dicesitter
dicesitter
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November 13th, 2013 at 8:46:33 AM permalink
t seems everyday it is harder to play craps if your a dice setter. Now i said setter, that is
different than a person that can actually influence the dice.

But to the casino, it is the dice setter that gets noticed, it does not matter if your good
or terrible, they see you, and were are all lumped together.

I understand there are a lot of tables to play on, but today many casino's are using higher
tables or bouncy tables which are hard to play on and some you cant or atleast i cant
get an avantage on.

Some folks think this is a joke, acting like kids, arguing over nothing, and ganging up on
the table. These things get noticed and affect the players that come after you.

So far tribal casino's have not been to much of a problem, but Vegas today is not
the same as it was 10 years ago. At many it is no longer an enjoyable experience considering
the heat you get and the crews downtown and on the strip spend more time arguing between
themselves than they do paying correctly.

It may well get worse before it gets better, but that will depend on us, how we play the game,
how we respect other players, how we make it easier to accept us by playing faster, playing
more alone or 1-2 guys, or getting to the table seperately so as not to make the pit boss think
a dice class is back in town.

All of us should be careful not to make matters worse, particularly those of us that visit the Vegas
area, so we dont make it worse for the folks that live there.

Dice setting has changed the game forever, i think it is a win for us and the casino, but until
they come to their senses, they can make it hard on us.

dicesetter
Dicenor33
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November 13th, 2013 at 9:25:41 AM permalink
Casinos are fighting for every penny nowadays,I wish they could adapt a different strategy. For example, charge people 3k for stay and visit, it will allow AP to gain profit, which in turn will stimulate the economy.
Sabretom2
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November 13th, 2013 at 9:32:16 AM permalink
Great idea, bump up meal prices, car fare, maybe even landing fees and each AP could have his own private casino.
Dicenor33
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November 13th, 2013 at 9:49:33 AM permalink
It should work the same way as poker tournaments, casino should be a place to win not getting robbed.
Dicenor33
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November 13th, 2013 at 10:07:45 AM permalink
The reason poker sites became so popular, because of real people winning tons of money, depressed dealers, loosing, upset players hardly awakes desire to gamble.
DeMango
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November 13th, 2013 at 10:13:51 AM permalink
Do you try to thwart the thoughts and hijack every thread you occupy? Dice Sitter is once again stirring the pot and starting another DI thread. Pay attention to the agenda.
When a rock is thrown into a pack of dogs, the one that yells the loudest is the one who got hit.
dicesitter
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November 18th, 2013 at 7:05:23 AM permalink
nice try

dicesetter
FleaStiff
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November 18th, 2013 at 7:29:40 AM permalink
Quote: dicesitter

t seems everyday it is harder to play craps if your a dice setter.

Not at all. Just do whatever it is you wish to do with the dice in a prompt manner and you can shoot as you like.
MrV
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November 18th, 2013 at 7:35:22 AM permalink
Why should a casino have a problem with dice setting, so long as the shooter does it very quickly and does not slow the game down?

It seems to me a casino is more likely to be concerned about claims by alleged DI's that they have a true advantage, as trumpeted by mass media authors who claim that "Dice Controllers are Winning Millions From the Casinos."

Casino workers only SEE the dice setting, but they HEAR and READ the wild-eyed claims and act in response.

Apt.
"What, me worry?"
superrick
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November 18th, 2013 at 10:09:18 PM permalink
Quote:


MrV
It seems to me a casino is more likely to be concerned about claims by alleged DI's that they have a true advantage, as trumpeted by mass media authors who claim that "Dice Controllers are Winning Millions F The from the Casinos."

Casino workers only SEE the dice setting, but they HEAR and READ the wild-eyed claims and act in response. /


Anybody that sets the dice only has their selves to blame, because they let the fiction writers get away with what they write, like buying in for $2000 and walking out with a cool haft million, these guys are so proficient at how they write, in a very vague way, they have the so-called DI’s begging for more of their great fiction. The only problem is they never realized that along with everybody that is trying to become a so-called Di, and reading everything these fiction writers put out, you also have the casinos managers reading it too!

They write about how they are shooting, they write about the tables, they just about all shoot from SL1 and SR1, and they wonder why the casinos are giving them a hard time. When they are having a class in Vegas, they take all their students into a casino, then play musical chairs, by switching out shooters in SL1 and SR1. They have their students so convinced that if they bet on a so-called random roller, that they are going to lose, and they have taught them if they bet to use the stupid five count!

So the casinos get fed-up, having players standing around the table and not betting! The fiction writers are always writing about all the mega rolls they have and all the money they are winning, now the funny one is that the world’s greatest fiction writer on the game of craps, no one has ever seen him in a casino, doing what he claims to do, and if you have any common sense at all and you put a time line to what he writes, it’s pretty easy to figure out that it’s all fiction.

Yes, DI’s are a curious bunch of players they all live in La, La land, taking advice from someone that nobody have ever met. They love to complain about what the casinos are doing to their beloved game of craps, but they never think about all the trip reports they write about all the money they are supposedly winning, and what how the casinos are going to react to what they are writing.
I still say one of the greatest pieces of fiction I read was when the writer wrote this one.

http://www.dicesetter.com/mp/dmad15respond.htm

Quote:

My average hand now lasts for 24 throws. Even the biggest idiot at the table should be able to make money off of that roll, and if they don't, it's not my fault. They should go play keno instead.
I am able to shoot that way 19-out-of-20 times when I get the dice. I am always looking for empty or near-empty tables so that I don't have to endure random-rollers. At the same time though, I can honestly say that if someone gets on a "lucky" roll, I'll also be riding their "random" wave to profit.
Sometimes I will have an "off" session where I just can't find my rhythm. Instead of trying to prove to myself that I'm made of cryptonite, I'll take a break and regroup. If I'm tired, or irritated or unfocused, I don't play. I won't play unless I feel fresh, relaxed, energized and focused



You also have to know that this is the same guy that claimed to have an SRR of 28

Damn if I saw this shooter on a table,.. I would follow him around like a little puppy dog! Isn’t fiction great, you can be anything you want to be, and there are always players living in La, La land that are going to believe you!

Now for all you guys that are saying,Superrick, why are you picking of our hero, think about how the casino react to his great fiction, and if you still want to say the about quote isn't fiction, I will gladly pick it apart for you , so maybe some of you so-called DI's can see the light! Sorry guys, I do not play keno, and I do have common sense, and there is no reason for anybody writing fiction about the game of craps!

Note, all my post start with this is just my opinion...!

You do good brada ..!

superrick

Winning comes from knowledge and skill when your betting and not reading fiction!
Note, all my post start with this is just my opinion...! You do good brada ..! superrick Winning comes from knowledge and skill when your betting and not reading fiction http://procraps4u2.myfanforum.org/index.php ...
Tomspur
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November 18th, 2013 at 10:50:33 PM permalink
The dealers are under pressure from the suits to keep the game moving at ALL TIMES. This means that, when players take too long to set the dice then it is their jobs to hurry them up.
The alternative is to stop dice setting alltogether.

Some casinos are more of a problem than others. Someplaces just let it go because they know it will cause more of an issue trying to fight than just letting them set the bloody dice and getting on with it.

My opinion is that there should be a happy medium like with most other things. The dealers should let the players set the dice and also the players should not take the mick out by taking 30 secondes to do so. Set them, pick them up and throw them, finish. Don't give the already miserable dealers another reason to be even more miserable.

Just my 5 cents worth!
“There is something about the outside of a horse that is good for the inside of a man.” - Winston Churchill
dicesitter
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November 19th, 2013 at 6:33:04 AM permalink
Tomspur



That may be true here and there, but in most cases that is an excuse for
putting heat on a DI.

In many cases the di is the fastest person on the table. I know i have been
asked not to play several times and i was faster than others.

Just as an example as to what Superrrick said. This year i was at one casino
and the table was slow i got the dice and had a seven out or close to it and
the pit boss stood there and smiled. I got the dice back and made 2 points in
a row and he leaned over and said you cant throw like that here. He wanted
harder and harder until i just quit.

Next time i was there i picked up the dice and he said no you cant throw
like that here, i never threw a single time.

I talked to the big dog and he said we have thousands of dollars on that table
and i am not going to allow some one that practices to take it all. I would
rather never see a player at the table.

His point was not slow play, it was i guess he may have seen some of the claims
made by writers and was not going to take a chance.....period.

If i owned a casino i would have sign out front saying "DI's welcome" because
the poor ones lose many times more than a good one can win.

The biggest thing here is not allowing large betters to play off your rolls. This spring
we had a big guy start to show up on the nights we played and bet table max across
and he made some serious money 3 weeks in a row. Pit boss started to watch the table
more, so as soon as the big guy came , the two of us that are Di's left.

Now we have good nights and bad and make some money and there is no heat at all.

Casino heat for a good shooter is getting worse, not because they actually lose money
on DI's, but because they think they could lose alot.

dicesetter
superrick
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November 19th, 2013 at 10:20:52 AM permalink
Quote:

dicesetter
Just as an example as to what Superrrick said. This year i was at one casino
and the table was slow i got the dice and had a seven out or close to it and
the pit boss stood there and smiled. I got the dice back and made 2 points in
a row and he leaned over and said you cant throw like that here. He wanted
harder and harder until i just quit.


You could be the best DI the world has ever seen, and the suits would never say a thing, if you were having a bad day and having nothing but PSO’s, it does happen to DI’s on some days!
Quote:

dicesetter
In many cases the di is the fastest person on the table. I know i have been
asked not to play several times and i was faster than others.



You got that 100% right, but the trouble is most players that set the dice are not DI’s and just trying to do what the DI did when they were on a roll. These players do take forever to set the dice, then most times they pick them up and shake them before shooting them. Everybody has to realize that casinos make their money off rolls per hour, not off of losing bets!
Quote:

dicesetter

If i owned a casino i would have sign out front saying "DI's welcome" because
the poor ones lose many times more than a good one can win.



You and I are on the same page on this one, as I have told pit supervisors before, you only look at me when I’m winning, but never look at me when I’m losing!
Quote:

dicesetter
The biggest thing here is not allowing large betters to play off your rolls. This spring
we had a big guy start to show up on the nights we played and bet table max across
and he made some serious money 3 weeks in a row. Pit boss started to watch the table
more, so as soon as the big guy came , the two of us that are Di's left.


I will leave anytime big money hits the table unless, I’m in a high-end casino on the strip and on a roll, I will stay until the roll is over with and leave the table then! I’m not a money making machine you some guy that is going to make thousands off my roll, only to have a casino tell me they no longer want my play because of what just happened on the table!
Quote:

dicesetter
If i owned a casino i would have sign out front saying "DI's welcome" because
the poor ones lose many times more than a good one can win.


This is again 100% true, DI’s cannot win every time they go to the casinos! That only happens in a great fiction writers dreams.
You guys just don’t get it! You want to blame the casinos for what is happening, when the real problem is our great fiction writers, the casinos read these boards, they read the books, and then they do everything they can to stop their perceived threat, and that is anybody that sets the dice!

Depending on where you are playing craps at, there might be one DI on a table, and because they are setting the dice, every eye that works in the craps pit is on them, when they are getting lucky and they are on a roll, if they are losing like everybody else, you never see a suit looking at them.

I always tell suits where were you yesterday when I lost my butt, how come you weren’t looking at me then, I’m just getting lucky like anybody else that ever wins at a craps table, this is after all a negative game we both know that!
Some of our great fiction writers are now saying that they too, lose when playing craps, the only problem is they still write things that you just don’t see happening on the craps tables, they are very good at what they do, and I can see why some very foolish casino personnel would try everything they could to put a stop to the great fiction they are reading, by giving anybody a hard time that sets the dice!

If you want all of the heat to stop, then question all the fiction that you read on these different craps boards, don’t brag, when you have a good day at the craps tables, and yes respect that the casinos are in business to make money, leave when big money hits the table, and one more thing, remind the suit that is working every time you do lose. Then don’t go on any craps board and write that you won all kinds of money, like you do it every time you play craps!
Note, all my post start with this is just my opinion...! You do good brada ..! superrick Winning comes from knowledge and skill when your betting and not reading fiction http://procraps4u2.myfanforum.org/index.php ...
AlanMendelson
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November 19th, 2013 at 7:33:47 PM permalink
I thought this thread was about places to play craps where you don't get heat for setting? I set my dice everywhere I've played (except when it's card craps because then it doesn't matter) and I've only had heat at three places because I was winning. (More on that coming up.)

But basically I've never been bothered with setting because I do it so quickly. Frankly, anyone who knows what they are doing can set the dice in a second or two. I know how to rotate the dice by glancing at them while they are being pushed to me for the next shot.

I've written before that I ran into heat at MGM, Bellagio and NYNY because I was winning... not because I was setting... because the heat didn't come until after I was winning. No one said anything about setting during the first few rolls, or before the first pass was made, or even the second.

I understand that there are casinos that don't let people "set" and I think it's because the setters didn't know what they were doing and took too long.

But honestly, I think the shooters who order a drink while the dice are in their hand, or chant something about what number they want, or yell out "this is what I do" or have their girlfriend kiss the dice, or shooters who throw in late bets do more to delay the game than any dice setter who knows what he is doing.

If any of you have problems with setting go play at Caesars. They don't care if you set the dice.
DeMango
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November 19th, 2013 at 8:37:08 PM permalink
Quote: AlanMendelson


If any of you have problems with setting go play at Caesars. They don't care if you set the dice.



Same goes for us down south. Some cheesehead players should not project their problems on the rest of us. Learn to set em, pick em and flick em.
When a rock is thrown into a pack of dogs, the one that yells the loudest is the one who got hit.
Tomspur
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November 19th, 2013 at 10:02:12 PM permalink
Again, as with card counting, this whole thing comes down to the casino and their idea of a perceived threat. They don't know enough about the threat but they know that "Bill Zender or Willy Allison" said it was dangerous so we had better listen.

I'm in the business myself and I find it cringeworthy how many people running casinos today have no clue about why certain procedures are enacted and why certain scams should not be allowed.

They are so afraid that they may not hit their targets or percentages of their targets so they can get their incentive bonusses that they lose sight of the important factors of running a casino.

Rant over............
“There is something about the outside of a horse that is good for the inside of a man.” - Winston Churchill
superrick
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November 20th, 2013 at 9:58:52 AM permalink
Quote:

AlanMendelson
I thought this thread was about places to play craps where you don't get heat for setting? I set my dice everywhere I've played (except when it's card craps because then it doesn't matter) and I've only had heat at three places because I was winning. (More on that coming up.)


Yes, Alan it is about places you you don’t get heat, but think about this, now the guys that run the casino where you can go and have a good game of craps, may read this board, and the next time you go there, guess what you are now getting heat!
You spelled out what happens to anybody that sets the dice even in the high end strip casinos, like the places you play at. As soon as you start winning, you start to get heat or even the dice taking away from you, so you can’t shoot any more. You could be the biggest loser there ever was, but if your now getting lucky and setting the dice they start giving you heat!
Quote:

AlanMendelson
I've written before that I ran into heat at MGM, Bellagio and NYNY because I was winning... not because I was setting... because the heat didn't come until after I was winning. No one said anything about setting during the first few rolls, or before the first pass was made, or even the second.


Did you read what you wrote, nothing was happening until you started winning, now why was that?
Could it be because of everything the casinos read on the So-called DI’s, the great fiction writers makes it sound like everybody that sets they dice are going to take the casinos for hundreds of thousands of dollars, if not millions!
Quote:

AlanMendelson

If any of you have problems with setting go play at Caesars. They don't care if you set the dice.


Alan, I hate to tell you this but the same thing happens there too! Maybe you have been lucky and had a good grew, they do have some of the best dealers on the strip, but all it takes is one bad one to get it going, or a suit that came from a different casino!
Quote:

DeMango
Same goes for us down south. Some cheesehead players should not project their problems on the rest of us. Learn to set em, pick em and flick em.


Yes you are one of the lucky ones you get to play craps where cool heads prevail, they know that if you win one day you will give it back the next day for most players, and if there is a winning table they will get it all back anyway and then some! I always say that after I leave the table anybody that won money are going to lose it and keep digging into their pocket thinking they can do the same thing. They don’t know that the table just got hot and now it’s correcting it’s self!

I would always stop into one of the casinos over in Mesquite on the way back from Utah, one day I got heat in there and ask the suit that I knew what happened, he goes on to tell me that they had a new table games manager, so I asked where he had come from, and was told SP in Vegas. I told him to start looking for a different job, because that guy was going to run off all of their locals, and without them the casino couldn’t make it. The Oasis Casino is now just a pile of rubble somewhere, they tore it down and now is just a vacant lot! You never know when one of these table games managers may show up on your door steps to your favorite casino!
Note, all my post start with this is just my opinion...! You do good brada ..! superrick Winning comes from knowledge and skill when your betting and not reading fiction http://procraps4u2.myfanforum.org/index.php ...
Bohemian
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November 20th, 2013 at 5:27:21 PM permalink
Quote: Tomspur

Again, as with card counting, this whole thing comes down to the casino and their idea of a perceived threat. They don't know enough about the threat but they know that "Bill Zender or Willy Allison" said it was dangerous so we had better listen.

I'm in the business myself and I find it cringeworthy how many people running casinos today have no clue about why certain procedures are enacted and why certain scams should not be allowed.

They are so afraid that they may not hit their targets or percentages of their targets so they can get their incentive bonusses that they lose sight of the important factors of running a casino.

Rant over............



Tomspur, well said! (Although Bill Zender agrees with you 100%.)

Casino Heat has nothing to do with time to set and who ever says it does is just showing their ignorance about Dice Influencing and casino operations.
MrV
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November 20th, 2013 at 6:09:24 PM permalink
"I set my dice everywhere I've played (except when it's card craps because then it doesn't matter)"

Alan, it doesn't matter at ANY casino.

Superstitious affectation, is all.
"What, me worry?"
Bohemian
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November 20th, 2013 at 9:55:44 PM permalink
Quote: MrV

"I set my dice everywhere I've played (except when it's card craps because then it doesn't matter)"

Alan, it doesn't matter at ANY casino.

Superstitious affectation, is all.



MrV, Not so fast my friend, your opinion is not the final verdict as Dice Setting does matter, unless you are superstitious that the House edge will win no matter what.
NokTang
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November 22nd, 2013 at 1:17:25 AM permalink
Quote: AlanMendelson


I've written before that I ran into heat at MGM, Bellagio and NYNY because I was winning... not because I was setting... because the heat didn't come until after I was winning. No one said anything about setting during the first few rolls, or before the first pass was made, or even the second.



That's what you guys are calling "heat"? Heat to me would be being warned that an arrest was pending for cheating, not a threat to take away the dice from a hot shooter.

Please at least post what sort of money you were winning? I thought at least MGM and Bellagio go some high rollers?

We should also be reminded at this point that Wynn is suing some foreigners for dice sliding and losing some 700,000.usd. One or more stories indicate the gang also hit other casinos.

Being a "suit" must be a tough job with all this cheating via dice setting and "dice influencing" going on. I'd always thought their main function was to make sure the dealers didn't cheat and/or steal?
Tomspur
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November 22nd, 2013 at 4:53:59 AM permalink
Being a "suit" must be a tough job with all this cheating via dice setting and "dice influencing" going on. I'd always thought their main function was to make sure the dealers didn't cheat and/or steal?



Not to be mean but just to let you know that there is a big difference between dice setting/dice influencing and dice sliding....

setting/influencing is certainly not cheating whereas dice sliding is cheating.

Beeeeeegggggg difference ;)
“There is something about the outside of a horse that is good for the inside of a man.” - Winston Churchill
AlanMendelson
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November 22nd, 2013 at 10:56:58 AM permalink
Quote: NokTang


Please at least post what sort of money you were winning? I thought at least MGM and Bellagio go some high rollers?



The amount of money varied and this is interesting because I think it shows that the amount of money doesn't impact their decision when it comes to giving heat to someone they believe is an advantage player or influencing the dice.

At MGM it was a $10 table, but the table was jammed with every spot filled. I took away close to five thousand and I started with $52 across. Not everyone pressed like I did but you can imagine ten players or more each walking away with two or three thousand each at a $10 table would cause a stir.

At NYNY it was also a $10 table. They took the dice away from me after only a few passes. Big money was not involved.

At MGM it was a $25 table, and when I ran into trouble with the crew... and the argument between the table crew and the floor person (who took my side and said "pay those bets) took place... I was the only one at the table and my wins with that table crew were less than two thousand. Ironically, before that crew came to the table I was down about three thousand with the previous table crew.

The point is, the money is a secondary issue. If a crew wants to give you heat it doesn't matter how much money is involved. Remember: it's not the crew's money. They think they are protecting the casino's money so it doesn't matter if you are betting $3 or $30,000. Game protection is part of their job training, so they will bring heat on someone betting $5 just as they would a high roller.
AlanMendelson
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November 22nd, 2013 at 10:59:51 AM permalink
Quote: Tomspur

Not to be mean but just to let you know that there is a big difference between dice setting/dice influencing and dice sliding....

setting/influencing is certainly not cheating whereas dice sliding is cheating.

Beeeeeegggggg difference ;)



Of course, but try to tell that to a crew that says "no dice setting here" or "you must pick em up and throw em."
NokTang
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November 22nd, 2013 at 11:34:52 PM permalink
Quote: Tomspur


Not to be mean but just to let you know that there is a big difference between dice setting/dice influencing and dice sliding....

setting/influencing is certainly not cheating whereas dice sliding is cheating.

Beeeeeegggggg difference ;)



There are some who argue dice sliding isn't cheating. I'll leave that to the courts. However, any attempt to fleece a casino would be considered cheating by most people. People with the ability to set and influence how the wager is resolved is considered a cheater by most reasonable people. Don't let people touch the dice if you, the casino industry, are worried about it. Make them toss the dice out of a cup or simply have a launching machine they press a "throw" button on or an elevated ramp they must come down tumbling etc..
NokTang
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November 22nd, 2013 at 11:40:05 PM permalink
Quote: AlanMendelson

you can imagine ten players or more each walking away with two or three thousand each at a $10 table would cause a stir.
.



The fact it was a "$10.usd" table really doesn't matter. Interesting how the past is much like the present. I saw a table and roll at the Four Queens many years ago get so hot and go so long the "suits" were not only stirring but actually pissed off. At the time they wore Hawaiian shirts for some reason but when I asked about the small dice I felt like they guy would rather shoot me dead than discuss it. They had just lost at least $50,000.usd and acted like it was their own money and they were now broke.
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