ChumpChange
Joined: Jun 15, 2018
• Posts: 2487
January 16th, 2021 at 2:04:58 PM permalink
I'm trying to fathom HA based on different betting amounts, specifically on the lay 6 or 8, because that's as far as I've gotten today.
Vig on win only

Bet 5:6 Pay Pay HA
\$24 \$20 \$19 2.2727%
\$30 \$25 \$24 1.8182%
\$36 \$30 \$29 1.5151%
\$42 \$35 \$33 2.5974%
\$48 \$40 \$38 2.2727%

And since a \$30 bet pays \$25 before the vig, does that bet count as a \$25 bet on a \$25 table minimum?

So what's the HA when the vig is paid upfront on all bets?
ChumpChange
Joined: Jun 15, 2018
• Posts: 2487
January 16th, 2021 at 6:44:19 PM permalink
Just found a betting scheme where I only lay the 6 or 8 if the bet has a 2.222% HA. So a \$96 bet with a \$4 vig pays \$80; \$4/\$180 = 2.222%. But that's when the vig is paid to the dealer on a win. What's the HA when the vig is paid no matter what? Tables in my area seem to want a vig no matter what.
Ahigh
Joined: May 19, 2010
• Posts: 5161
January 17th, 2021 at 5:44:40 AM permalink
I had a long response, but tersely, you never play vig-up-front bets on craps. I wouldn't make myself look inept by discussing the details, frankly, either.
ChumpChange
Joined: Jun 15, 2018
• Posts: 2487
January 17th, 2021 at 8:56:34 PM permalink
I thought I read that if the table minimum is \$25, the prop bet minimum is \$5, so I'd have to bet \$5 on the hard ways if I chose not to make any other \$25 bets.
So if the table minimum is \$100 on the pass line, is the table minimum on the hard ways \$25?
Chapz
Joined: Feb 26, 2020
• Posts: 33
January 17th, 2021 at 10:00:12 PM permalink
Is this right?

Vig rounded down to \$1

4/10: 1/(79+39) =0.8474% HA
5/9: 1/(58+38) =1.0416% HA
6/8: 1/(43+35) = 1.2820% HA
Ahigh
Joined: May 19, 2010
• Posts: 5161
February 15th, 2021 at 12:53:26 PM permalink
Quote: Chapz

Is this right?

Vig rounded down to \$1

4/10: 1/(79+39) =0.8474% HA
5/9: 1/(58+38) =1.0416% HA
6/8: 1/(43+35) = 1.2820% HA

No. When the vig is rounded down, you're being shorted \$1 out of \$75 due to be returned.

1.33% is the HA%, which is one over seventy-five.

This is one of the few bets on the table with a lower HA% compared to the pass-line (flat without odds).

There aren't many. Combined with a double-pay, this is a great bet, but it goes to the case of the \$20 multiple quickly, which is 1/60 which is 1.66% and not as good as the pass line.
Chapz
Joined: Feb 26, 2020
• Posts: 33
February 15th, 2021 at 1:05:12 PM permalink
Quote: Ahigh

No. When the vig is rounded down, you're being shorted \$1 out of \$75 due to be returned.

1.33% is the HA%, which is one over seventy-five.

This is one of the few bets on the table with a lower HA% compared to the pass-line (flat without odds).

There aren't many. Combined with a double-pay, this is a great bet, but it goes to the case of the \$20 multiple quickly, which is 1/60 which is 1.66% and not as good as the pass line.

The example is laying \$78 on 4/10 for a \$1 vig vs. \$1.95.

The edge goes down to .8474%, right?

Edit:

Or is it 1/79 1.27%?

All assuming vig is paid upfront.
Last edited by: Chapz on Feb 15, 2021