of gimmick. It also works for a select few games in which the overall return is unchanged by the feature, such as Hot Roll.

Thanks Mission146, that helps a lot, and I've been using that trainer since I joined this sight ( 2x d, 5x w). But I think I got stuck on the trainer and failed to pay enough attention to understand the strategies/frequencies.

I'm sure actual seat time at the casino would help?
There's no way out of here When you come in You're in for good There was no promise made The part you played The chance...........you took

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