frisbee25
frisbee25
  • Threads: 12
  • Posts: 27
Joined: Oct 8, 2014
May 26th, 2016 at 1:07:29 PM permalink
If a person doesn't have hand ranges for their opponents in fixed limit holdem are you out of luck then?
MrGoldenSun
MrGoldenSun
  • Threads: 3
  • Posts: 252
Joined: Apr 1, 2016
May 26th, 2016 at 1:29:36 PM permalink
Can you rephrase the question? I am not sure what you're asking.
Romes
Romes
  • Threads: 29
  • Posts: 5600
Joined: Jul 22, 2014
May 26th, 2016 at 1:30:41 PM permalink
You need to add a lot more detail... Are you asking if you don't know what kind of range your opponent is playing can you not win then? Well there's a lot more to it than that. You might not have a range but each and every action at the table tells a story. When an opponent checks, when he raises, in PL or NL how much the raise is, physical tells, etc. So you can still figure out what someone has even if you don't have a specific "range" you think they're playing within.

Range is good for tournaments (level changes) and players that go on tilt. It's a good way to understand the broader spectrum of possibilities for someone at any given time.
Playing it correctly means you've already won.
frisbee25
frisbee25
  • Threads: 12
  • Posts: 27
Joined: Oct 8, 2014
May 26th, 2016 at 1:50:59 PM permalink
Yes, I am asking can a person win or not lose without knowing the information of how loose or tight each person is?
MrGoldenSun
MrGoldenSun
  • Threads: 3
  • Posts: 252
Joined: Apr 1, 2016
May 26th, 2016 at 9:53:41 PM permalink
At low stakes, you can usually play a generic strategy and win. It helps to have a little info though. Even knowing if the table in aggregate is loose or tight makes a big difference.
Romes
Romes
  • Threads: 29
  • Posts: 5600
Joined: Jul 22, 2014
May 27th, 2016 at 7:26:36 AM permalink
Quote: MrGoldenSun

At low stakes, you can usually play a generic strategy and win...

Yep. We call it "ABC Poker." Check/Fold when you don't got it, max it out when you do and enough poor players at lower limits will usually try to pay you off.
Playing it correctly means you've already won.
PokerGrinder
PokerGrinder
  • Threads: 26
  • Posts: 5013
Joined: Apr 30, 2015
May 27th, 2016 at 9:29:13 AM permalink
Quote: Romes

Yep. We call it "ABC Poker." Check/Fold when you don't got it, max it out when you do and enough poor players at lower limits will usually try to pay you off.


Wait Romes slow down I can't write that fast. So I bet when I have IT and fold when I don't? What happens if I have IT and bet but then I look down and I've lost IT. Someone could steal IT or what happens if I drop IT on the floor? Can I just pick IT back up? :)
You can shear a sheep a hundred times, but you can skin it only once. — Amarillo Slim Preston
TwoFeathersATL
TwoFeathersATL
  • Threads: 37
  • Posts: 3616
Joined: May 22, 2013
May 27th, 2016 at 10:09:42 AM permalink
Quote: PokerGrinder

Wait Romes slow down I can't write that fast. So I bet when I have IT and fold when I don't? What happens if I have IT and bet but then I look down and I've lost IT. Someone could steal IT or what happens if I drop IT on the floor? Can I just pick IT back up? :)

I did not write that ;-)
Youuuuuu MIGHT be a 'rascal' if.......(nevermind ;-)...2F
Ayecarumba
Ayecarumba
  • Threads: 236
  • Posts: 6763
Joined: Nov 17, 2009
May 27th, 2016 at 11:05:33 AM permalink
Quote: Romes

Yep. We call it "ABC Poker." Check/Fold when you don't got it, max it out when you do and enough poor players at lower limits will usually try to pay you off.



I call this "Live Video Poker" You only play strong hands, and do not bother trying to bluff anyone off their hand. The caps on Limit Hold Em make it nearly impossible to use bet size as a weapon. If you play this way, you do not need to know a lot about your opponent's patterns.

It is hard to win consistently since the value of skill is near zero in this game.
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication - Leonardo da Vinci
Ibeatyouraces
Ibeatyouraces
  • Threads: 68
  • Posts: 11933
Joined: Jan 12, 2010
May 27th, 2016 at 11:17:37 AM permalink
Affectionately called "no fold 'em hold 'em."
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
PokerGrinder
PokerGrinder
  • Threads: 26
  • Posts: 5013
Joined: Apr 30, 2015
May 27th, 2016 at 11:31:09 AM permalink
Quote: TwoFeathersATL

I did not write that ;-)


Or did you...? Maybe you hacked my account and wrote it. It does sort of sound like you :)
You can shear a sheep a hundred times, but you can skin it only once. — Amarillo Slim Preston
MrGoldenSun
MrGoldenSun
  • Threads: 3
  • Posts: 252
Joined: Apr 1, 2016
May 27th, 2016 at 12:20:45 PM permalink
Quote: Ayecarumba

the value of skill is near zero in this game.



That is not true. There are very wide skill differences among players. Variance is still applicable as always, but it is certainly possible to be a much better player than the rest of the table and to be playing with an edge.
Ayecarumba
Ayecarumba
  • Threads: 236
  • Posts: 6763
Joined: Nov 17, 2009
May 27th, 2016 at 2:19:53 PM permalink
Quote: MrGoldenSun

That is not true. There are very wide skill differences among players. Variance is still applicable as always, but it is certainly possible to be a much better player than the rest of the table and to be playing with an edge.



True, but perhaps only at the 8/16 kill level and above. 2/4 or 4/8 is really "no fold em", as many players will simply call down hands they might otherwise have folded in no limit.
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication - Leonardo da Vinci
MrGoldenSun
MrGoldenSun
  • Threads: 3
  • Posts: 252
Joined: Apr 1, 2016
May 28th, 2016 at 4:57:56 PM permalink
Quote: Ayecarumba

True, but perhaps only at the 8/16 kill level and above. 2/4 or 4/8 is really "no fold em", as many players will simply call down hands they might otherwise have folded in no limit.



Having everyone calling every bet is extremely profitable for a good player. "No foldem" is sometimes a roller coaster, but I love a table where nobody can fold a hand. It's the most profitable game type if you know how to play the right strategy, which is a skill in itself. It can be frustrating in some ways though, because you will get outdrawn pretty often.
bobbartop
bobbartop
  • Threads: 133
  • Posts: 2594
Joined: Mar 15, 2016
May 28th, 2016 at 6:37:47 PM permalink
Quote: PokerGrinder

Wait Romes slow down I can't write that fast. So I bet when I have IT and fold when I don't? What happens if I have IT and bet but then I look down and I've lost IT. Someone could steal IT or what happens if I drop IT on the floor? Can I just pick IT back up? :)




I have a reoccurring dream where I am involved in a pot with heavy action and suddenly I look back at my hand and it is total garbage, or there is an extra card. It's a nightmare.
'Emergencies' have always been the pretext on which the safeguards of individual liberty have been eroded.
DrawingDead
DrawingDead
  • Threads: 9
  • Posts: 2263
Joined: Jun 13, 2014
May 29th, 2016 at 2:28:12 AM permalink
Quote: bobbartop

I have a reoccurring dream where I am involved in a pot with heavy action and suddenly I look back at my hand and it is total garbage, or there is an extra card. It's a nightmare.

At a poker table once several years ago, I squeezed my cards, and found I had a three of spades, and a three of spades. "Uh, wad? Dealer, please stop the action, call the floor please; no I won't say exactly why out loud across the table, but there could be a teensy little problem about to get bigger and bigger if everybody keeps betting." Not least of which would be how to count my outs!
Suck dope, watch TV, make up stuff, be somebody on the internet.
JyBrd0403
JyBrd0403
  • Threads: 12
  • Posts: 548
Joined: Jan 25, 2010
June 18th, 2016 at 2:01:22 AM permalink
Just play top pair on the flop, if you get 2nd or 3rd pair dump it. That simple. Barring getting a 4 card draw to a flush or straight, etc.

If you have a 2nd or 3rd pair on the flop, and someone else has top pair, you only have a 20%, or so, chance of winning the hand. So, 2nd and 3rd pair are not profitable in the long run. So, if there's no compelling reason to play 2nd or 3rd pair, you should dump it.

If you understand that, then you realize A K Q J have the best chances of flopping top pair, you can adjust your starting hands accordingly.

So, getting a read on an opponent is always helpful, but it's not necessary in hold'em.

Of course, that can't be confirmed if the law of large numbers and the rest of probability math is simply thrown out. Or, if you're getting cheated etc... etc...
frisbee25
frisbee25
  • Threads: 12
  • Posts: 27
Joined: Oct 8, 2014
June 29th, 2016 at 2:31:06 PM permalink
I need to figure out ace high and 2nd pair. Ace King high seems important 9 handed and maybe 2nd pair pocket pairs also. I'm not so sure it's a fold or call down with pocket pairs.
MrGoldenSun
MrGoldenSun
  • Threads: 3
  • Posts: 252
Joined: Apr 1, 2016
July 1st, 2016 at 10:37:35 AM permalink
Quote: frisbee25

I need to figure out ace high and 2nd pair. Ace King high seems important 9 handed



If by "important" you mean "strong preflop," it is. Postflop depends on all sorts of things, like the board, the action, the number of opponents, etc.


Quote:

and maybe 2nd pair pocket pairs also. I'm not so sure it's a fold or call down with pocket pairs.



Again, too general to give a narrow answer. Some things that make one pair more likely to be good: few opponents, not much action, board is unconnected. If there are many opponents, lots of aggression, and a connected board, that's bad.
frisbee25
frisbee25
  • Threads: 12
  • Posts: 27
Joined: Oct 8, 2014
July 5th, 2016 at 3:51:31 PM permalink
So there is no solution to multiplayer like heads up. Lose to a tight player in spots and get bluffed by a loose player it seems
JyBrd0403
JyBrd0403
  • Threads: 12
  • Posts: 548
Joined: Jan 25, 2010
July 23rd, 2016 at 10:48:42 PM permalink
Quote: frisbee25

So there is no solution to multiplayer like heads up. Lose to a tight player in spots and get bluffed by a loose player it seems



If you are playing top pair on the flop, there's no reason to get bluffed in a limit game. Just check call if you're worried. As for losing to a tight player. You should probably be the tightest player there. Only play if you have 2 high cards.

So, starting hands A-9, K-9, Q-9, J-9, 10-9. Pairs of AA, KK, QQ, JJ, 1010. Raise preflop with AA, KK, QQ, A-J, K-J, QJ.

If you noticed you have 2 cards that can possibly flop top pair this way. As oppossed to A-3 where only the A has a chance at top pair.

Top pair has the best chance of winning, and your playing the cards that will get you top pair. That's limit hold'em.
  • Jump to: