gambler
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March 17th, 2012 at 9:41:20 AM permalink
Would craps receive more action if they add an electronic board which shows the last 25 (or more) rolls?

I am thinking something similar to roulette or baccarat. It could show both dice, so people could see how many hardways were rolled.
MidwestAP
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March 17th, 2012 at 9:48:07 AM permalink
Although I've never seen a board with past craps rolls, it wouldn't surprise me if it's been done or being done somewhere. It seems to make sense from a casino's perspective, luring people to the game, hoping they can predict the outcome of future independent rolls based on previous outcomes.
DJTeddyBear
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March 17th, 2012 at 9:55:20 AM permalink
TCS John Huxley, the manufacturer of most of the Roulette wheels and displays used, also makes a history display for craps:

Admin note: removed image www.djteddybear.com/images/craps_history.png

I assume that the reason it hasn't gotten the number of installs it deserves is because, unlike Roulette with it's sensors, someone would need to enter the dice values. Too time consuming for a fast paced game like Craps.
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ ————————————————————————————————————— Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
WatchMeWin
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March 17th, 2012 at 10:05:41 AM permalink
As a craps lover and money maker... I love the idea. Two problems I see with it. 1) In roulette, there is a machine that automatically detects where the ball lands and posts the number on the digital board. In craps, they would have to have a person enter the number of the roll... after every frikin roll, manually. That would be a nightmare unless they hired people specifically to enter numbers on every table. I dont think those additional salaries would justify the attraction. 2) To tell you the truth, if it were posted, when people actually see how many frikin 7s come up on every game, they may just run away. There is probably 1 out of every 100,000 rolls that is considered at hot roll lets say a 30 minute roll or so.
'Winners hit n run... Losers stick around'
fremont4ever
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March 17th, 2012 at 11:54:21 AM permalink
It's not completely what you're looking for, but the Fremont has a counter at their tables that keeps track of how many rolls the current shooter has had since the last 7-out. If they can do that, something like the electronic board as discussed here shouldn't be all that complicated. Probably more difficult to study at a glance.

It's something I'd like to see, but I don't expect to see much of it in the near future, and I'm OK with that.
thecesspit
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March 17th, 2012 at 12:41:39 PM permalink
Box man presses one of 11 buttons after each roll. How hard could it be if he had the buttons lined up in front of him?
"Then you can admire the real gambler, who has neither eaten, slept, thought nor lived, he has so smarted under the scourge of his martingale, so suffered on the rack of his desire for a coup at trente-et-quarante" - Honore de Balzac, 1829
DJTeddyBear
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March 17th, 2012 at 12:51:50 PM permalink
Quote: thecesspit

Box man presses one of 11 buttons after each roll. How hard could it be if he had the buttons lined up in front of him?

Because of hardways and hop bets, the boxman (or whoever) would need to enter the exact roll. That would require either pushing two buttons, or pushing one button on a panel that had a button for each of the 21 unique combinations .

Quote: fremont4ever

... the Fremont has a counter at their tables that keeps track of how many rolls the current shooter has had since the last 7-out. If they can do that, something like the electronic board as discussed here shouldn't be all that complicated.

The ShowBoat in A.C. had that for a while, for a long roll of the week contest. The problem was, the boxman often forgot to push the button, so he would occasionally push it several times, guessing at how many rolls he missed.

I was keeping track. His accuracy could easily be described as crappy.
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ ————————————————————————————————————— Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
MidwestAP
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March 17th, 2012 at 12:58:47 PM permalink
I'm sure they can figure a way to imbed microchips in the die and then when they bring them to the middle of the table, a sensor in the table above the prop bets could electronically record the roll. If it's cost effective is a different discussion.
CrapsForever
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March 17th, 2012 at 1:43:42 PM permalink
There are new slot machines here in South Florida called "Hot Roll". I'm not a fan of Slot machines but I LOVE Craps so I'll play anything Craps related. It's basically like any regular slot machine however when you reach the bonus stage by having 3 "Hot Rolls" symbols line up on the screen, you get to "roll" dice on the screen, you keep acquiring bonuses until you "7" out. Have any of you guys played it? It's really cool. You get to "set" the dice by pressing on the screen on the two die until you get the dice set you like, then you drag the dice back by tugging on the screen and pushing forward; it looks very realistic. I played it yesterday at a Casino Miami in Miami yesterday, first time I hit the bonus I "threw" the dice randomly and 7'ed out on my 3rd roll.

I hit the bonus again with my last $2 and "set" both die on Aces, I went on 22 rolls before "7ing" out. Turned $2 into $79. The slot machine keeps track of the last roll on the bonus feature; so when I walked away it showed that I had 22 total rolls. The tracking of rolls is a nice touch and I'd love to see a tracking measure like this at an actual Craps table.
Craps is the most "Jekyll and Hyde" casino game ever invented!
Nareed
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March 17th, 2012 at 1:57:20 PM permalink
1) In Rapid Craps, the dealer already enters the roll every time. So that would be simple to implement there. Of course, in RC the dealer doesn't have to figure out payouts.

2) It wouldn't be too hard or expensive to put a small video camera near the center of the table. Next the stick man would pull the dice without changing the way they rolled (which would be a bit difficult) to the camera before passing them back to the shooter. This can go on while bets are paid.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
AlanMendelson
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March 17th, 2012 at 2:00:34 PM permalink
This isnt a bad idea to have a display board for craps. in fact, I can see it happening if a casino were to have a system for "away from table" betting and at the same time that the roll is entered on the tote board it is also sent to your wireless device at the swimming pool so you can manage your bets.

Didn't the NGC approve remote betting in some forms? this would be the way to do it for craps.

Alan Mendelson
2:00pm March 17, 2012 just in case I had the idea first and someone else tries to copyright or trademark it. LOL
fremont4ever
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March 17th, 2012 at 2:23:20 PM permalink
Quote: DJTeddyBear

The ShowBoat in A.C. had that for a while, for a long roll of the week contest. The problem was, the boxman often forgot to push the button, so he would occasionally push it several times, guessing at how many rolls he missed.

I was keeping track. His accuracy could easily be described as crappy.



The Fremont has been doing this for awhile, continuously, so I think their accuracy is a little better. Not perfect, though.

Quote: MidwestAP

I'm sure they can figure a way to imbed microchips in the die and then when they bring them to the middle of the table, a sensor in the table above the prop bets could electronically record the roll. If it's cost effective is a different discussion.



The problem with adding a microchip is making it small enough so that it wouldn't unbalance the die.
thecesspit
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March 17th, 2012 at 2:45:38 PM permalink
Push them under a camera, imaging tech is good enough to read two dice when triggered.

Boxman can push two buttons out of six easily enough if tracking the hardways is also important (which I guess it is). This isnt hard to do. It is probably not worth the electronics and hassle all in though. But I dont see the data entry bit being the hurdle.
"Then you can admire the real gambler, who has neither eaten, slept, thought nor lived, he has so smarted under the scourge of his martingale, so suffered on the rack of his desire for a coup at trente-et-quarante" - Honore de Balzac, 1829
AlanMendelson
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March 17th, 2012 at 3:39:24 PM permalink
several problems with the chip idea:

yes, it could put the dice off balance, but Im sure that can be resolved with equally wheighted chips using RFID technology.

The bigger issue is when a "judgment call" has to be made based on a die's position. Do you let the technology make the call or a boxman or dealer make the call? That would be interesting, wouldn't it??
pacomartin
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March 17th, 2012 at 3:59:33 PM permalink
Quote: MidwestAP

I'm sure they can figure a way to imbed microchips in the die and then when they bring them to the middle of the table, a sensor in the table above the prop bets could electronically record the roll. If it's cost effective is a different discussion.



Craps players are notoriously conservative. If you change something to the dice, there will be people who will be paranoid. You may lose as many players as you attract. It's better to let people scribble into a notebook, and keep their own data.
Ayecarumba
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March 17th, 2012 at 6:24:48 PM permalink
I recall seeing a tracking board on a photo of a craps table on the Wizard's Macau page.

edit: Yep, here it is
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication - Leonardo da Vinci
Doc
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March 17th, 2012 at 6:40:25 PM permalink
Quote: Ayecarumba

... edit: Yep, here it is

Is there a link error, or has the site been hijacked, or is there some joke I don't get? What I get at that link is a picture of Brezhnev with the caption, "This site is decadent and weak."
Triplell
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March 17th, 2012 at 6:45:55 PM permalink
It would be pretty easy (although maybe more expensive then it is worth), to just put a camera/sensor somewhere in the middle, have the stick man set the dice to the last roll, and press a button which would detect the dice. No adding "technology" to the dice, which would only add to skeptics concern.

I don't think all this effort would be worth it. Maybe for Rapid craps or whatever, but nothing else...
teddys
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March 17th, 2012 at 7:50:16 PM permalink
Quote: Doc

Quote: Ayecarumba

... edit: Yep, here it is

Is there a link error, or has the site been hijacked, or is there some joke I don't get? What I get at that link is a picture of Brezhnev with the caption, "This site is decadent and weak."

The Wizard doesn't allow deep linking to his photos. The Brezhev pic is a placeholder.
"Dice, verily, are armed with goads and driving-hooks, deceiving and tormenting, causing grievous woe." -Rig Veda 10.34.4
Pokeraddict
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March 17th, 2012 at 8:28:36 PM permalink
Quote: fremont4ever

It's not completely what you're looking for, but the Fremont has a counter at their tables that keeps track of how many rolls the current shooter has had since the last 7-out. If they can do that, something like the electronic board as discussed here shouldn't be all that complicated. Probably more difficult to study at a glance.

It's something I'd like to see, but I don't expect to see much of it in the near future, and I'm OK with that.



I have watched them, and they screw it up a lot. I would imagine there are many rolls that do not have a correct total, especially if they go into the double digits.
DJTeddyBear
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March 18th, 2012 at 4:08:27 AM permalink
Quote: teddys

Quote: Doc

Quote: Ayecarumba

... edit: Yep, here it is

Is there a link error, or has the site been hijacked, or is there some joke I don't get? What I get at that link is a picture of Brezhnev with the caption, "This site is decadent and weak."

The Wizard doesn't allow deep linking to his photos. The Brezhev pic is a placeholder.


Something fishy is going on.

When I clicked on the link, I got the "decadent" photo.

When I added "www." to the url, I got the intended photo.

When I then clicked on the link, I got the intended photo.
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ ————————————————————————————————————— Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
AZDuffman
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March 18th, 2012 at 6:01:08 AM permalink
Quote: gambler

Would craps receive more action if they add an electronic board which shows the last 25 (or more) rolls?

I am thinking something similar to roulette or baccarat. It could show both dice, so people could see how many hardways were rolled.



Would "craps" receive more action, no I don't think it would.

Could this push more action towards the center-bets based on "lots of 7s," or some other large/small amount of player favorite combos, it might.

An issue I see is that there isn't a great deal of room to put this on a craps table. Roulette can put it behind the wheel, but in craps nearly every square inch is needed for players or dealers.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
DJTeddyBear
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March 18th, 2012 at 6:21:13 AM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

An issue I see is that there isn't a great deal of room to put this on a craps table. Roulette can put it behind the wheel, but in craps nearly every square inch is needed for players or dealers.

I don't think space is an issue.

The control panel doesn't need to be big. Heck, just a small row of buttons along the rail where the boxman sits. No big deal. The monitor can be ceiling mounted.
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ ————————————————————————————————————— Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
FatGeezus
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March 18th, 2012 at 10:09:41 AM permalink
Pushing two buttons shouldn't be a problem.

In SIC BO they use three dice and press three buttons all the time.
DJTeddyBear
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March 18th, 2012 at 10:38:39 AM permalink
That's because Sic-Bo has so many ways to bet, and so many of which are winners and all others are losers, that doing it electronically is the fastest method.
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ ————————————————————————————————————— Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
QuadDeuces
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March 18th, 2012 at 1:20:03 PM permalink
Quote:

Something fishy is going on.

When I clicked on the link, I got the "decadent" photo.



Because the HTTP Referer (sic) header is set to a different site than wizardofmacau.com.

Quote:

When I added "www." to the url, I got the intended photo.



Because this would cause your browser to not send an HTTP Referer because you directly entered the URL.

All you should really need to do is copy the link and paste it into the browser's location bar and reload.

Quote:

When I then clicked on the link, I got the intended photo.



Are you sure? If this happened it probably has something to do with your browser's cache.

This might be an oversight. It might be beneficial to allow linking images from and among wizardardofvegas.com, wizardofmacau.com and wizardofodds.com.
Doc
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March 18th, 2012 at 1:32:43 PM permalink
Well, I finally jumped through the hoops to be able to view the image. To me, the interesting thing in the photo is not the tracking screen but the chairs around a crap table. I have seen someone pull a chair up to a table, but (other than tubs) I don't think I have seen a table already set up with chairs all around. Besides the fact that I would really like to be able to sit down while not shooting, I think the interesting point is that this particular table appears to have a total of 8 chairs set up. While I have seen plenty of nearly-empty crap tables around, I don't think I have been to a casino that would try to discourage additional players from joining the table. Most tables are eight players or more on each end, depending on the table size.
Nareed
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March 18th, 2012 at 6:52:58 PM permalink
Quote: Doc

I have seen someone pull a chair up to a table, but (other than tubs) I don't think I have seen a table already set up with chairs all around.



We have to get you to Bill's so you can stare at the Rapid Craps table. If memory serves, 10 or 12 people seat around it. And when i was there last, two years ago, you could stand up to shoot (you pretty much had to).
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
Doc
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March 18th, 2012 at 7:00:47 PM permalink
Nareed, when I was there last June, I didn't see them operating a Rapid Craps table. Do they still have one going? Instead, I was bleeding cash at their standard crap table.
Nareed
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March 18th, 2012 at 7:18:34 PM permalink
Quote: Doc

Nareed, when I was there last June, I didn't see them operating a Rapid Craps table. Do they still have one going? Instead, I was bleeding cash at their standard crap table.




Really? As far as I knew it was still there. You can't miss it, either, as it's right by the Strip entrance. Their website has prominent links to it, too. So I should assume it's still there.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
DJTeddyBear
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March 18th, 2012 at 7:25:34 PM permalink
Bill's still had it this past October.
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ ————————————————————————————————————— Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
Doc
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March 18th, 2012 at 7:39:21 PM permalink
I have seen that table on previous visits, but either I overlooked it last June or they didn't have it working while I was there. The regular tables were doing a lot of business even mid day. Some day I want to give it a try. One of my complaints about the standard game is the folks who throw chips all over the table, disturbing the shooter and possibly moving someone else's wager. Rapid craps should eliminate that completely, and I would like to see how convenient/easy it is to use their touch screen for my own bets.
guido111
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March 18th, 2012 at 8:00:41 PM permalink
Quote: Doc

Nareed, when I was there last June, I didn't see them operating a Rapid Craps table. Do they still have one going? Instead, I was bleeding cash at their standard crap table.

Yep.
Was just there 2 weeks ago.
The Rapid Craps table opens every day at noon.
They always have 2 dealers working the game, most times, and this helps out the newbies with a small learning curve on using the touch screen to make your bets. Once the basics are down, IMO using the touch screen is very simple.

There are 14 terminals and it is easier to shoot the dice standing up but you can sitting down also.
FatGeezus
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March 19th, 2012 at 7:30:39 AM permalink
Quote: DJTeddyBear

That's because Sic-Bo has so many ways to bet, and so many of which are winners and all others are losers, that doing it electronically is the fastest method.



I know that, but the issue raised was that it would be too difficult to push two buttons at the crap table.
CrapsForever
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May 13th, 2012 at 7:32:22 PM permalink
I played on the "Hot Roll" slot machine again last week:

Quote: CrapsForever

There are new slot machines here in South Florida called "Hot Roll". I'm not a fan of Slot machines but I LOVE Craps so I'll play anything Craps related. It's basically like any regular slot machine however when you reach the bonus stage by having 3 "Hot Rolls" symbols line up on the screen, you get to "roll" dice on the screen, you keep acquiring bonuses until you "7" out. Have any of you guys played it? It's really cool. You get to "set" the dice by pressing on the screen on the two die until you get the dice set you like, then you drag the dice back by tugging on the screen and pushing forward; it looks very realistic. I played it yesterday at a Casino Miami in Miami yesterday, first time I hit the bonus I "threw" the dice randomly and 7'ed out on my 3rd roll.

I hit the bonus again with my last $2 and "set" both die on Aces, I went on 22 rolls before "7ing" out. Turned $2 into $79. The slot machine keeps track of the last roll on the bonus feature; so when I walked away it showed that I had 22 total rolls. The tracking of rolls is a nice touch and I'd love to see a tracking measure like this at an actual Craps table.



I started with $20...First time the bonus feature hit, I let the dice roll automatically and 7'ed out on my 3rd roll. Down to my last $3, I hit the Bonus feature again playing a total of $0.80 per roll and decided to "set" the Dice on Aces which gave me good luck last time; I went on 39 ROLLS (Highest I have ever seen) before 7ing out. Turned my last $3 to $106. This is my favorite Slot Machine EVER! It really feels like I'm playing Craps.

Has anyone else played this Slot Machine?
Craps is the most "Jekyll and Hyde" casino game ever invented!
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