FinsRule
FinsRule
Joined: Dec 23, 2009
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Thanks for this post from:
Mission146
January 23rd, 2019 at 12:22:27 PM permalink
Lol. Itís absolutely about slots. You guys are funny.

No need to read into any of it. I just think penny slots are dumb and boring. Iíd like her to at least have a shot of coming out ahead. Are .25 cent slots better at 3 lines than 75 cents a spin of a penny slot?

Like I wrote before, if Iím playing slots, Iíd rather do a higher demonination so winning 100 credits actually means something.
billryan
billryan
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
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January 23rd, 2019 at 12:29:09 PM permalink
Sometimes a slot is just a slot. Other times it can be...Ö

Think of it like this. If Gawd didn't love penny slots, she wouldn't make so many of them.
DRich
DRich
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Thanks for this post from:
beachbumbabs
January 23rd, 2019 at 12:37:32 PM permalink
Quote: FinsRule

Are .25 cent slots better at 3 lines than 75 cents a spin of a penny slot?



In general yes. If you avoid the progressive mechanical slots the hold is only about half of what the penny slots are.

I always tell people to play the Blazing 7's, Sizzling 7's, and Double Diamond three reel slots. They seem to be less volatile with fair paybacks.
Living longer does not always infer +EV
Minty
Minty
Joined: Jan 23, 2015
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January 23rd, 2019 at 1:33:59 PM permalink
I think a bit of slow conditioning is in order here. Slowly ease her into higher denomination, better payback machines. Instead of 2 hours a week at penny slots first week is 1 hour and 45 minutes with 15 minutes of something better. Progress each week and repeat!
"Favorable bets are called 'investments.' Unfavorable bets constitute 'gambling.' -William Poundstone quoting John Kelly Jr. in Fortune's Formula
KevinAA
KevinAA
Joined: Jul 6, 2017
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January 23rd, 2019 at 2:03:08 PM permalink
Quote: FinsRule

Lol. Itís absolutely about slots. You guys are funny.

No need to read into any of it. I just think penny slots are dumb and boring. Iíd like her to at least have a shot of coming out ahead. Are .25 cent slots better at 3 lines than 75 cents a spin of a penny slot?

Like I wrote before, if Iím playing slots, Iíd rather do a higher demonination so winning 100 credits actually means something.



A few years ago, I tried to explain to my friends when it's a good time to cash out, and it was just a waste of time. They just do what they want. If they asked for assistance, sure, I'll help... it happened zero times.

This one guy had a strategy where he would start his gambling day on penny machines min bet (20, 30 or 40 cents), and if $20 turns into $80, he would take that voucher over to the $1 denom three mechanical reels (if not, try it again with another $20 at another penny machine). If the $1 denom wins enough to justify going to $2 or $3 or even $5 a spin, he'll do that. 99+% of the time, this strategy fails at some point, usually at the first step, and of course he loses everything. But one time he did successfully parlay money from machine to machine and walked away with $2,000. If it cost him $20,000 in losses to get that incredibly lucky streak win of $2,000, he didn't know and didn't care.

So I guess it just depends on what your wife is open to. If she's set in her ways like the people I knew, just give it up as a lost cause, and look at the bright side, that she's contributing to casino profit so they have better games to offer for the rest of us. If everyone played low edge table games, the casinos would remove them and make you play slots or go home.

You could suggest no-progressive 25c 5 lines, or $1 5 lines (my only W-2G was on a Double Diamond $1x5, hit the jackpot on line 5, $5,000, and my bankroll was only $60). Single line has a lot of variance in one spin, which is why I like the 5 lines. You win something fairly frequently, but not so frequently like a penny machine where you bet 30 cents and win 12 cents on a regular basis, which is just stupid.

One hurdle to overcome that I can see if she takes your advice and switches to a different type of slot machine, is that betting five quarters (or even worse, five dollars) with the same bankroll, is going to result in a session that is much shorter than 30c penny machines. I'm sure this is why people play those slots. They know nothing about math, but experience tells them that $100 in a min bet penny machine last a long time, whereas $100 in a $1 machine can lose it all in 10 minutes or win enough to cash out in 10 minutes, and the problem with winning a lot in 10 minutes is that one can be tempted to keep going, and then it turns into zero and it's only been 30 minutes. Back to the penny machine, that same $100 would have lasted me two hours!
Mission146
Mission146
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January 24th, 2019 at 2:42:15 PM permalink
Quote: FinsRule



So I guess what I'm asking for is help in these two areas:

1) How to convince her that there is no way that her players card in the slot can affect the results of a spin.
2) A better slot machine for her to play. (She refuses to play VP) Let's say her average bankroll is $100-$200 for a trip.

I'm not sure if there is an answer to #2, but I'm not an expert at slots. If I ever play a slot machine, I'll put $20 in a .25 Wheel of Fortune machine and get mad and cash out when I get the bonus and it's 40 credits.



1.) Would it help to inform her she always loses without her card in, as well?

2.) The thing that you have to understand here is the nature of penny slots. The nature of penny slots is such that they are flashy, it doesn't seem like you're losing much (with small bets) because you're not losing it particularly quickly and that you get frequent small wins, which stimulate the reward center of the brain and make you want to play more. The tens of lines also seem like they provide more ways to win than something like Video Poker, of course, many of these are just partial wins of less than the amount bet.

These partial wins also seem like they reduce Variance somewhat, but they don't always. Lots of the return percentage can be tied up in Free Games and there may be ways of hitting hundreds (literally) of Free Games depending on the game, so there's Variance in all of that. Even if they did reduce Variance all the time, a reduction of Variance isn't necessarily a good things when you're eating a House Edge of 10-15%. A game where she hands me $5.00 and I give her back $4.50 every time has no Variance whatsoever, and I'll play that game with her all day long if she really wants to.

That said, nothing really plays like a penny game. Except maybe a penny-style game at a bigger denomination for bigger money. They give you extremely frequent wins and the amounts to be won vary wildly and are unpredictable. With Video Poker, many Video Keno games and older slot machines it's just, "Hit this, get paid this." That's why the variants of Video Poker with multipliers, extra cards (Super Six Card), bonus wheels and such have taken off as well as they have...wider range of results and more Variance. Spin Poker literally looks like a slot machine, but that wasn't good enough for everyone, so they added Super Times Pay and Ultimate X to some of them and also have Triple Spin Poker and all kinds of other crazy s***.

The other thing is that betting $0.30, $0.40, $0.50 per spin on a penny machine seems like it makes $100-$200 last forever and gives plenty of chances. Look at a $0.40 bet, the expected loss at 15% is still only $0.06/spin. 200/.06 = 3,333.33, so your theoretical expectation is to go roughly 3,333.33 spins (long run) before you lose that $200. In the meantime, most people will not win enough at once (by their standards) to quit, so the whole $200 goes bye-bye one way or another.

Meantime, let's imagine a single-line dollar slot machine that you have to bet $3 on with a 5% House Edge. You could bet $1, but the jackpot schedule goes 2500-5000-10,000, so wouldn't one feel silly to bet a single dollar and only get 75% of the jackpot relative to the amount bet? Saving nearly $0.10/spin, but I guess that's neither here nor there. The percentage ER technically makes the $3 the best bet.

Anyway, so you're there and you're betting the $3 and you're either winning or losing $3 every spin. Many of them, you get a blank on the first reel and you already know the spin is as good as over. How much can you win? Check the paytable, it's all there. You lose FAR more spins than you win and you can easily drop $100-$200 within ten-twenty minutes.

So, look at it: You can't lose $200 within twenty minutes on a penny slot betting $0.40 per spin because you're not even going to take that many spins to make that possible in that timeframe. Meantime, some dollar machines it's nothing to lose the entire amount bet 20-30 spins in a row from time to time.

More than that, the $3 bet at a 5% HE has an expected loss of $0.15/spin whereas the penny machine with the $0.40 bet has an expected loss of $0.06/spin. Your $200 is expected to get you 3,333.33 spins on pennies in those specific conditions and 1,333.33 spins on the $3 bet on the dollar machine.

Many penny slot players it seems that time value and being able to play and relax for a consistent amount of time each visit is a primary concern. If her concern was truly winning, for her or anyone else, she or anyone else would have long since realized that they are not expected to do that. If she thinks she is, just ask her to write down her results when done playing (but before leaving the casino), or text those results to you before leaving, for the next ten visits. It's not about winning for her, despite what she may say to the contrary.

Quick Hits Platinum isn't an awful choice at $0.30/spin. She could roll up a few sets of pretty decent Free Games as well as a 7QHP symbols or two within a relatively short time frame and maybe finish $100 ahead every once in a while. Usually not. She's still much more likely to lose all $100 or $200 before ever being ahead that amount. If her goal were to win or lose $100 and she is going to quit after being ahead $100, I would suggest she might win about anywhere from 1 in 8 to 1 in 10 sessions. That's not really based on more than an educated guess and the fact that I'm quite familiar with that game.
Vultures can't be choosers.
FinsRule
FinsRule
Joined: Dec 23, 2009
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January 28th, 2019 at 5:52:21 PM permalink
So we went to the casino together (Horseshoe Hammond) on Saturday. We were trying to think of the last time that it was just the two of us together at a casino, and we figured it was at least two years ago.

Iím doing no gamble January, so this was all about my wife and the games she wanted to play.

So I stood next to her while she played those dumb penny slots I hate. She lost $150 in an hour and I was miserable. We were losing money and it wasnít fun at all. So while she was finishing up the $150 I offered to scout the casino for the next game. She wanted me to leave because my ďnegativity was ruining our chancesĒ

I went to find a quick hits based on some advice from my smart slot friends on this forum.

Iím sure you can guess how the story will end.

Should I Darkoz serialize it?
FinsRule
FinsRule
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January 28th, 2019 at 5:55:24 PM permalink
No. I wonít.

So I show her the quick hits machine. She says it looks dumb. We put $20 in there and after a few spins at max bet ($1.50) we hit 5 QH for $17.50. Another couple spins later, another 5. So itís going well, and a few minutes later... 7 QH! $180 for us!

Then a free spin bonus where we win $40.

We cash out $200 and somehow we climbed back out of this hole.

Iím sure you can once again guess what is going to happen...
FinsRule
FinsRule
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January 28th, 2019 at 6:00:46 PM permalink
With our new bankroll, my wife is even more excited to play her stupid games.

We lose $100 of the $200 over the next 2 hours on games where we really have no shot of winning.

We finish with an hour of Pai Gow Poker where she ends up winning about $35.

We then head home in a snowstorm talking about how we both had a pretty lousy time.

Her conclusion was that maybe we just shouldnít go to the casino together. My conclusion was that we can go to the casino, but we go with our own money, and check in on each other occasionally, and maybe play some pai gow together when we are in the mood.

It was kind of sad because we used to go to the casino together twice a week when we were in our 20s.

Now, it looks like our gambling tastes have changed. Thatís ok, just something different.

Thanks everyone for your suggestions, and thanks for listening!
EvenBob
EvenBob
Joined: Jul 18, 2010
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January 28th, 2019 at 6:08:41 PM permalink
Quote: FinsRule

I probably exaggerated a bit with the title ďsave my marriage.Ē

But it is something we bicker about after she comes home from the casino losing $100.



Been there, now I say nothing. Once,
about 20002, we were in Soaring
Eagle and had to drive home, 90
minute drive. My wife wouldn't
leave and wouldn't leave so at
midnight I grabbed her 1/4 full
bucket of quarters and threw
it on the floor where quarters
exploded everywhere.

Man, was she pissed. But she
left and didn't speak all the
way home. To this day she
doesn't remember that with
any humor. She would have
sat there till 3am trying to
get her money back.

Women think when they quit
speaking to us that it's a
punishment. If they only knew
the truth. Keep talking, that's
the punishment..
"It's not enough to succeed, your friends must fail." Gore Vidal

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