Poll

No votes (0%)
3 votes (21.42%)
1 vote (7.14%)
6 votes (42.85%)
1 vote (7.14%)
4 votes (28.57%)
1 vote (7.14%)
2 votes (14.28%)
2 votes (14.28%)
2 votes (14.28%)

14 members have voted

darkoz
darkoz
Joined: Dec 22, 2009
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September 7th, 2019 at 10:55:35 AM permalink
Quote: MDawg

Lot of silly suggestions above such as "buy a fake ID" - merely possessing such a thing let alone presenting it for any purpose is illegal.

Also Romes keeps saying "we did nothing wrong" - the moment he claimed to be someone else, he took a step in the wrong direction. Understood, he panicked, but most anything he said at that point "I was playing for someone else" might have been disputed IF they had the cameras turned on that particular area for long enough.

In any case, here he violated some casino rules against playing with someone else's player card, and essentially "transferring / using someone else's comps" - all the casinos have rules against that. It wasn't just a flat win against cash he won playing against some kind of promotion / comps and therein would be the argument the casinos would use to not pay him - that to even begin to play or win he had to have essentially transferred someone else's free play to himself. Darkov also doesn't put a nickel into any machine he just plays with free play which results in cashouts, and if the casinos used their heads they would block his collecting along these same lines. If I were the casino general counsel this is how I'd put a stop to all this.



1) wrong vs legal. Perhaps there is the difference

What Romes means is he did nothing illegal and therefore nothing wrong under the law. Which is all we care about. People fighting for morals or breaking house rules can go suck an egg.

We win in court. You dont.

2) MDawg, you dont understand what I do. I guarantee I dont take freeplay without spending a nickel. I only wish I could affect that.

If there is anyplace where the statement, "nothing comes for free" is true, it pertains to what I do.

EDIT: And I am not Russian. Its not Darkov lol
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
MDawg
MDawg
Joined: Sep 27, 2018
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September 7th, 2019 at 11:10:37 AM permalink
I am not on the casino's side. Just saying that even if you mix your cash with someone else's comps the argument could be made that you're using/transferring someone else's comps (free play, whatever) to get to your ultimate win. And that's the argument to be made to put a stop to all this. Because you know that all the casinos have rules in place about how comps/free play are not transferable or usable by anyone else.

Anyway I gotta get downstairs and put in some more play to qualify for winning this Bacc. tournament. All these casinos have hoops they put in front of us, one way or another. I don't like it anymore than you do.
darkoz
darkoz
Joined: Dec 22, 2009
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September 7th, 2019 at 11:42:52 AM permalink
Quote: MDawg

I am not on the casino's side. Just saying that even if you mix your cash with someone else's comps the argument could be made that you're using/transferring someone else's comps (free play, whatever) to get to your ultimate win. And that's the argument to be made to put a stop to all this. Because you know that all the casinos have rules in place about how comps/free play are not transferable or usable by anyone else.

Anyway I gotta get downstairs and put in some more play to qualify for winning this Bacc. tournament. All these casinos have hoops they put in front of us, one way or another. I don't like it anymore than you do.



That argument they use already

They put a stop to.it all the time by reneging on offers and shutting off cards.

But legally thats all their recourse. And I suppose 86'ing me if they wish. But that doesn't stop me either. I just send in my crew
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
prozema
prozema
Joined: Oct 24, 2016
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September 7th, 2019 at 1:53:27 PM permalink
Im sure none of this will help, but I felt compelled to reply since I was named in the poll.

I've shown ID at the cage several times when cashing out slot tickets that are above, at, or near hand pay amounts. I've received no blowback. Im still welcome in those casinos. The casino has even had me waiting at the cage for 10+ minutes while they find a manager to verify and authorize the pay out. This has happened with my personal card and on a friend's card. My last OSN check was about a month ago, and I'm not in there.

There is clearly more to the story than what's in the thread... Because waiting days to cash a large ticket is not something a normal gambler does. A normal gambler cashes big tickets before they leave, asks for the money in all $1 bills, and informs the cashier that it will be raining at the gentleman's club in 25 minutes.

I've never had a machine tell me a ticket was locked. I have had machines tell me a ticket cannot be cashed here and must be taken to the cashier. That is the result of size and not a managers action. Sometimes they want ID and sometimes they don't.

The only thing I would check is whether ALL the machines will refuse the ticket. I.e. some payoff machines might have different caps... And whether the ticket can still be played in a slot. That would be useful information. If another slot machine will take the ticket, I wouldn't sweat it.

The disclaimer worth adding is that I'm an amateur, not a pro... So if I get the boot, I still eat.

Side note: Almost all the first hand ID horror stories I've heard are from table game and video poker players. Slot players tend to get a lot of room. I'd be more worried if I was asked for ID while playing the machine than I would be when cashing out... If anyone is willing to share a slot ID horror story, I'd love to hear from you.
"A little luck never hurt any fisherman, that's all I know." - Sig Hansen
prozema
prozema
Joined: Oct 24, 2016
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September 7th, 2019 at 1:55:48 PM permalink
Quote: Zcore13


...then you take the loss. Part of the game.
ZCore13



Boo!
"A little luck never hurt any fisherman, that's all I know." - Sig Hansen
Romes
Romes
Joined: Jul 22, 2014
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September 7th, 2019 at 3:52:38 PM permalink
Quote: MDawg

...Also Romes keeps saying "we did nothing wrong" - the moment he claimed to be someone else, he took a step in the wrong direction...

1) There was zero panic at all. I go by many names, SUCH AS ROMES. If someone says "who are you" and I say "Romes" am I taking a step in the wrong direction? He didn't even say "what's your name" he said "who are you" so I can say anything I go by, if you want to split silly hairs.

2) Playing on another persons card is not against the casino rules, of any casino I've ever been in in my entire life. Husbands and wives play on the same card, and are encouraged too, right? Where's the rule that says you have to be married? Hint: There isn't one. You can't have an unwritten rule and expect to be enforced. I used no one else's comps. Again, NOTHING AT ALL, EVEN TECHNICALLY, was done wrong.

Quote: MDawg

Now Darkov comes in and says "I am using someone else's card with his permission" - I'd say fine, but any comps or free play that were on that card are voided the moment anyone else tries to use it, for any purposes, included for winning.

Yeah, there's literally case law setting precedent that this is okay... and being a professional we've had experience with gaming and talked to them about it to confirm in the states we play in. So please don't tell me what I'm doing wrong when you clearly don't know what's right and wrong.
Playing it correctly means you've already won.
Mission146
Mission146
Joined: May 15, 2012
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Thanks for this post from:
michael99000SOOPOOrdw4potusSandybestdog
September 7th, 2019 at 3:58:35 PM permalink
I’m inclined to side with AP’s, and I side with you, but have you read players club terms and conditions? Admittedly, I’ve not read them all, but most if not all that I have say the players card is only to be used by that player, in not so many words.
Vultures can't be choosers.
ChumpChange
ChumpChange
Joined: Jun 15, 2018
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September 7th, 2019 at 4:01:57 PM permalink
I've never talked to gaming enforcement, and I hope I'm never put in a position where I have to. That must be a nightmare. I wouldn't even know how to start. Anybody wanna explain any scenarios they've had getting gaming enforcement on the scene and winning their cases, like at the cage?
MDawg
MDawg
Joined: Sep 27, 2018
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September 7th, 2019 at 4:30:37 PM permalink
I'm in the middle of a long Vegas trip, winning all week so far, so not going to argue with Romes too much as I haven't the time, but:

ALL of the major casinos have rules that comps are non transferable and that no one else may use your player card.

EXample:
https://www.caesars.com/myrewards/caesars-rewards-rules-regs
4. The benefits of the Program are intended and solely for the use of the person listed on the account (“Member”).
5. A Member may not allow any other person to use his or her Caesars Rewards card or access his or her account. Caesars Rewards cards are non-transferable.

https://www.mgmresorts.com/en/mlife-rewards-program/program-rules.html
7. Except as permitted by these Terms and Conditions, a member may not transfer, sell, purchase, trade or barter an M life Rewards Card, M life Rewards account, points, complimentaries (“comps”), Express Comps, Tier Credits or any membership benefit to another individual. Violators of this rule are subject to termination of M life Rewards Program membership and forfeiture of rewards including, but not limited to, accumulated points, Express Comps, Tier Credits and/or benefits, and may be liable for damages and litigation costs, including any Program attorneys’ fees incurred in enforcing this rule.
14. An M life Rewards member may not accrue M life Rewards loyalty balances including, but not limited to, Tier Credits, Express Comps, and points and/or “comps” or any other membership benefits if his/her M life Rewards Card is used by another individual.


Maybe he is playing at some two bit casino that doesn't have these same types of rules, but I doubt it.

His mentioning "case law" is odd as these types of cases don't go all the way to appellate courts, they are stopped cold with the terms and conditions of the casinos in lower courts (if they ever go to court at all), or with gaming.

If he has something to say, at least he could back it up by giving us the terms and conditions of the exact casino he played at, and give us the cites for the appellate cases that he claims apply to the casino he was at. That would be something, otherwise, nothing he has said so far is of any relevance.

Again, I am not on the side of the casino, but I am on the side of Reality, not some free wheeling Marx Brothers approach.
darkoz
darkoz
Joined: Dec 22, 2009
  • Threads: 214
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September 7th, 2019 at 4:52:19 PM permalink
Quote: MDawg

I'm in the middle of a long Vegas trip, winning all week so far, so not going to argue with Romes too much as I haven't the time, but:

ALL of the major casinos have rules that comps are non transferable and that no one else may use your player card.

EXample:
https://www.caesars.com/myrewards/caesars-rewards-rules-regs
4. The benefits of the Program are intended and solely for the use of the person listed on the account (“Member”).
5. A Member may not allow any other person to use his or her Caesars Rewards card or access his or her account. Caesars Rewards cards are non-transferable.

https://www.mgmresorts.com/en/mlife-rewards-program/program-rules.html
7. Except as permitted by these Terms and Conditions, a member may not transfer, sell, purchase, trade or barter an M life Rewards Card, M life Rewards account, points, complimentaries (“comps”), Express Comps, Tier Credits or any membership benefit to another individual. Violators of this rule are subject to termination of M life Rewards Program membership and forfeiture of rewards including, but not limited to, accumulated points, Express Comps, Tier Credits and/or benefits, and may be liable for damages and litigation costs, including any Program attorneys’ fees incurred in enforcing this rule.
14. An M life Rewards member may not accrue M life Rewards loyalty balances including, but not limited to, Tier Credits, Express Comps, and points and/or “comps” or any other membership benefits if his/her M life Rewards Card is used by another individual.


Maybe he is playing at some two bit casino that doesn't have these same types of rules, but I doubt it.

His mentioning "case law" is odd as these types of cases don't go all the way to appellate courts, they are stopped cold with the terms and conditions of the casinos in lower courts (if they ever go to court at all), or with gaming.

If he has something to say, at least he could back it up by giving us the terms and conditions of the exact casino he played at, and give us the cites for the appellate cases that he claims apply to the casino he was at. That would be something, otherwise, nothing he has said so far is of any relevance.

Again, I am not on the side of the casino, but I am on the side of Reality, not some free wheeling Marx Brothers approach.



While I have seen cssinos allow husband and wife swapping of cards for the most it IS against house rule.

It is spelled out in most literature.

Like entering a club without proper attire the only thing that you are doing is violating house rules. You can't get arrested for not wearing proper attire in a club and you cant get arrested for using other players cards including use of freeplay with players permission

Mdawg, what case law are you referring to. Never heard of lower courts getting involved since there is no criminality here. Are you referring to civil litigation?
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee

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