beachbumbabs
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beachbumbabs
Joined: May 21, 2013
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December 31st, 2018 at 12:09:33 PM permalink
Quote: darkoz

If that is one reason then the casinos are even stupider than we all think

Filing most civil cases has a 1 year statute of limitations. Furthermore once filed a competent attorney files a notice to the casino for all documentation to be saved. Finally failing to save all pertinent info to purposely avoid lawsuits usually winds up in court censure and default judgements



Gotta disagree with you on this.

Data retention is a very serious issue in Air Traffic. We had checklists as supervisors/controllers-in-charge that had to be completed and signed off/logged each business day. Unless there was an official inquiry into a particular day's data, all paper and electronic copies were destroyed, including frequency tapes, time sheets, flight data strips, whatever, each on its own schedule (14 days, 30 days, 1 year).

It's my understanding this was so liability protections would stand. I think it was also to defeat FOIA suits not promptly brought. But more than one controller sweated out the 14 days until the tape was destroyed, if they put something boneheaded on the air. Me included.

all of those record retentions had been specified in CFRs, which is federal regulation the government must follow procedurally. Must protect all records until the moment they are destroyed, and destroy them immediately upon due date.

If casinos are keeping records like that, it is because the governing jurisdiction requires it. They might have their own purposes on a small amount of it, like a trail for repeat cheaters or scammers, but they cant want the vast amount of it cluttering up their storage areas or waiting to be FOIAd or Gaming equivalent.

Point being, statutes on record tend to be sufficient notice to all parties on record retention. No court is going to find an entity purposefully negligent if they have record retention procedures published and follow them. Even if the overall purpose in having retention procedures is to thwart litigation.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
darkoz
darkoz
Joined: Dec 22, 2009
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December 31st, 2018 at 1:23:45 PM permalink
Quote: beachbumbabs

Gotta disagree with you on this.

Data retention is a very serious issue in Air Traffic. We had checklists as supervisors/controllers-in-charge that had to be completed and signed off/logged each business day. Unless there was an official inquiry into a particular day's data, all paper and electronic copies were destroyed, including frequency tapes, time sheets, flight data strips, whatever, each on its own schedule (14 days, 30 days, 1 year).

It's my understanding this was so liability protections would stand. I think it was also to defeat FOIA suits not promptly brought. But more than one controller sweated out the 14 days until the tape was destroyed, if they put something boneheaded on the air. Me included.

all of those record retentions had been specified in CFRs, which is federal regulation the government must follow procedurally. Must protect all records until the moment they are destroyed, and destroy them immediately upon due date.

If casinos are keeping records like that, it is because the governing jurisdiction requires it. They might have their own purposes on a small amount of it, like a trail for repeat cheaters or scammers, but they cant want the vast amount of it cluttering up their storage areas or waiting to be FOIAd or Gaming equivalent.

Point being, statutes on record tend to be sufficient notice to all parties on record retention. No court is going to find an entity purposefully negligent if they have record retention procedures published and follow them. Even if the overall purpose in having retention procedures is to thwart litigation.



Its quite possible we are crossing wires here

I am quite certain there are different requirements for non-incident surveillance and record keeping vs incidents

Tapes that just captured players gambling might be destroyed within weeks

An incident where surveillance monitors a person being ejected will need to be kept longer.

First thing an attorney does in possible litigation circumstances is notify the casino of future action AND a legal request for all documentation to be preserved in matters pertaining to the case

Any casino that then moves forward to destroy documents does so at their own peril.

This has occurred before and always to the casinos detriment!!!
CrystalMath
CrystalMath 
Joined: May 10, 2011
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December 31st, 2018 at 1:27:02 PM permalink
Quote: darkoz

Which goes towards my observation that vouchers that may be flagged often dont have copy flag commands

Again I have found that adding money to a ticket I know is flagged will often create a new barcode missing that flag.

Basically the new barcode has to contain the cash deposit information - a new barcode is in essence created. And since nothing instructs the software to copy the original barcodes flags you wind up with an unflagged voucher



Promotional money that is flagged to be non-cashable will never turn cashable. Once you play through the non-cashable portion, then you can cashout whenever you wish.
I heart Crystal Math.
darkoz
darkoz
Joined: Dec 22, 2009
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Thanks for this post from:
Mooseton
December 31st, 2018 at 1:52:04 PM permalink
Quote: CrystalMath

Promotional money that is flagged to be non-cashable will never turn cashable. Once you play through the non-cashable portion, then you can cashout whenever you wish.



We agree

Im not referring to the normal course of flags

Ex.

$200 freeplay. Gamble thru the entire $200. Have $160 left over

NOW you print out the voucher. If the redemption machines all say go see cashier thar voucher may have a security flag so they can watch who is cashing it out

Adding money before printing out vouchers gleaned from freeplay playthrough will usually eliminate the security flag because they lack a copy flag command

That may not work everywhere. But I have observed it in a few locales

I usually come across these security flags when the casino thinks someone else is utilizing the freeplay other than the named cardholder

EDIT: The reason for this roundabout method instead of just a security alert when inserting the card is they dont know what the cardholder looks like in general. A man using another mans card cannot be summarily flagged. However if you approach the cashier with a flagged voucher and are asked for ID that is to make a match against that flagged voucher
WalterW
WalterW
Joined: Dec 29, 2018
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January 1st, 2019 at 5:23:34 PM permalink
Quote: darkoz

$200 freeplay. Gamble thru the entire $200. Have $160 left over

NOW you print out the voucher. If the redemption machines all say go see cashier that voucher may have a security flag so they can watch who is cashing it out

Adding money before printing out vouchers gleaned from freeplay playthrough will usually eliminate the security flag because they lack a copy flag command


Would it work if you insert a $20 bill first, gamble thru the $200 freeplay, then immediately cashout? You still didn't play a penny of your own money.

Let's say there's $3000 voucher that has accumulated 10 freeplay sessions from 10 different cards on different machines,
If you insert the $3000 voucher into machine A, played through another freeplay on 11th card and cash out, will machine A record all the data history of that voucher?
darkoz
darkoz
Joined: Dec 22, 2009
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Thanks for this post from:
WalterW
January 1st, 2019 at 5:30:55 PM permalink
Quote: WalterW

Would it work if you insert a $20 bill first, gamble thru the $200 freeplay, then immediately cashout? You still didn't play a penny of your own money.

Let's say there's $3000 voucher that has accumulated 10 freeplay sessions from 10 different cards on different machines,
If you insert the $3000 voucher into machine A, played through another freeplay on 11th card and cash out, will machine A record all the data history of that voucher?



Theoretically they can.

In practice I have not seen it. I often piggyback one freeplay with another. Its no problems cashing out. This can go on months with no issues

Either the data is not being retained or the tons of metadata collected from the thousands of customers daily isnt being analyzed. Probably too much data to sift through.

Its certainly not something they would have a dedicated staff member doing. So data thats there and unseen is the same as a tree making a sound in an empty wood.

I have seen two simultaneously downloaded freeplays freeze an account

Ex. Download $100 freeplay. Then pull out card (when freeplay does not reload onto account) and downloaded a second players freeplay before playing thru the first

Husband and wives sometimes do that and have to go to customer service. No serious AP would make that mistake I hope
DRich
DRich
Joined: Jul 6, 2012
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January 1st, 2019 at 5:53:49 PM permalink
Quote: darkoz



Either the data is not being retained or the tons of metadata collected from the thousands of customers daily isnt being analyzed. Probably too much data to sift through.



Generally they do not look at that data unless something else jumps out to them as suspicious.
Living longer does not always infer +EV

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