Craps Players that only bet on themselves...

Rarely, I see players that only bet on themselves on a Craps table. They are very patient and just stand there and wait until they get the dice back.

Does anyone on the forum see or do this?

More importantly, what advice would you give someone who wants to only bet on themselves but can't find an empty table?

How do you stay patient without spending a majority of your bankroll waiting for the dice to be passed back to you?

Quote: CrapsForever

Rarely, I see players that only bet on themselves on a Craps table. They are very patient and just stand there and wait until they get the dice back.

Does anyone on the forum see or do this?

I saw something similar at the Fremont. A woman would bet the don't on other shooters, but the pass on herself.

Quote:

How do you stay patient without spending a majority of your bankroll waiting for the dice to be passed back to you?

I've heard of dice controllers (setters? diviners? manipulators?) who do this. I still don't believe dice control works, but you might want to track how such players do when they roll the dice.

Quote: Nareed

I saw something similar at the Fremont. A woman would bet the don't on other shooters, but the pass on herself..

I'm trying to learn not to bet at all. Once I make one bet, the flood gates open up and I start making bets all over the place. It's a major weakness of mine.

Quote: Nareed

I've heard of dice controllers (setters? diviners? manipulators?) who do this. I still don't believe dice control works, but you might want to track how such players do when they roll the dice..

People that I have seen that have consistent great luck with the Dice are on another level altogether with their patience. If I got to play craps on a regular basis; I probably would be a lot more patient. I play Craps infrequently so I go "crazy" with bets trying to maximize my Craps time but it severely minimizes my bankroll capabilities...need to figure out a way not to overbet on everybody..happens way too often...

I read somewhere you should never bet more than 1%-2% of your bankroll session on one person. So that would mean betting just $5 - $10 on each person from a $500 session bankroll. That sounds painful....

I've not seen it happen but might very well not notice it since I really don't pay attention to what is going on around me (too dumb to notice). I guess it would be okay in a non-crowded casino to only make a few bets and to limit those bets to those you can blame only upon yourself. Maybe its a limited bankroll situation or limited knowledge/courage situation?

Quote: CrapsForever

I'm trying to learn not to bet at all. Once I make one bet, the flood gates open up and I start making bets all over the place. It's a major weakness of mine.

I typically makes the same bets on myself that I do on other shooters. Usually this means either a pass line bet and on to three come bets (all with odds), or one pass line bet with odds and placing the 6 and 8. I may risk placing other numbers, pressing the 6 and 8, or making more come bets if I think I'm in a hot streak. Sometimes I'm even right.

If I knew I could throw the dice consistently "hot," I'd bet only on myself, too. I can find endless supplies of patience where money is involved :) Of course, it would help to get to empty tables early int he mroning. but even that's not so certain. On my last day, I found the $3 table at Fremont half-full at 6:30 am.

Sounds like the key is finding a near empty table early in the morning.

I don't like playing just by myself...after a couple of PSO's...I prefer to not touch the dice the rest of the day. A half empty table where we are all on the same half side of the table would be ideal. I'll focus on only playing in the morning...should help with not being overcrowded...which should in turn stop me from overbetting on an entire table.

Thanks for the feedback!

Wow. You're a man of many contradictions.

For all the rules you proposed, you seem like a very experienced player.

But your questions about presses, and patience, and your comment about having bets all over the place make me say "Whoa!"



For what it's worth, I hardly ever make a pass line bet if I'm not shooting. I typically bet $24 per person: $12 placed on 6 and 8. If I feel particularly good, perhaps because they had a prior good roll, I'll add $10 each for 5 and 9. Otherwise, I might add the 5 and 9 if the the shooter made his point and hit 6 or 8 a few times.

When anything hits, I'll take the money the first time. After that, I bump it and it's partner both a unit. (I.E. Press 6 and 8 together. Press 5 and 9 together.) Eventually, bump them 2 units. I continue to bump both until I get to certain 'fun' points.

Fun points are when the 6 and 8 are $42, or the 5 and 9 are $35. When they hit, they pay $49. There's something sexy and fun about dropping a white and picking up two greens. The next fun points are 6 and 8 at $60 or 5 and 9 at $50. They pay $70. Drop a red, pick up three greens. Sexy. Unfortunately, I rarely get to that second fun point. But, for the record, the next point is 6 and 8 for $84 or 5 and 9 for $70. Pays $98. Drop two whites, pick up a black.

I typically stay at a fun point for two hits.



My brother has a different plan. He bets $10 on 5 and 9. If it hits, it pays $14. Drop a white and press it fully to $25. When it hits again, it pays $35. He takes $25 and presses to $35. Note he is doing this individually, but it gets him to a fun point quickly.

i frequently will only bet on myself, or very nearly so.
especially on a cold table.
it isn't that hard to manage off-hours when the table isn't full.
i just take my turn, seven-out, leave a chip in the rail and ask them to hold my spot.
then go for a walk on the beach or go play 3card, pai gow, pai gow poker, or baccarat nearby.
i periodically check on the craps table between hands or even skip a hand to watch the table a little.
then when the dice are coming back around, i get back on the rail and wait for my turn.
i get to play craps, as well as take a break and sit while playing my other games of choice.
i don't get bored, i don't get tired, i don't lose on cold shooters.
most of my turns exceed fifteen rolls so i can usually get a neighbor to make sure they hold my spot.

Quote: CrapsForever

Sounds like the key is finding a near empty table early in the morning!

There are lots of advantages to playing early in the morning.

Sometimes I see people still there from the night before when I left that table.

Sometimes the crew is tired and about to go home and sometimes its a newly opened table with, I assume, a fresh crew who simply are in no rush yet because after all, its a day shift gig and the "real" toke-money comes from the night or graveyard shifts. These are often good capable dicemen who simply are working days and know things will likely be slower for that shift.

Banter is more common on the day shift, interaction with female passers-by is more common on the day shift, individual attention can be more common simply because its a relaxed and uncrowded table.

But remember,,, if you are standing there ONLY betting when its YOUR turn to be the shooter, that will be taken into account when it comes to figuring out COMPS. I once had some sniviling, slimey sharp-featured Floorman come out from the pit of some Sweat The Money Joint and tell me I had to keep betting when all I had done was pause for a short time to mentally replay a few rolls since I suddenly thought I had been cheated on one roll and didn't realize it. It was not a particularly crowded table and it was early in the morning but it was their only table that was open at the time. (That was the same joint that when I asked about shuttles to another casino, an employee actually said to me "We are not going to help you get to a different casino"). Needless to say, I don't play there any more.

CF,
I think your problem is you live in Florida...and there's virtually NO place for you to play craps (as much as you want to play it, lol)
For me, when I go, I have patience, because I know there is always next weekend...
I usually JUST bet minimum pass with max odds (3-4-5x), however when it's a bigger odds table, I'll bet $5 with $20 odds on anything

Quote: DJTeddyBear

For all the rules you proposed, you seem like a very experienced player.

But your questions about presses, and patience, and your comment about having bets all over the place make me say "Whoa!"

I have been playing Craps for 12 years. It's my favorite game in the world. I consider myself "very experienced" playing Craps and I am very in tune on how to bet when I am shooting the dice based on my history. The times that I have done extremely well in Craps is when I have other people pressing my bets with my bankroll while I was shooting. I find it very difficult to concentrate on anything else when I am the shooter.

When I bet on anyone else...I usually have too many bets all over the place but I am still too passive in pressing my bets up. The ironic thing is I am very aggressive playing NL Texas Hold'em. I have no issues betting $200 on a flush draw...on the River....as bad a play as that is. I am really good in Chess and I have great patience playing it. For some reason, on a Craps table... I have ADHD. I overbet on too many numbers...horizontally...not vertically. It's smarter to have $180 bet on 2 numbers (6,8) than to bet $160 across all numbers but I still struggle with that even though I know better.

I have 3 MAJOR weaknesses that I have been struggling with in Craps since I started playing back in 1999:

1) Ridiculously Passive when the table is "Hot"
2) Over betting on everyone
3) Not being patient

If I can figure out those three things out and apply them on the tables in Casinos consistently..I would be a much better Craps Player.

Quote: DJTeddyBear

For what it's worth, I hardly ever make a pass line bet if I'm not shooting. I typically bet $24 per person: $12 placed on 6 and 8. If I feel particularly good, perhaps because they had a prior good roll, I'll add $10 each for 5 and 9. Otherwise, I might add the 5 and 9 if the the shooter made his point and hit 6 or 8 a few times.!

Good Advice!

I see a lot of people betting like this..lately I have seen a lot of crazy streaks of dice shooters hitting the same numbers consecutively (5+). Each time it has not been the 6 or 8. This is based on my past 6 Craps Sessions (Small Sample Size)

I notice I usually bet the Pass Line on a Shooter. I usually bet the "Sister point" also so if the Point is 6, I'll also bet the 8 but if the 5 starts hitting like crazy.. I will also bet the 5 and the sister point (9) so now I have 4 bets...

Pass Line (6), 2x Odds = $10 Pass Line, $20 Odds = $30
Sister Point (8) = $12
"Hot" Number (5) = $10
"Hot" Sister Number (9) = $10

Total = $62

So on a $10 table with a $500 bankroll session...I have $62 bet on this shooter which is 12.4% of my session bankroll which is absolute lunacy and a quick path to Ruin! This is exactly what happens almost every session on a $10 Table. So back to DJTeddyBear's scenario of betting $24 on the 6 & 8; if the 5 is repeating...do you

A) Place the (5) for $10.
B) Move one of your Place 6 or 8 to the (5)
C) Wait patiently until the point is hit or one of your Place 6 & 8 hit
D) Other

Quote: DJTeddyBear

My brother has a different plan. He bets $10 on 5 and 9. If it hits, it pays $14. Drop a white and press it fully to $25. When it hits again, it pays $35. He takes $25 and presses to $35. Note he is doing this individually, but it gets him to a fun point quickly.

Use this "strategy" if you are a regular at Bethlehem Sands, I only played there for 14 hours over the past weekend but I have never seen so many 5's and 9's hit consecutively by multiple shooters in my entire life! A couple of regular Craps players also told me, this was the "norm" at this specific Casino.

Quote: DJTeddyBear

For what it's worth, I hardly ever make a pass line bet if I'm not shooting.

There's something I see quite a bit. People who don't bet on the pass line unless they're shooting (but they'll continue to make their usual place bets and center bets). I also see most don't players opting to only play the don't come and ignore the don't pass. It's like everyone's allergic to making a line bet or something!

Quote: CrapsForever

I find it very difficult to concentrate on anything else when I am the shooter.

Same here. The trick is to not let the Stickman hurry you or create any sense of being rushed. You are the shooter, without you no one will either make or lose any money. Don't let the fact that the stickman has pushed the dice out to you hurry you in any way. Force your mind to slow down and do just what you would do if someone else were shooting.

Quote: WongBo

i frequently will only bet on myself, or very nearly so.
especially on a cold table.
it isn't that hard to manage off-hours when the table isn't full.
i just take my turn, seven-out, leave a chip in the rail and ask them to hold my spot.
then go for a walk on the beach or go play 3card, pai gow, pai gow poker, or baccarat nearby.
i periodically check on the craps table between hands or even skip a hand to watch the table a little.
then when the dice are coming back around, i get back on the rail and wait for my turn.
i get to play craps, as well as take a break and sit while playing my other games of choice.
i don't get bored, i don't get tired, i don't lose on cold shooters.
most of my turns exceed fifteen rolls so i can usually get a neighbor to make sure they hold my spot.

I tried the "hold my spot" with a $1 Chip and walk around a few times but a lot of times when I come back to the Craps table....I've been told I can't shoot the dice because I wasn't actively playing on the table before my roll. When I try to play other casino games to "waste" time; a lot of times the Pit Boss will find me and give me back my $1 "Save Chip Spot" and say "you can't play two games at the same time".

Quote: Nareed

I saw something similar at the Fremont. A woman would bet the don't on other shooters, but the pass on herself.

That is usually what I do. Changing sides doesn't seem to fool anybody, however, as nobody will bet along with me until I hit a few points, assuming I do.

Quote: Wizard

That is usually what I do. Changing sides doesn't seem to fool anybody, however, as nobody will bet along with me until I hit a few points, assuming I do.

Based on my most recent sessions, I've decided to pick one side and stick to it.

Last one, here's what hapepned: the first four shooters all established four as the point, then sevened out soo after. So I switched to the don't, and the next shooter makes the next three points (5, 10 and 6). <sigh>

The thing is I don't mind a losing session becasue I know that losing is the expected result. But I do mind losing after I've switched sides. It makes me feel I'm betting on the past results, and that's stupid and superstitious. Actually, I am betting on past results...

Quote: Nareed

I saw something similar at the Fremont. A woman would bet the don't on other shooters, but the pass on herself.

Good observation.
The woman I see play, may be the same lady, this way at the Freemont is a white haired older lady, never talks, that always sits down close to 3rd base dealer, tracks the game in a small notebook and makes one don't pass bet per shooter. I have never seen her roll the dice. Freemont always has a $3 table open. I have seen her on both the $3 and $5 table.

Quote: 7craps

The woman I see play, may be the same lady, this way at the Freemont is a white haired older lady, never talks, that always sits down close to 3rd base dealer, tracks the game in a small notebook and makes one don't pass bet per shooter. I have never seen her roll the dice. Freemont always has a $3 table open. I have seen her on both the $3 and $5 table.

Not the same woman. The one I saw was in early midle-age, and she did talk a lot to the man she was playing with, directing him how to bet and so on. I noticed her msotly ebacsue "don't" bets are rather rare on most tables. When I saw one, I looked around to see who was making it.

Quote: Nareed

Based on my most recent sessions, I've decided to pick one side and stick to it.

Last one, here's what hapepned: the first four shooters all established four as the point, then sevened out soo after. So I switched to the don't, and the next shooter makes the next three points (5, 10 and 6). <sigh>

The thing is I don't mind a losing session becasue I know that losing is the expected result. But I do mind losing after I've switched sides. It makes me feel I'm betting on the past results, and that's stupid and superstitious. Actually, I am betting on past results...

I don't blame you. Switching Sides is a recipe for disaster!

I decided to bet on the "trends" my last session (Saturday Night/Sunday Morning) because only 4 total points were hit on my friday session in 2 hours. Well, the Craps Gods HATE me; I lost my first 3 Lay Bets...and through the next 12 hours...I had an additional 12 Lay Bets (15 Total) that did not hit not ONCE.

Either they came down on a buckshot (Right Back) or the player would go on a long roll...(making me scared) so I'll pick up the "Lay Bet" then a roll or two later (SEVEN). I truly wish I was joking. I need a Camera Crew to film my Craps Sessions...Craps Anomalies happen in each of my sessions; it would be enlightening Reality TV! I have a witness (Parlay) but we need an independent forum member to confirm the Absurdities that occur every session.

The worst is when players hit every number you don't have so I am chasing a number as it hits...Placing the 6 & 8, 4, 5, 9, 10..once I'm loaded up...the next roll is a HORN, then SEVEN!!! Happens a few times EVERY Craps session...Makes you wonder if there is something mysterious at work.....I digress...

I don't want to bet on anybody else but myself anymore...I can't take the PAIN!

Quote: CrapsForever

Rarely, I see players that only bet on themselves on a Craps table. They are very patient and just stand there and wait until they get the dice back.

Does anyone on the forum see or do this?

More importantly, what advice would you give someone who wants to only bet on themselves but can't find an empty table?

How do you stay patient without spending a majority of your bankroll waiting for the dice to be passed back to you?

I'm exactly the opposite. I avoid the dice like the plague. I just look at the dice and it sevens out. I actually stand back from the table so not to jinx the shooter. Kinda ironic since I have a patent on a craps game variation that expands on the place bets.

What I find is the most clueless players are the hottest rollers. Some dude's girlfriend who looks like she never picked up dice before... load up the table.

Quote: CrapsForever

I tried the "hold my spot" with a $1 Chip and walk around a few times but a lot of times when I come back to the Craps table....I've been told I can't shoot the dice because I wasn't actively playing on the table before my roll. When I try to play other casino games to "waste" time; a lot of times the Pit Boss will find me and give me back my $1 "Save Chip Spot" and say "you can't play two games at the same time".

well, i don't know where you play but everywhere i play,
they either know my pattern and tolerate it,
or they can't be bothered to chase me down.
as long as nobody asks for the spot.
as far as them trying to pass your turn:
occasionally they will want a line bet on the shooter before you shoot.
most times: i just throw down a two way hard bet on the shooter before me.
its like chum for the sharks.
they love george.
at the tables, its always
"the summer of george!"

Quote: GameBoy

What I find is the most clueless players are the hottest rollers. Some dude's girlfriend who looks like she never picked up dice before... load up the table.

SO TRUE!!!

I was on a Casino Boat in Florida a few weeks back...Nobody could make a single point to save their lives (including me)...(Why we did not bet the Don't Pass, I'll never understand) After 2 hours, both Craps table are completely empty.

Old man (80ish) steps up and has his Home Health Aide (40ish Hispanic Lady) pick up the Dice and throw it for the first time in her life...She goes on a nice 30- 40 minute Roll. Hit about 5 points and hitting PLACE #'s all day. There were only 4 players on the table...we all came over after seeing her roll for a while..Pace was fast...no center bets! She has no idea what she is doing, he is betting with his own money...she's just winging the dice...asking "Am I doing good"?. After her roll ends...I make about $300 on her roll...If I was BOLD and pressed my Bets/Pass Line/Odds.... I should have made at least $2,000 on her roll. I tossed her $10...she was happy.

Yet again, I passed the Dice and BEGGED the entire table to pass the dice back to her, they didn't (What's wrong with making $$$$???)...table returned COLD...the old man colored up (About $700 profit on her roll) and the lady left to play the Slot Machines! I lost all the $$$ right back betting on everybody else including myself.......one day I'll learn...hopefully.

Quote: WongBo

well, i don't know where you play but everywhere i play,
they either know my pattern and tolerate it.

That's the problem...my home casino is a "Casino Boat" which I don't like playing on...
When I visit land based casinos..I am a "stranger" so I don't get the preferential treatment a regular might get..

Quote: CrapsForever

Yet again, I passed the Dice and BEGGED the entire table to pass the dice back to her, they didn't (What's wrong with making $$$$???)...table returned COLD...the old man colored up (About $700 profit on her roll) and the lady left to play the Slot Machines! I lost all the $$$ right back betting on everybody else including myself.......one day I'll learn...hopefully.

This is where patience comes in. If I've identified a hot shooter, I'll just relax and sip my double Johnny Walker Red till the dice makes its way back to her/him. It's tough to do sometimes, but it usually pays off since hot shooters usually have at least a couple of good rolls in them.

Quote: CrapsForever

So back to DJTeddyBear's scenario of betting $24 on the 6 & 8; if the 5 is repeating...do you

A) Place the (5) for $10.
B) Move one of your Place 6 or 8 to the (5)
C) Wait patiently until the point is hit or one of your Place 6 & 8 hit
D) Other

Sigh, I was afraid you'd ask that.

Unfortunately, the answer is superstition locks me into inaction.

I.E. I keep fiddling with my chips, like I'm ready to place them, but a voice in my head says, "You make that bet and that's the end of that streak...."

Funny that the voice never says that the shooter will seven out....

Therefore, option C.

Quote: FourFiveFace

There's something I see quite a bit. People who don't bet on the pass line unless they're shooting (but they'll continue to make their usual place bets and center bets). I also see most don't players opting to only play the don't come and ignore the don't pass. It's like everyone's allergic to making a line bet or something!

It's not an alergy, per se, but a desire to avoid putting money on numbers that they'd rather not bet, as well as bankroll manangement in regards to odds.

I.E. If I put $10 on the line and the point is a 6, how much odds do I put down? I'd rather just place the 6 for $12.

On that note, it amazes me the number of players that don't put money on the line, but will bet inside, outside, across, whatever, but not place the point. Why not? It's so common that if I'm going inside, I will either say "including the point" or "5,6,8,9."

Quote: GameBoy

This is where patience comes in. If I've identified a hot shooter, I'll just relax and sip my double Johnny Walker Red till the dice makes its way back to her/him. It's tough to do sometimes, but it usually pays off since hot shooters usually have at least a couple of good rolls in them.

This is the truth right here!

I am going to learn this (Patience) in Craps if it kills me. I leave too much money on the table by being impatient....

I did such a good job identifying the "hot" shooters past few sessions but I was never patient enough just to wait out until their next roll and capitalize fully on them. I kept on making money on their rolls ($300 - $500) *betting passively* and losing most of it by the time they got the Dice back....build up the bankroll again..then lose it all....then when the "hot shooter" eventually cools off...I am F*cked!

My last session; I was the most consistent shooter. Not "hot" but very consistent. I should have just bet on myself...there was no consistent hot shooter all session...table was so freaking "choppy" and PACKED!!! Should have left and played...NL Texas Hold'em...

Quote: CrapsForever

...Yet again, I passed the Dice and BEGGED the entire table to pass the dice back to her, they didn't (What's wrong with making $$$$???)....

What you gotta do is ask the table if they'll pass it around BEFORE you pass it.

I've seen it happen (sonewhere in AC) where once the table agreed, the stick then said that according to the rules, he still has to ask everyone in turn. If anyone doesn't play along, that person gets them and tough nuts to the people who passed. Everyone understood.

Luckily, everyone was honorable, and the shooter got the dice back, and we all made a ton of money.

We passed them again, but the fire was out. He hit made one pass and two numbers, so it wasn't a total loss.

Quote: DJTeddyBear

I.E. I keep fiddling with my chips, like I'm ready to place them, but a voice in my head says, "You make that bet and that's the end of that streak.....

PURISTS, PLEASE Do not read the following paragraph....

Don't jump on me for being "superstitious" but that voice in your head is usually right. I can't tell you how many GREAT rolls I have ended by jumping on the hot number. A good plan of action when you see a "hot" number repeating and you don't want to "jinx" it is by placing ONE Come Bet and placing Odds after it hits..then Place the number after your Come Bet comes down. Do not throw chips and place the number directly!

This is also the only course of action you should do if you MUST join a table while the Puck is ON! One Come Bet with Chips...no cash!

I know this is really going to sound crazy but after playing Craps for 12 years I have noticed...Come Bets don't "jinx" hot numbers/hot rolls..just make sure your Come Bet is not in the path of the shooter's throw. This is so huge...but most don't realize it affects how shooters toss the dice when they have to now avoid chips.

EDIT: This is what works for me...everybody is different!

CF,
i appreciate your obsession for craps, as i was once equally obsessed.
i have learned though that the variables in the game defy explanation or consistency.
what is true for one shooter, is not true for the next.
what happens on one turn may or may not be repeated on the next turn.
a number or a table or a shooter is hot, until they aren't.
a number or a table or a shooter is cold, until they aren't.
there is no prediction, no rule, no superstition, nothing that can overcome this.
i think it is great that you have a deep respect for the etiquette of the game,
i also think you should do whatever you can to develop or adopt a betting strategy that minimizes edge and leaves you ahead.
but beyond that, you are wasting your time trying to nail down rules of how the dice are going to be affected.
things you have noticed are most likely no more or less likely than the things you have not noticed.
i think it is great that you share your opinions and observations, and hope you will continue,
but don't knock yourself out trying to ascribe patterns to a completely patternless, random game.
it aint worth it!

Quote: Nareed

I saw something similar at the Fremont. A woman would bet the don't on other shooters, but the pass on herself.

This is the way I normally bet. Mainly because when I'm shooting, I make a pass line bet for the crew alongside my own. What is most fun is when people are upset with me for betting "against them" during their rolls, so that when it's my roll, they bet the Don't. I find it humorous.

Back to the OP, I have a question. If, at a full craps table, there is a player who is only betting on his rolls, and just standing there the rest of the time, is it inconsiderate to ask the box/pit/stick/dealer/whoever that you would like to have that spot?

Quote: konceptum

Back to the OP, I have a question. If, at a full craps table, there is a player who is only betting on his rolls, and just standing there the rest of the time, is it inconsiderate to ask the box/pit/stick/dealer/whoever that you would like to have that spot?

Not at all..some people only feel comfortable shooting from certain positions. If the player is not shooting/betting....you should be allowed that spot until they are ready to shoot again.

I can only shoot from a couple spots on the table..if I can't shoot from those spots..I pass the Dice. I usually shoot straight out (90%) of the time on less packed tables but this past weekend the tables were too full and I had to avoid too many chips on my throws so I switched to Stick Left and did a lot better. It's very uncomfortable (physically) for me to shoot that way..but I usually do better...shorter distance..only have to throw half the table and I am less distracted by late bettors who are behind me.

WongBo,

I sleep 3 hours a day. I need something to be obsessed about to keep me going.

Regarding Randomless #'s

If two different people throw a similar set of numbers over a 10+ year period in craps...is this randomless?

If a Roulette Player plays the same sets of numbers everyday at a couple of casinos over a one-year period and wins an average of $3,000 per session off a $300 buy-in...is this randomless? (100+ Sessions)

If a player wins an average of $3,000 playing Caribbean Stud Poker off a $500 buy-in in one year at several casinos in different countries...is it randomless? (25+ sessions)


Everybody has a "gift"....Craps may not be mine...yet!

Quote: konceptum

What is most fun is when people are upset with me for betting "against them" during their rolls, so that when it's my roll, they bet the Don't. I find it humorous.

I find it uncomfrotable. If I want to play the don't, I'll play the don't. But I've left a table or two because of players who wouldn't quit complaining about it. ANd it's no use saying you're not betting "against" the table, and that even if you were it won't have any influence on the outcome of the roll.

But I'll admit to a bad habit of my own: it bothers me when people put real money on bad bets. It shouldn't. It's their money and they can do with it as they like. I don't mind if someone tosses a dollar on a bad bet, but for some reason I do when someone tosses a green or higher chip to place hardawys and something else, or hop bets.

Now, I don't say anything, but I begin to hope the shooter will roll a seven.

So I've made up my mind not to let bad bets bother me. It won't affect the outcome, either, but I don't enjoy the game when I'm hoping for a seven-out while I have money on the pass line.

Quote: CrapsForever

WongBo,

I sleep 3 hours a day. I need something to be obsessed about to keep me going.

hey, i know the feeling.
that's why i play just about every low-edge table game in the house.
i have diluted my craps obsession with my other gaming obsessions.
it put things in perspective.
every obsessive player thinks there are explanations and patterns.
you think you are superstitious?
try playing baccarat, or pai gow tiles sometime.
all of macau was built on the belief in patterns in baccarat!

on another note, what is the closest land casino to your location in FL?
how often do you get to play at a real casino?
ever been to atlantis in nassau?

Quote: WongBo

hey, i know the feeling.
that's why i play just about every low-edge table game in the house.
i have diluted my craps obsession with my other gaming obsessions.
it put things in perspective.
every obsessive player thinks there are explanations and patterns.
you think you are superstitious?
try playing baccarat, or pai gow tiles sometime.
all of macau was built on the belief in patterns in baccarat!

on another note, what is the closest land casino to your location in FL?
how often do you get to play at a real casino?
ever been to atlantis in nassau?

I play at Land Based Casinos an average of once every 6 weeks. I became obsessed with Craps when I noticed that almost every single craps sessions that I have had a recurring theme over a prolonged period. I am either Rolling Well or COLD...no in-between. And there's a huge correlation to what # i throw right before I 7out. If I throw consecutive Horns, Call "OFF". People call it selective memory but it's been happening in EVERY Craps session for years. It can't be coincidence!

I wouldn't call it "superstitious" but I have a very strong "Instinct" (Can't explain it)...I am trying to master it and use it to help me play better in Craps. I have "mastered" calling my bets "off" when I don't feel right...and about to throw a "7".

I keep track every session of how often I call "off" as a shooter and throw a "7" right back...the % is ridiculous (Much Higher than 50% EACH session)

I have had an obsession with Math since I was a kid...so I try to solve everything Mathematically. I studied Economics Undergrad, MBA Grad School and took lots of statistics classes. I started gambling at a young age, invested in the stock market..I did better in the Market by "Instincts"..when I followed the News/PE Ratios..I got destroyed.

I have been on Craps tables where a lot of people in the PAST YEAR have made $THOUSANDS when I was the shooter and the only one thing in common with all of them; They were all betting the horns specifically 2's & 12's.

Look through my posts, I don't want money from anyone..I have no system to sell. If you ever play with me on a table...listen to what I say when I am the shooter and you will make $$$. In turn, I NEED to learn how to press bets, be patient and not bet on everybody...If I can ever conquer those weaknesses....I can say that I will be a very good Craps player.


Read my review on Atlantis posted on the forum below:

Atlantis, Bahamas

Craps is the most "Jekyll and Hyde" casino game ever invented!

I used to have a lot of patience. I was very disciplined in how I would play. Yes it would hurt to see somebody continually hit numbers I'm not on, but I would just think all the times where I thought about getting in, then the seven came, which saved me money. I've already saved more money than this guy would be making me. But I've moved away from craps because it's agonizing to wait 45 minutes to an hour for the dice just to go PSO on my turn.

I've been getting a lot of PSO's lately on crowded tables. Sure I've had good rolls too but it doesn't make up for bad ones. I'm starting to think that my dice influencing either greatly decreases the seven when I have a good throw, or greatly INCREASES the seven when the throw is slightly off. In my last hundred turns I've had DOZENS of PSO's. Probably a third of my throws. I might've had 10 really good rolls, and the rest are 5 rolls or less. RARELY do I get a mediocre roll. It's either really good or really bad. Maybe it's all in my head.

The next time I play I'll probably just play other shooters and not shoot myself. Just play the 6/8 and do a power pressing thing.

Quote: ewjones080

I used to have a lot of patience. I was very disciplined in how I would play. Yes it would hurt to see somebody continually hit numbers I'm not on, but I would just think all the times where I thought about getting in, then the seven came, which saved me money. I've already saved more money than this guy would be making me. But I've moved away from craps because it's agonizing to wait 45 minutes to an hour for the dice just to go PSO on my turn.

I've been getting a lot of PSO's lately on crowded tables. Sure I've had good rolls too but it doesn't make up for bad ones. I'm starting to think that my dice influencing either greatly decreases the seven when I have a good throw, or greatly INCREASES the seven when the throw is slightly off. In my last hundred turns I've had DOZENS of PSO's. Probably a third of my throws. I might've had 10 really good rolls, and the rest are 5 rolls or less. RARELY do I get a mediocre roll. It's either really good or really bad. Maybe it's all in my head.

The next time I play I'll probably just play other shooters and not shoot myself. Just play the 6/8 and do a power pressing thing.

I have seen so much crazy things in the past year in Craps that I don't think there's an optimal strategy:

1) I saw someone lose $30,000 betting $25 Pass Line/5x Odds, Continuous Come Bets ($25 Come Bets/5x Odds) in 15 hours on a Norwegian Star cruise earlier in January. He was betting with the best House Edge in the game and still lost $30,000!

2) I saw someone make $6,500 profit off a $300 Buy in on Sunday Morning at Bethlehem Sands betting like a lunatic. (Doubling Pass Line on every 7/11, $500 Field Bets, $100 Hard Ways, etc).

3) I saw only 4 Pass Points hit in 2 hours on Friday Night at Bethlehem Sands.

4) I saw 12 consecutive 7outs when the Dice went off the table in Rivers Chicago a few weeks ago.

5) I linked up with a "Dice Setter" who I had only played with once before...he hits Fire Bets like they are going out of style...He PSO'ed TWICE when I linked up with him, KILLING my bankroll... I bet over $200 on him each roll. He left the Casino and went straight home after his second PSO.

6) I have lost $500 betting on just the 6&8 on a $5 Table in 3 hours

7) I have seen 8 Hardways thrown without a soft number thrown on the last roll of a casino cruise by Shooter A (Who was horrible most of the day). Two days later..on the same freaking casino cruise Shooter B (Worst Luck Shooter in the World) threw 11 (ELEVEN) Hardways without throwing a soft number (4,6,8,10) on the last roll of the casino cruise.

I am beginning to realize that no matter what strategy you have...every session/table is different. I have thrown the Dice a lot of different ways...and each craps table is unique. Different "Dice Sets" work for Different Tables. If you find a "Hot Shooter", whether they are "setting", "winging" or "stacking"...if you are having a bad day throwing the Dice, imitate them. I imitated a "hot shooter" last week at Bally's last week and had one of my best throws in years. May have been coincidence...but I doubt it.

I tried the same Dice Set on several other tables and Casinos in AC and it did not work anywhere else. I returned to Bally's the next day and the same Dice Set on the Same table shooting from the Same spot worked beautifully. Might be a "Mental Placebo Effect" but it worked. The same shooter that taught me the Dice Set returned the next day at Bally's, standing at the same exact spot he was the night before and became the PSO King. How do we explain that?

"Imitate the Hot Shooter", If they are just picking up the Dice and throwing them and having success, do the same thing. If nothing works, pass the dice. There is nothing wrong with passing the dice. After 3 rolls, usually PSO, I don't need to touch the Dice anymore for the rest of the day on that specific table.

Not sure about your experience but I usually do BADLY on crowded tables so I try to avoid them when possible. I had 11 PSO out of 12 Rolls on a Casino Cruise earlier this year...everybody was horrible on the table so I kept on trying...worst shooting day of my life!

Every Craps session is unique. If you can follow the "uniqueness"/"trend" of that specific table and bet on it, have fun. If the table is "choppy" like my last session, find something else to play...you are going to get Butchered!

Quote: FourFiveFace

There's something I see quite a bit. People who don't bet on the pass line unless they're shooting (but they'll continue to make their usual place bets and center bets). I also see most don't players opting to only play the don't come and ignore the don't pass. It's like everyone's allergic to making a line bet or something!

It's weird but I'd rather play against a player betting the Don't Come instead of the Don't Pass when I am the shooter especially when I'm "HOT". I hit lots of repeating 7's/Horns on the Comeout roll so the player who has lots of Don't Come Bets up does well with the 7's that I throw.

Regarding players betting the Don't Pass against me.....it's usually a great strategy because a majority (Over 80%) of my 7-outs are of the PSO variety; that's why I have been dubbed the PSO King. If I can get past that first roll after the point is established without throwing a 7 or a Horn; I almost always hit the point/go on a long roll. The ironic thing is I tell the players betting the DP "against" me....."Good Bet", however once I get past that first roll....I tell them "Take down your Bet", most don't listen....giving me extra motivation to hit the point and "Take down the Don'ts".

Last November @ Bethlehem Sands, there was this guy betting big money "Laying the Point" against everyone. He had stacks of chips because nobody could hit more than 2 points in a row before 7ing out all night. Against me, I hit 8 straight points (Career High); he was down about $9,000 on my roll. He started by laying $250 and increasing it by $250 each point I made. It became a personal battle....all I focused on was trying to make him go broke because he wouldn't listen to me and stop betting against me. (My biggest advice to Don't Players: Don't lose your entire bankroll to ONE Hot Shooter!!!)

The Don't Player "laid" $5,000 against me on the 9th point attempt but I 7'ed out. He ran around the table screaming "YES!!!" pointed at me and said "THANK YOU", even though he lost money on my roll. I was so angry!!!

Ironically, I was shooting from the Don'ts the entire time...I don't like changing things up if I am doing well during a roll. I bet $10 on the Don'ts because I was having a COLD night, once I hit my 1st point...I refused to not bet the Don't and increased my Place Bet on the same point from $25...$40...$65...etc with each point that I hit.

I try to be one of those players, only betting on myself. However, at my local casino many bit bosses will not a player shoot if they are not betting. I get around this by using the 5 count and Don’t Pass depending on the table conditions. I always chart a table before playing. I also have a strict dollar amount limit for betting on other players for my session. So if I get to that limit my play is over for the session. I never bet pass line on other players and use a 2 hit and down strategy (depending on table conditions) when placing numbers.

Good Luck

I have a "complex" pressing strategy that involves the 6 & 8 place bets. Basically, I start at $6 or $12 on each and bring up both simultaneously as I feel like it (This is the only real time in my life that I give into OCD, my place bets absolutely positively must be symmetric). This along with a pass line bet/odds is what I'll do when other people are shooting, I'm a very disciplined craps player in this regard but since I seriously overbet my bankroll things even out.

When I'm shooting I might start higher and place the 5 & 9 (Something I will do on another person's roll once in a blue moon), basically I go in heavier when I'm shooting.

If I want to lower my variance because A. I've won a lot and want to hold onto that money or B. I've been destroyed so I don't have much left - I will play the dark side without odds. One $5 DP and a couple of $5 DC's is a lot of action for very little cash.

I am the biggest idiot ever!

Made 9 points out of 12 attempts in 2 hours.
Did not bet enough money on myself...
Could not get past 3 unique points on the fire bet (Twice)
Kept on betting on random fools who could not make a point to save their lives.

Yet again, I don't learn to only bet on myself!

So I've decided that when I play craps, I will bet the pass line with everyone else, but only do place/come bets when I'm throwing - here's my resoning.

Betting max odds w/ the pass line you're most likely to lose a bit of money but can typically play for a long time... but it's impossible to track what each person at a table has done.

Since craps is a random game that can have wide variance, it's much easier for me to keep track of my own rolls.

I can take my chips and easily track how may 7s, Craps, Points and PSOs and so if I shoot 100 times, I'm likely to point roughly 41 times and not 59. Over the long-run, I think I may be able to recognize what's a statistically significant varience and take my shots then. So let's say in 100 opportunities to point, I point 80 times, that's statistically signifcant and then I'll start betting heavier on myself to 7-out to see if it swings back (knowing nothing is guaranteed). Likewise, if I 7-out 90 times out of 100, that's also statistically signifcant and I may want to think about heavier pass line bets.

If I see 72 7's out of 100 rolls, that's 2x as many as I should see and it should, hopefully sooner rather than later, balance out.

Same with craps.

It's a long and patient way to play and I'll never know when a streak starts or ends until it's all over and I may miss some peoples' lucky streaks but I think I'm more likely to miss an unlucky streak (how many of us have seen 10 PSO's from 10 straight shooters vs 10 shooters that each point and 7-out or do better?).

Just my thoughts on the subject.

All that said, we've started a family businss and I'm not entering a casino until we show a positive annual net income. Heh.

~FH

It is EASY! The reason this shooter waits is he/she probably takes care to set the dice in a V with the 2 threes face up in his hands then rolls them into the corner end over end trying to NOT hit the back wall to much. The reason is some believe that they can slightly change the odds in their favor AGAINST a seven showing. I was at Foxwoods one night many years ago and saw a woman -a large woman- shooting this way and I made shy $600.00 at the 10- 12 dollar place bet level. She held the dice for 40 minutes I'm not kidding. She just kept hitting the numbers lots of 6&8's and her sevens were all on the come outs. ?????

A story here cause I have practiced this and whether or not it works truly is beyond my guess but I was successful with it one afternoon long ago to the point that the floor man wanted my info. He was very polite but persistant and I left. (I was leaving that same afternoon anyway I just think he was trying to raz me away cause there was only one other shooter at the table and I kept getting the dice and was winning.) I never tried it again.

There is a book out about this throwing technique. I cannot remember it's name= but I have read it.

I'm sure the casinos have caught on by now and watch for these "set rollers" so there must be something to it. (They want you to hit the back wall of the table with your rolls) Certainly if one wanted to read up and practice this I wouldn't do it with all my friends doing the same thing at the tables---you might get noticed. So that's probably why "this shooter" waits for the dice to go all the way around to him before he makes bet.

Be sure of this ...if you start winning big and have long rolls....someone IS watching you!!!

Have you ever noticed that alot of people really s*** at throwing the dice. I don't know why but I too can't stand the way some folks roll the bones. I swear I can tell 60% of the time when someone is going to put up a number and seven out quickly. Some folks just have bad luck.

I was in Atlantic city Ceasars (just came down from my room for a first crack) and this one guy was spinning the dice sideways out of his fingers-- I mean really spinning them-- and I won $400.00 in about twenty minutes. i can't understand this but right away I liked this guys tehnique and i was glad I jumped in!

Quote: CrapsForever

I am the biggest idiot ever!

Made 9 points out of 12 attempts in 2 hours.
Did not bet enough money on myself...
Could not get past 3 unique points on the fire bet (Twice)
Kept on betting on random fools who could not make a point to save their lives.

Yet again, I don't learn to only bet on myself!

The Craps bug bites deeply. My last session I dropped 400+ out of a $500 buy in shooting all by myself at JAN in Sparks at 9:00AM. Personally I enjoy a half full to 3/4 full table, I like interacting with the other shooters and the dealers. I'm one of those guys who believes every roll is a seperate, random event, despite seeming evidence to the contrary(once rolled 4 consecutive 3's followed by 2 twelves, much to the delight of the guy at the opposite end betting the C&E). I suspect we're all adrenilin junkies at heart. Going up the mountain to Cripple Creek pretty soon , I've got the itch.

do not bet on chicken feeders they will lose, if you are a controlled shooter bet on your self.