Serious craps question...

I have a 20k craps bankroll right now. I want to bet according to the advantage for each possible bet that I make just as in blackjack. Problem is I know not the math to do such a thing.

I was also told by someone, whom I highly regard, that doing this would decrease my e.v. and lower my standard deviation as well as raising the house advantage. Completely opposite of blackjack.

I am looking to get up over the 70% chance line of hitting 7.5k profit. A 5k would also suit me well since I plan on using the profit to play blackjack with.

Normally I would just play blackjack, but after about a week of it and being up for 4 days I need some action and the old lady ran off to the poker tables with my blackjack bankroll. I would not have let her take it if I was not sure about her ability to pick off the drunkens, the chip fumbling fools and the babies that get red faced when bluffing. She will make a profit she always does. :)

Here is the link to how I would play. I would like to have aminimum bet of 20 other than that ignore any bet amounts. Just pay attention to what I would bet on.

https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/craps/9238-modified-iron-cross/

Thanks for the help if not thanks anyways.

is there some reason you have posted about this before and not gotten the message?

the iron cross is immutably a loser. There is no way to 'make a profit' outside of getting fabulously lucky.

That is a hilarious comment. keep it up. You can win big in this game even if you have more small loses than big wins. hush... thats supposed to be a secret. I am just learning the game but obviously i have a better understanding of it than you do with your 2300+ posts.

to get a 75% chance of winning 7.5k ON PAPER..
you are going to need A LOT more than 20k bankroll.

I promise to keep your secret ... boy, what if the casinos find out before you can sock it to them?

Question 1. How do you have an advantage at craps?

Question 2. How does anyone but the extremely rich have a 20K bankroll?

Question 1 is for you - retardod, Question 2 is for everyone.

I don't understand how people have the money to lose so much. My wife and I work hard at decent jobs, and we have barely any money leftover after paying bills. We can afford to go to the casino and lose $200 each once a month and it's no big deal. And I'm fine with that.

I'm 30, and when I go to the casino, I see people my age playing $25 craps and $50 BJ with $1000 buyins. I'm not jealous or anything - but these people must be gambling too much, right? If you can afford to lose $1000 in one night I imagine you should be making around 150K a year, right? I just can't imagine that all these people are that rich.

I will never have a 20K bankroll for anything gambling. Nor would I want one. For the next 25 years that money would be better spent on college for my kids, or my retirement. When I'm 55 that money would be better spent on travel or on my grandchildren.

Sorry for the rant.

Quote: FinsRule

We can afford to go to the casino and lose $200 each once a month and it's no big deal. And I'm fine with that.

I'm 30, and when I go to the casino, I see people my age playing $25 craps and $50 BJ with $1000 buyins. I'm not jealous or anything - but these people must be gambling too much, right?

Just to put it in perspective, if you visit Vegas twice a year and can afford the same annual action, that's a $1200 buy-in each time. If you buy in for $1200, red chips aren't aggressive enough. Don't forget, three hours of green continuous pass/come+odds action, or three hours of $25 pass+odds and $30 6/8, is only worth around $100 in theoretical loss. You have to get reasonably unlucky to bust out in three hours with that sort of bankroll and betting pattern.

If nothing else, you have a better chance of coming out ahead playing green twice a year than you do playing red every month.

Quote: FinsRule

I'm 30, and when I go to the casino, I see people my age playing $25 craps and $50 BJ with $1000 buyins. I'm not jealous or anything - but these people must be gambling too much, right? If you can afford to lose $1000 in one night I imagine you should be making around 150K a year, right? I just can't imagine that all these people are that rich.

I will never have a 20K bankroll for anything gambling. Nor would I want one. For the next 25 years that money would be better spent on college for my kids, or my retirement. When I'm 55 that money would be better spent on travel or on my grandchildren.

when I was about 30, it seemed like I was always broke. A much older very good friend told me, though, that although he didnt know when, that one day I would have money. Though to "have money" was unquantified, I formed a picture of what he meant though still had my doubts. But it did prove to be true. This year is proving to be a bad year income-wise from the job, but it seems to be more a matter of lost investment opportunity than anything. Job income will return, I don't know when, but I no longer have serious doubts.

Keep plugging away, Finsrule, one day you will have money. I don't know when that will be, and there are assumptions [e.g. health, no addictions], but it will happen. You can PM me then and let me know [g].

btw, almost 5k per yr in gambling losses, like you describe, would keep me up at night.

[edits]

Quote: FinsRule

Question

I'm 30, and when I go to the casino, I see people my age playing $25 craps and $50 BJ with $1000 buyins. I'm not jealous or anything - but these people must be gambling too much, right? If you can afford to lose $1000 in one night I imagine you should be making around 150K a year, right? I just can't imagine that all these people are that rich.

A lot of them got their money the old fashioned way: they inherited it.

Seriously.

There is A LOT of wealth passed on from one generation to the next.

Now if only we could find a shooter who got red-faced immediately prior to rolling a Seven.

Quote: MathExtremist

Just to put it in perspective, if you visit Vegas twice a year and can afford the same annual action, that's a $1200 buy-in each time. If you buy in for $1200, red chips aren't aggressive enough. Don't forget, three hours of green continuous pass/come+odds action, or three hours of $25 pass+odds and $30 6/8, is only worth around $100 in theoretical loss. You have to get reasonably unlucky to bust out in three hours with that sort of bankroll and betting pattern.

If nothing else, you have a better chance of coming out ahead playing green twice a year than you do playing red every month.

today i busted out in an hr w/$1000 bankroll on continuous $10pass/come + 3/4/5x odds + place $30 6/8 + buy $15 4/10.
very unlucky. tooooooo many 7's early on :(

Quote: odiousgambit

when I was about 30, it seemed like I was always broke. A much older very good friend told me, though, that although he didnt know when, that one day I would have money. Though to "have money" was unquantified, I formed a picture of what he meant though still had my doubts. But it did prove to be true. This year is proving to be a bad year income-wise from the job, but it seems to be more a matter of lost investment opportunity than anything. Job income will return, I don't know when, but I no longer have serious doubts.

Keep plugging away, Finsrule, one day you will have money. I don't know when that will be, and there are assumptions [e.g. health, no addictions], but it will happen. You can PM me then and let me know [g].

btw, almost 5k per yr in gambling losses, like you describe, would keep me up at night.

[edits]

i have $5k in gambling loses this year, and it's only April :(
2nd biggest loss year was $3k in 2009.

but no, not keeping me up at nite.

Quote: 100xOdds

today i busted out in an hr w/$1000 bankroll on continuous $10pass/come + 3/4/5x odds + place $30 6/8 + buy $15 4/10.
very unlucky. tooooooo many 7's early on :(

No good...

Quote: FinsRule

Question 2. How does anyone but the extremely rich have a 20K bankroll?

I don't understand how people have the money to lose so much. My wife and I work hard at decent jobs, and we have barely any money leftover after paying bills. We can afford to go to the casino and lose $200 each once a month and it's no big deal. And I'm fine with that.

I'm 30, and when I go to the casino, I see people my age playing $25 craps and $50 BJ with $1000 buyins. I'm not jealous or anything - but these people must be gambling too much, right? If you can afford to lose $1000 in one night I imagine you should be making around 150K a year, right? I just can't imagine that all these people are that rich.

I will never have a 20K bankroll for anything gambling. Nor would I want one. For the next 25 years that money would be better spent on college for my kids, or my retirement. When I'm 55 that money would be better spent on travel or on my grandchildren.

Sorry for the rant.

I'm one of the people who would probably annoy/baffle you. I'm 27 and on my last Vegas trip, I took about $16K, and would usually buy in for $600 with another $400 ready to go if I lost it quickly. It was supposed to be for advantage play, but as I noted in my trip report, things got sloppy and I ended up playing craps with most of it. You are correct that it's very unwise, but I'm single with no kids (just cats). I pay cheap rent for the area, I drive a junker, and I don't spend much money in general. In fact if I bought groceries and ate at home instead of eating out all the time, I would save even more. If I had lost the whole nut on that trip, it would have sucked but I would have survived. My last job paid $95K/year just for context.

Quote: MathExtremist

Don't forget, three hours of green continuous pass/come+odds action, or three hours of $25 pass+odds and $30 6/8, is only worth around $100 in theoretical loss. You have to get reasonably unlucky to bust out in three hours with that sort of bankroll and betting pattern.

As someone who plays at that level, you're not really thinking about theoretical loss at that point - you're thinking about the crazy variance that is going to wipe out a chunk of your trip bankroll in the space of an hour.

Probably the worst I ever felt in a casino was after I lost 2 grand at a Caesars craps table in less than an hour. After that one, I considered quitting for the weekend, but of course I didn't. I got lucky and made it back.

the earlier post asked if you had to be rich to have a 20K bankroll.
95K is close to the 95% percentile for a single person in the US.
do you consider that "rich"?

Quote: WongBo

the earlier post asked if you had to be rich to have a 20K bankroll.
95K is close to the 95% percentile for a single person in the US.
do you consider that "rich"?

It's subjective. Rich, sure. But you also have to take into account cost of living - I live in a relatively expensive city. But I definitely wouldn't call myself "extremely rich," which were FinsRule's exact words.

Also as per the career advice thread, my current salary is $0. If I had to prognosticate, I would guess I'll probably re-enter the workforce closer to the $50-60K range, and hopefully start climbing the ladder.

when i tell my friends who make 100K+ a year what their income percentile is,
they usually can't believe how close to the top they are.
there are a lot of factors that affect people perceptions and living circumstances as you said.
i live in manhattan, so of course the numbers are not really accurate here...
sorry to hear you won't be in the 95th percentile anymore,
but on the bright side; 50K is 85% percentile and 60K is 88% percentile. :)

I'm going to consider someone making 100K who doesn't support anyone else "rich". I think top 5% is fair for "rich". Of course, where you live does have an affect on that, so I'll use Chicago, where I live, as a base.

"Extremely rich" is pretty vague, but someone who can afford to lose 20K in craps would have to fit in that category.