Indian Casino Craps Question
Quote: jmurillo74I live in California, our Indian casinos don't alow dice to determine the outcome, they use cards or have some type of video version of craps.
It isn't the tribes. It's the state.
Quote:Anyway, are Indian casinos in other states the same as California, or do they have traditional style craps games.
You can tell by the discussions here about Mohegan Sun and Foxwoods, among others, that almost all others use real dice.
But to answer your question, yes, other states use dice at their indian casinos. I posted a review about a week back about my craps experience at an Indian casino.
My days playing craps with dice are probably over!!!
Quote: SanchoPanzaIt isn't the tribes. It's the state.
You can tell by the discussions here about Mohegan Sun and Foxwoods, among others, that almost all others use real dice.
I kind of figured that, typical California politician knowing what is in my best interest. I also had a feeling card craps was unique to California, aren't those casinos in Conneticut
There is a section on counting card craps.
Quote: klimate10Go to discountgambling.net.
There is a section on counting card craps.
Last time I played at Viejas, it had a continuous card shuffler I thought. Doesn't this invalidate card counting?
Quote: klimate10Go to discountgambling.net.
There is a section on counting card craps.
Oh never mind - I read more about it. Cool.
Who knew you could count a CSM. This is almost too good to be true.
Quote: jmurillo74I kind of figured that, typical California politician knowing what is in my best interest. I also had a feeling card craps was unique to California, aren't those casinos in Conneticut
I wonder what the history of that law that dice cannot determine the outcome of the game in Cali.
I wonder if the big money in Vegas had something to do with it - being so close and all.
Quote: slackyhackyI wonder what the history of that law that dice cannot determine the outcome of the game in Cali.
I wonder if the big money in Vegas had something to do with it - being so close and all.
Your probably right about the Vegas connection, good thing I only live 4 from Vegas/laughlin, and it's probably better we don't have traditional craps games out here in California, I'd be at the casinos way too often.
Quote: jmurillo74Your probably right about the Vegas connection, good thing I only live 4 from Vegas/laughlin, and it's probably better we don't have traditional craps games out here in California, I'd be at the casinos way too often.
Actually, not so much the Vegas connection, but the tagging of poker as a game of "skill" by law makers who enjoyed their regular cash game, and therefore, not a prohibited form of "gambling",(where decisions were made by random means like dice or wheels). Since that time, regulation and game design have danced around this distinction by having all "California Game" wagers determined by "card based" outcomes.
Quote: slackyhackyI wonder what the history of that law that dice cannot determine the outcome of the game in Cali.
I wonder if the big money in Vegas had something to do with it - being so close and all.
If Vegas had that much say in the matter, I doubt the tribal casinos in California would have even house-dealt blackjack. The last time I remember Vegas getting "openly" involved in California gambling is when it teamed up with horse racing and animal rights interests to oppose a ballot measure that would have allowed greyhound racing in the state.
What restricts the games that can be played are the "tribal compacts" between the state and the individual tribes.
Click Here for the current list of ratified compacts.
Section 98004 of California's Government Code describes a "standard" Compact, but it looks like it is the "old" version that does not include house-banked card games or "independent" slot machines, and it looks like the Governor can put pretty much whatever he wants (or doesn't want) to into an actual gaming compact, although most of them are the same as to what they allow.
Years ago, when Morongo near Palm Springs started card craps they used this system:
Two shoes, one red, one blue. Cut card inserted about two-thirds through one of the shoes. After the cut card is reached, the shoes are reshuffled after the next 7 out.
I showed up at the table just as the new shoes were introduced. Come out was established. I bet $32 across ($5 table). About two hours later I had more than $3k in my pocket and about $300 on the table.
There was no 7-out... they went right through the cut card till the shoes were empty.
An interesting situation happened after the cut card, and about 3/4 of the shoes were played. Morongo allowed players to track which cards were played. We soon discovered that nearly all of the "small cards" were gone. We started loading up on the big numbers -- including 11s and 12s and they were hitting and hitting.
Max Bet at the table at the time was $100.
Most players at the table were betting pass for $5. Plus 6 and 8. Everyone thought the next draw would be the 7-out. But it never came.
They reshuffled and about 4 draws into the new shoes the 7 out came.
I understand they have since changed to some sort of continuous shuffle.
Quote: AlanMendelsonBeating the Indian casino at card craps:
Years ago, when Morongo near Palm Springs started card craps they used this system:
Two shoes, one red, one blue. Cut card inserted about two-thirds through one of the shoes. After the cut card is reached, the shoes are reshuffled after the next 7 out.
I showed up at the table just as the new shoes were introduced. Come out was established. I bet $32 across ($5 table). About two hours later I had more than $3k in my pocket and about $300 on the table.
There was no 7-out... they went right through the cut card till the shoes were empty.
An interesting situation happened after the cut card, and about 3/4 of the shoes were played. Morongo allowed players to track which cards were played. We soon discovered that nearly all of the "small cards" were gone. We started loading up on the big numbers -- including 11s and 12s and they were hitting and hitting.
Max Bet at the table at the time was $100.
Most players at the table were betting pass for $5. Plus 6 and 8. Everyone thought the next draw would be the 7-out. But it never came.
They reshuffled and about 4 draws into the new shoes the 7 out came.
I understand they have since changed to some sort of continuous shuffle.
Discount Gambling article on counting card craps. Even with a CSM, you can get a small edge under the rules presented there.
Morongo uses 2 CSMs with 312 cards each. the A-6 from 13 decks.Quote: AcesAndEightsDiscount Gambling article on counting card craps. Even with a CSM, you can get a small edge under the rules presented there.
DG would gave to do some different calcs for that config.
About as close to real dice as you can get with cards using his Excel worksheet
unless you do the cards like Soboba Casino where each 36 ways the dice can roll are represented on 36 cards. I have not been there in a long time.
San Manuel still uses one shoe and pushes out 2 cards at a time. I forget how many cards they use.
Pechanga uses 2 shoes and shuffles halfway down (again I do not remember how many cards)
