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FleaStiff
FleaStiff
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Thanks for this post from:
SanchoPanza
April 4th, 2011 at 4:29:43 AM permalink
All I need to know is how can I tell what number will roll next?
Doc
Doc
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April 4th, 2011 at 7:50:19 AM permalink
Quote: odiousgambit

Quote: Ayecarumba

... on a die with the "six" face up, and the pips in two vertical columns, what two numbers will be on the left and right faces?

I had to look at a die to see; a 'one' was not possible, but conceivably a set of two from 2, 3, 4, or 5 arranged so they add up to 7, that much was certain. By convention it evidently is only the one set [since I looked I won't answer].


I also looked, which is why I hadn't responded to this question. I am not completely certain that all dice are the same in this feature.

I have a box of dice that I purchased to use in teaching a statistics class years ago. All of those dice are the same, but then they all came from the same source. I also have a brass die (a paperweight) that is about an inch and a half thick. That paperweight is arranged with the proper opposite faces and with the same left-handedness I described a few posts above, but it differs from my other dice as to which direction the pips align on the 6 face.

There is no particular reason to think that this paperweight was manufactured with attention to such details, but since I have never really studied any specifications on dice, I am not yet convinced that all regulation dice have the pips of the six the same direction, or even that the left-handedness is universal.

In composing this answer, I found the dice specifications page for Midwest Game Supply. As for the arrangement of the faces, they specify that opposite faces add to 7 but nothing more about the arrangement.
MathExtremist
MathExtremist
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April 4th, 2011 at 8:37:47 AM permalink
Quote: Ayecarumba

Here is a tougher one (as usual, no internet searching):

If I am looking down on a die with the "six" face up, and the pips in two vertical columns, what two numbers will be on the left and right faces?


And a related question:
If you hold a die by opposite corners where the 4,5,6 and 1,2,3 faces meet, are the pips on the 3 face coplanar with your fingertips? What about the 2 face?

Note: adjusting this property is a known way to surreptitiously mark loaded dice.
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice." -- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
odiousgambit
odiousgambit
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April 4th, 2011 at 9:21:47 AM permalink
Quote: MathExtremist

And a related question:
If you hold a die by opposite corners where the 4,5,6 and 1,2,3 faces meet, are the pips on the 3 face coplanar with your fingertips? What about the 2 face?

Note: adjusting this property is a known way to surreptitiously mark loaded dice.



this has turned out to be more fun than I figured

however, I can't follow this. Holding a corner means the point where the faces meet ? If so wouldnt all the planes be going off at angles to your fingertips?
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!” She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
Doc
Doc
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April 4th, 2011 at 9:50:44 AM permalink
Quote: odiousgambit

... I can't follow this. Holding a corner means the point where the faces meet ? If so wouldnt all the planes be going off at angles to your fingertips?


I would reword the question this way: If you look at the point where the 1, 2, and 3 faces touch, do the pips on the 2 face and 3 face align with that point or not?

This is a feature for which my game dice and my brass paperweight agree. However, I note that the image of dice on the Midwest Game Supply Company web site (linked in my post above) shows the opposite configuration. So -- does that mean that one version is valid and one is not?

Edit: Interesting, regarding the images on the Midwest Game Supply Company web site -- on their "dice" page, the images match my dice, but on their "dice specifications" page, the image shows the opposite configuration. What might that mean?
MathExtremist
MathExtremist
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April 4th, 2011 at 10:22:44 AM permalink
Quote: Doc

I would reword the question this way: If you look at the point where the 1, 2, and 3 faces touch, do the pips on the 2 face and 3 face align with that point or not?

This is a feature for which my game dice and my brass paperweight agree. However, I note that the image of dice on the Midwest Game Supply Company web site (linked in my post above) shows the opposite configuration. So -- does that mean that one version is valid and one is not?

Edit: Interesting, regarding the images on the Midwest Game Supply Company web site -- on their "dice" page, the images match my dice, but on their "dice specifications" page, the image shows the opposite configuration. What might that mean?



Yeah, that's probably a better way of describing it. Or maybe "when you look at the 1,2,3 corner, are any pips immediately adjacent to it the way they necessarily are on the 4,5,6 corner?"

I don't know what to make of the Midwest dice specification page. That's just bizarre to me.
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice." -- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
SanchoPanza
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April 4th, 2011 at 10:39:32 AM permalink
Quote: MathExtremist

I don't know what to make of the Midwest dice specification page. That's just bizarre to me.


It shouldn't be. It follows New Jersey state law:

19:46-1.15 Adopted But Not Effective/Operative [See Last Date Below]

19:46-1.15 Dice; physical characteristics

(a) Except as otherwise provided in (b) below, each die used in gaming shall:

1. Be formed in the shape of a perfect cube and of a size no smaller than 0.750 of an inch on each side nor any larger than 0.775 of an inch on each side;

2. Be transparent and made exclusively of cellulose except for the spots, name or trade name of the casino licensee and serial number or letters contained thereon;

3. Have the surface of each of its sides perfectly flat and the spots contained in each side perfectly flush with the area surrounding them;

4. Have all edges and corners perfectly square and forming perfect 90 degree angles;

5. Have the texture and finish of each side exactly identical to the texture and finish of all other sides;

6. Have its weight equally distributed throughout the cube and no side of the cube heavier or lighter than any other side of the cube;

7. Have its six sides bearing white circular spots from one to six respectively with the diameter of each spot equal to the diameter of every other spot on the die;

8. Have spots arranged so that the side containing one spot is directly opposite the side containing six spots, the side containing two spots is directly opposite the side containing five spots and the side containing three spots is directly opposite the side containing four spots; each spot shall be placed on the die by drilling into the surface of the cube and filling the drilled out portion with a compound which is equal in weight to the weight of the cellulose drilled out and which forms a permanent bond with the cellulose cube, and shall extend into the cube exactly the same distance as every other spot extends into the cube to an accuracy tolerance of .0004 of an inch; and

9. Have imprinted or impressed thereon the name or trade name of the casino licensee in which the die is being used.

(b) Each die used in gaming at pai gow, pai gow poker, supreme pai gow or asia poker shall comply with the requirements of (a) above except as follows:

1. Each die shall be formed in the shape of a perfect cube and of a size no smaller than .637 of an inch on each side nor any larger than .643 of an inch on each side;

2. Instead of the name of the casino, a casino licensee may, with the approval of the Commission, have an identifying mark or logo imprinted or impressed on each die; and

3. The spots on each die do not have to be equal in diameter.

(c) Each die used in gaming at mini-dice or automated craps shall comply with the requirements of (a) or (b) above.

Effective: 06/05/78

As amended, effective: 12/16/91

As amended, effective: 10/19/92

As amended, effective: 01/19/93

As amended, effective: 10/06/97

As amended, effective: 08/20/07

As amended, effective: 11/16/09

As amended, effective: 06/21/10
odiousgambit
odiousgambit
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April 4th, 2011 at 10:41:06 AM permalink
Quote: MathExtremist

I don't know what to make of the Midwest dice specification page. That's just bizarre to me.



If something is wrong, and I am dice-less at the moment to check, I'd guess the people doing the art might not be cued in to what's proper, happens all the time of course.
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!” She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
MathExtremist
MathExtremist
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April 4th, 2011 at 10:41:26 AM permalink
No, not the rules -- the orientation of the pips on the image on that page. They're non-standard. Look closely.
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice." -- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
Ayecarumba
Ayecarumba
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April 5th, 2011 at 5:42:46 PM permalink
Quote: Ayecarumba

Here is a tougher one (as usual, no internet searching):

If I am looking down on a die with the "six" face up, and the pips in two vertical columns, what two numbers will be on the left and right faces?




As far as I can tell, from my experience, the "used in real casino" sourvenirs I have at home, confirmed by a quick image search in Google, the numbers on the sides when the 6 looks like 11, will be 5 and 2.

I cannot guarantee that this is always the case with the dice in every casino, but I set the dice a certain way when I shoot, and I cannot recall coming across a different alignment of faces in any Las Vegas casino. Has anyone seen different? Please take a look next time you shoot.
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