Dice manipulators arrested in Louisiana
[Sorry for all the typos and grammatical errors, this is a direct copy/paste from The Advocate. I guess their spellcheck took the day off]
Trio accused of swindling Baton Rouge casino out of $56K; one arrested at New Orleans airport
KAILEY BROUSSARD Aug 18, 2017 - 11:41 am
Louisiana State Police said they arrested the first in a trio of men accused of cheating a Baton Rouge casino out of nearly $56,000 by manipulating dice in a game of "craps," possibly ending a string of casino thefts around the U.S.
Allan Arana, 35, of Las Vegas was arrested Thursday in the Louis Armstrong New Orleans International Airport after being the state police Gaming Division agents were notified that Arana and three other men were kicked out of the Bell of Baton Rouge Casino on Aug. 9 at 103 France St.
Arana allegedly helped Lim Tan, 42, and Jaime Iglesias, 47, cash out a combined total of $55,855 by sliding the dice instead of throwing them. Tan and Iglesias yielded their turns rolling the dice to Arana, which police say allowed him more opportunities to manipulate the dice. The players were able to bet on points on the game board that increased both their odds of winning and a higher-than-normal payout.
The trio is known as the "Arana Group," according to Arana's affidavit. Louisiana State Police identified the men as people of interest in casino-related theft cases around the U.S.
Police are still searching Tan and Iglesias.
Arana was arrested for "dice fraud" during a "craps" game at Magnolia Bluff Casino Aug. 13 Natchez, Mississippi. He was released from the Adams County Jail Aug. 16, according to a press release. Arana was transported to East Baton Rouge Parish the next day and was booked into the East Baton Rouge Parish jail.
What were all the croupiers and casino staff at the craps table doing while this was going on? Why didn't someone intervene and say "Sir, that was not a legal throw of the dice, it must turn over in the air when thrown." I suspect that some wide-bottomed croupiers are going to be sliding out that casino's door.
Quote: WizardThe Wynn got taken for a lot, I think seven figures, from an Argentinian dice-sliding team.
how the hell did the stickman/boxman allow dice to be slide instead of rolled?!
either one of them should have yelled no roll!
don't understand why they didn't???
Quote: 100xOddshow the hell did the stickman/boxman allow dice to be slide instead of rolled?!
either one of them should have yelled no roll!
don't understand why they didn't???
This is what I don't understand. When the casino accepts the roll, they are saying they'll book action on that specific roll of the dice. How can that be considered cheating? They didn't swap the dice or anything, right?
The second paragraph says he was arrested yesterday (Aug 17) at the New Orleans airport yet the final paragraph states that he was arrested on Aug 13 in MS and transported to East Baton Rouge Parish Prison on Aug 14.
So was he released again and then re-apprehended at the airport 60 miles away?
If you could clarify and give us the true story I'd appreciate it. This stuff fascinates me.
Quote: gamerfreakThis is what I don't understand. When the casino accepts the roll, they are saying they'll book action on that specific roll of the dice. How can that be considered cheating? They didn't swap the dice or anything, right?
How can it be considered cheating if the casino accepts the roll, you ask? Hmmm...
Seems I recall a Baccarat game where the casino was happy during the game to let Ivey and Sun win, Win, WIN, and then -- after the game -- said, "Nope, we won't pay because you musta been cheating."
"Everyone knows" shooters cannot influence the dice, right? So, casinos can allow the throws, since they cross the center line (usually with center bumps to deter sliders, right?), and the throws hit the back wall (right?), and the four casino staff at the table verify each roll meets craps-roll requirements (right?)... and, then -- if the players win, or win too much -- casinos know they can have law enforcement arrest the shooters for "cheating."
IMHO, this seems to be the way casinos work these days, because casinos apparently can get away with claims you must be doing something illegal if you win too much of the casino's money.
So, the answer to your question is: Casinos get to be the "decider." If casinos decide later they made the wrong decision during the game, they can later change their minds and decide "differently," in effect changing what was considered a "fair game correctly played" at the time, and making it "cheating" after the fact.
Quote:He was released from the Adams County Jail Aug. 16, according to a press release. Arana was transported to East Baton Rouge Parish the next day and was booked into the East Baton Rouge Parish jail.
He was transferred (driven) from Adams County in MS to the airport in Jackson 120 miles away so they could then fly him to New Orleans. Which is only another 180 miles away. To be arrested again.
That must be the explanation since it's the most wasteful use of resources imaginable.
I still don't get the advantage play at the "craps" table the author tried to describe.
Quote: LuckyPhow"Everyone knows" shooters cannot influence the dice, right? So, casinos can allow the throws, since they cross the center line (usually with center bumps to deter sliders, right?), and the throws hit the back wall (right?), and the four casino staff at the table verify each roll meets craps-roll requirements (right?)... and, then -- if the players win, or win too much -- casinos know they can have law enforcement arrest the shooters for "cheating."
I see where you're going but you're missing a crucial bit: they did get away with it. $56k just that one time. Surely more than once
After hitting the Belle in Baton Rouge it wasn't until three days later that they were caught 500 miles away at another casino. Who knows how long they've been going. Somebody named them the "Arana Group" at some point so this has been working for some time.
Quote:IMHO, this seems to be the way casinos work these days, because casinos apparently can get away with claims you must be doing something illegal if you win too much of the casino's money.
If by defying mathematical laws of probability then yeah laws are being broken.
Quote: 100xOddshow the hell did the stickman/boxman allow dice to be slide instead of rolled?!
I wasn't there but possibilities include:
1. Someone on the team to distract the dealers. Probably a well-endowed woman in a low cut dress.
2. Very generous tipping.
3. They didn't do this every roll. Craps has a very thin house edge, if played properly, so they could likely afford a lot of legitimate rolls.
I've seen video of dice sliding done well. It is a thing of beauty and might look like a legitimate roll to an amateur.
Quote: WizardI wasn't there but possibilities include:
1. Someone on the team to distract the dealers. Probably a well-endowed woman in a low cut dress.
2. Very generous tipping.
3. They didn't do this every roll. Craps has a very thin house edge, if played properly, so they could likely afford a lot of legitimate rolls.
I've seen video of dice sliding done well. It is a thing of beauty and might look like a legitimate roll to an amateur.
Not that it's likely, but I would add:
4.) Dealer collusion. (Not just tips, but deliberate collusion)
It's not exactly been unheard of in the last few years, even at Craps, but more recent stories have had to do with intentional mispays.
We never read about the results of such lawsuits. I'll look now but don't hold your breath..
2. You don't need to do it every roll. Actually, you're probably much better off not doing it every roll.
Quote: NokTangWe never read about the results of such lawsuits. I'll look now but don't hold your breath..
I think I read the Wynn lost, but I'm not sure. It is up to them to police what is a roll and what isn't.
Quote: WizardQuote: 100xOdds
how the hell did the stickman/boxman allow dice to be slide instead of rolled?!
I wasn't there but possibilities include:
1. Someone on the team to distract the dealers. Probably a well-endowed woman in a low cut dress.
2. Very generous tipping.
3. They didn't do this every roll. Craps has a very thin house edge, if played properly, so they could likely afford a lot of legitimate rolls. I've seen video of dice sliding done well. It is a thing of beauty and might look like a legitimate roll to an amateur.
I found some videos on YouTube:
It seems pretty obvious that these aren't the typical throw. Aside from it being very low and without arc, the dice never come close to the back wall. On the other hand, I was watching the videos already knowing something hinkey was going on. As a player focused on my own action, maybe I wouldn't notice but I doubt it. Whether it makes sense or not (and I freely admit it probably doesn't) I sometimes increase or decrease my bets based on what I think of the throwers style.
But I agree with 100x... how the hell did the dealers miss this, even with the techniques the Wiz lists? I'm wondering if this scam only works at small out-in-the-sticks casinos but is doomed if tried in LV or AC where the dealers are more experienced.
Quote: TumblingBonesI'm wondering if this scam only works at small out-in-the-sticks casinos but is doomed if tried in LV or AC where the dealers are more experienced.
Perhaps more experienced but do they care? With a few exceptions I get the impression many dealers are just going through the motions. It's a "blue collar" job with very limited advancement opportunities.
And that's why what stood out to me was the fact they were passing the dice to the slider. I would think that would be a big Tipoff.Quote: Wizard
3. They didn't do this every roll. Craps has a very thin house edge, if played properly, so they could likely afford a lot of legitimate rolls.
1. The casinos allow the players to throw the dice.
2. Because the casinos allow them to throw the dice, Players are led to believe that they have some kind of control over the outcome via their throw/toss. Attempting to control the throw is every players dream, and this fantasy is sold by the casino to the players. After all, why do they let them throw the dice in the first place???
3. It's the job of the casino to ensure that each throw is a valid one and that the game is being played according to the rules. If a throw didn't meet the standard, then it's the casinos fault, not the player.
4. I hope the players sue the casino and the police for false arrest and being detained.
5. There are some pretty stupid gaming officials as well.
Quote: KeyserThe dice sliders will never be convicted.
1. The casinos allow the players to throw the dice.
2. Because the casinos allow them to throw the dice, Players are led to believe that they have some kind of control over the outcome via their throw/toss. Attempting to control the throw is every players dream, and this fantasy is sold by the casino to the players. After all, why do they let them throw the dice in the first place???
3. It's the job of the casino to ensure that each throw is a valid one and that the game is being played according to the rules. If a throw didn't meet the standard, then it's the casinos fault, not the player.
4. I hope the players sue the casino and the police for false arrest and being detained.
5. There are some pretty stupid gaming officials as well.
I agree.
Surely they have a simple defense: I'm not very good at the game and I thought my throws were ok, because I've been told that invalid throws are rejected by casino operators who are there to supervise. None or very few were, so what did I do wrong? Play the game a bit lamely?
Also, The Belle of Baton Rouge Casino, and management, Marty Brown
General Manager at Tropicana Entertainment Inc. look like they're guilty of "bad faith." I hope the players make an example of them in court.
You stand on your feet all day you deal with loud music noisy drunks and tyrannical floor men. There are new management memos every week and you've no real hope of a steady reliable income.
Along comes a slider... and suddenly dice dealers are supposed to be alert, loyal and turn down bribes.
Hell, they get written up for garbage all the time, they get rotated until they have no idea what day it is or what time it is, they should care about sliders?
While you are at it, how about an upgrade in the employee dining room too.
Dice sliders may be rare but if you pay decent wages, dice sliders will be utterly non existent.
Quote: KeyserThe dice sliders will never be convicted.
1. The casinos allow the players to throw the dice.
2. Because the casinos allow them to throw the dice, Players are led to believe that they have some kind of control over the outcome via their throw/toss. Attempting to control the throw is every players dream, and this fantasy is sold by the casino to the players. After all, why do they let them throw the dice in the first place???
3. It's the job of the casino to ensure that each throw is a valid one and that the game is being played according to the rules. If a throw didn't meet the standard, then it's the casinos fault, not the player.
4. I hope the players sue the casino and the police for false arrest and being detained.
5. There are some pretty stupid gaming officials as well.
What should happen, using logic, and reasoning is one thing.....but what actually happens may unfortunately be something else altogether.
If the crew ever told a shooter after a short-roll something like, "Make sure it hits the back wall next time" or even "no roll, too short", that should be damning evidence the casino will tell a player if his roll is invalid and what's to be expected.
However, this is making your argument from a lack of knowledge and as if you had never really played the game before. If the crew was taking a bribe (which doesn't seem likely to me), the sliders should instantly be found guilty. Or if they were distracting the crew, they should also be found guilty.
I doubt these players were neophytes to the game and I think they'll most likely be found guilty.
If the team got away with that much, either they are very good or the crew was sound asleep.
I remember Benny Binion with his TWO boxes on a table. One was virtually deaf and the other was virtually blind but between them they were a great asset and Benny was not going to force them to retire. Not only did it give him great employee loyalty but no one ever got away with anything at that table.
Dealers and box people were told in no uncertain terms, if one(at least one) of the die fails to hit the back wall, no roll.
It was called on me once and I saw it several other times.
These dealers are paid less than $500.usd a month and get very few tips. In fact, tips are forbidden at at least one casino(Resorts World next to the airport). With that said, the staff were it seemed intelligent and working very hard. I think it is considered a good job there.
I also mentioned in my Manila report that at Resorts World there is a partition(apx six inches high graduating to table height at the the stickman position) across the center which would prevent any dice sliding.
We, which includes me, often don't appreciate how much it sucks in other parts of the world. Take away US News(which recently happened here, no more FOX News) and you get all sorts of stories on the international front on other news(TV). Mud slides in Africa as an example. 400 Million people living in India without running water and electricity.
Quote: AhighDice sliders are people too stupid to play poker and win. They always get caught.
I watched a guy try to slide dice a few times on a table at Caesars many years ago. He wasnt too successful. It was actually comical because he kept betting the hard 8 big on the rolls he obviously was trying to manipulate. He would set the 4 and 4 up and literally just slide the dice. He didnt look too sophisticated at it and his motion awkward... but the worst part about it is that he rolled a 7 out each time he apparently tried to hit the hard 8. Im not sure if the dealers noticed or just didnt say anything, but they didnt make any noise when he 7'd out. Funny night!
