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beachbumbabs
beachbumbabs
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July 10th, 2015 at 11:48:28 AM permalink
Quote: sherman

Great game. I play it a lot at the Casino Lac Leamy in Gatineau, PQ. I've been playing for a few weeks and have gotten 3 six card flushes (no straights).

Oddly enough, they don't seem to allow for 2 flushes to be played. On a number of occasions, I've had a small straight flush (3, 4, 5) as well as a higher regular flush (A, K, 6) which of course was a different suit than the small SF. They told me I had to play one or the other - so in each case, I played the small SF as it was guaranteed a payout.

Does that seem right? Does the casino reserve the right to change the rules? I'm guessing they do. Either that or the dealer or pit boss really didn't know the answer so they might have guessed. I think it might have been the latter because they didn't seem really confident on their answer.



Not allowing a straight flush to be played for that sidebet is a significant deviation from the licensed rules in other places I've played it, and one that affects the HE a lot (to the player's detriment) on both the main and sidebets. The game is licensed for play with the understanding that the HE will be a certain amount with optimal strategy, and optimal strategy dictates that there are hands in which both are played. So, I'm guessing this might be an illegal modification to whatever was approved for play by the regulatory authority there. But I don't know anything about Province Quebec or whoever has oversight of that Casino.

Perhaps PaiGowDan will give us a definitive answer on this; he's the one who answered my (same) questions about it last year when he was involved with distributing the game.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
Beachbuzzard
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July 12th, 2015 at 8:17:35 PM permalink
Have now played this game a couple of times at Harrahs AC. It is very popular and I see they now have at least two tables. I was playing one of the tables Friday evening. When I got there the guy to my right had hit for $3000 with a 7-card flush on a $10 bonus bet (300-1). A short time later we heard that the other table had a hit of $16,500 for a player with $15 on each bonus bet and a 6-card straight flush. We saw a few other nice bonus hands at our table in the hundreds of dollars - I had a 4-card straight flush for $5 pay $300 for instance. Then a little later in the evening our table had a big hit - a lady thought she had a 6-card flush and 5-card straight flush with $10 on each bet. So we were congratulating her on the $2000 (100-1 for each bet) she was about to receive - until the dealer flipped the hand and exposed a 6-card straight flush! The hand totaled $11,000 (1000-1 on the 6-card straight flush). It shut the table down for about 15-20 minutes, but it had everyone buzzing. The larger bonus payouts in this game seem more plentiful in this game than any other I've ever played. So long as the casinos profit on it I see this being extremely popular because of the ease of playing, the fun of squeezing and the chance of some nice bonus wins.
Zcore13
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July 12th, 2015 at 8:27:30 PM permalink
There's no doubt the Casino is making money on it. It's all built into the pay table. But it is a fun and pretty fair game and players like holding the 7 cards.

I'm pretty sure it's well over 100 installs. My guess would be close to 200 by the end of the year. That's a winner and the game will definitely be around for a while.


ZCore13
I am an employee of a Casino. Former Table Games Director,, current Pit Supervisor. All the personal opinions I post are my own and do not represent the opinions of the Casino or Tribe that I work for.
RoyalBJ
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July 12th, 2015 at 8:40:34 PM permalink
Is it a Shuffle Master or AGS game?
Zcore13
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July 12th, 2015 at 8:43:53 PM permalink
Quote: RoyalBJ

Is it a Shuffle Master or AGS game?



It's a Galaxy Gaming Game. AGS believes they now have the rights to the game but I'm pretty sure they are going to find out differently in court.


ZCore13
I am an employee of a Casino. Former Table Games Director,, current Pit Supervisor. All the personal opinions I post are my own and do not represent the opinions of the Casino or Tribe that I work for.
CharmedQuark
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July 13th, 2015 at 7:03:01 AM permalink
The HCF game here is licensed by AGS. The pay tables are Flush = 200 - 20 - 10 - 2 and Straight Flush = 500 - 200 - 100 - 50 - 9. Deal is from an automatic shuffler and all seats get dealt a hand. I've played a few times and probably lost more than I've won (dealer seems to get more four and five card flush hands than players). I play $10 flush and $5 straight flush with a $25 ante. I try to gain at least $10 a game when I beat the dealer or no qualify. Most players bet - $5-$10 flush $5-$10 st flush and $5 ante. Like TCP most players usually looking for the bonus money.
beachbumbabs
beachbumbabs
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July 13th, 2015 at 8:00:34 AM permalink
Quote: CharmedQuark

The HCF game here is licensed by AGS. The pay tables are Flush = 200 - 20 - 10 - 2 and Straight Flush = 500 - 200 - 100 - 50 - 9. Deal is from an automatic shuffler and all seats get dealt a hand. I've played a few times and probably lost more than I've won (dealer seems to get more four and five card flush hands than players). I play $10 flush and $5 straight flush with a $25 ante. I try to gain at least $10 a game when I beat the dealer or no qualify. Most players bet - $5-$10 flush $5-$10 st flush and $5 ante. Like TCP most players usually looking for the bonus money.



AGS may not have the right to distribute the game for long, even if they have it now (which is in doubt). It's going to be interesting (the legal side) to say the least. Nice for the game growth, for now, though, that there are 2 distributors pushing it.

They took a lot off the top/middle of both flush and SF paytables to give you 2:1 on a 4 card flush and 9:1 on a 3 card SF. A lot. But that might drive the action on both.

I like playing 5-10-15 on the SF-F-Ante, FWIW. Those paytables would probably change my bet structure some, though.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
MathExtremist
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July 13th, 2015 at 12:28:49 PM permalink
Quote: beachbumbabs

AGS may not have the right to distribute the game for long, even if they have it now (which is in doubt). It's going to be interesting (the legal side) to say the least.


From Galaxy's Q1 2015 SEC filing:
Quote: GLXZ 10-Q dated March 31, 2015

Red Card Gaming & AGS litigation. In September 2012, we executed an asset purchase agreement (“APA”) with Red Card Gaming, Inc. (“RCG”), for the purchase of all the rights, title and interest in and for the game known as High Card Flush and all associated intellectual property. The APA included customary non-compete, non-disparagement and right of first refusal provisions. In 2014, AGS, LLC (“AGS”) purchased RCG’s rights in the APA and became the assignee of the APA. In September 2014 we notified RCG of their material breach of the APA and discontinued contingent consideration payments. In November 2014, RCG and AGS attempted to terminate the APA and in December 2014, filed a complaint against us alleging trademark infringement. We filed a cross-complaint against RCG and AGS alleging conspiracy to breach the APA, misappropriation of our trade secrets, infringement of our trademark and copy rights and interference with customer relationships. As of the date of this Report, there were pending cross motions for preliminary injunctions in which the parties seek to enjoin each other from selling the High Card Flush game. The parties have agreed the substance of the dispute is to be heard in arbitration, which is scheduled for November 2015.


http://ir.galaxygaming.com/

I wish arbitrations were public. I'd fly to Vegas to sit in on that one.
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice." -- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
UCivan
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July 13th, 2015 at 12:36:47 PM permalink
It may depend on who has a higher legal budget.
beachbumbabs
beachbumbabs
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July 13th, 2015 at 1:05:29 PM permalink
Quote: MathExtremist

From Galaxy's Q1 2015 SEC filing:

http://ir.galaxygaming.com/

I wish arbitrations were public. I'd fly to Vegas to sit in on that one.



Me, too. I have the feeling the ruling, no matter how it comes out, is going to be critical and precedent-setting for both you and me, not to mention a few dozen other folks on here.

Do you see a published decision coming out of this? Or is it more likely to be held under some kind of confidentiality ruling?
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
Boz
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July 13th, 2015 at 1:07:51 PM permalink
Also at Carsars AC now.
MathExtremist
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July 13th, 2015 at 1:26:15 PM permalink
Quote: beachbumbabs

Me, too. I have the feeling the ruling, no matter how it comes out, is going to be critical and precedent-setting for both you and me, not to mention a few dozen other folks on here.

Do you see a published decision coming out of this? Or is it more likely to be held under some kind of confidentiality ruling?


Nah, this is a contract dispute, not a patent trial. I don't think any of us will ever know the details; that's part of the point of doing arbitration. I also don't know if there's even a patent on the game method itself -- anyone else know more on that point?

With the ever-present caveat that I am not an attorney: there are a few potential cases working through the system that might set the sort of precedent you're thinking about, but I don't think this one is it.
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice." -- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
UCivan
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July 13th, 2015 at 3:59:09 PM permalink
If you're really interested in the details, you can buy all filing docs from www.pacer.gov. Look for AGS LLC et al v. Galaxy Gaming, Inc.
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