Hitting the Back Wall
My roll goes more than 40 min and I'm up $900 plus at this point. I have a really good groove going and the box man keeps getting angry because only one of my dice is hitting the back of the table. The way I roll from the side, my ring finger seems to push one of the dice downward so it doesn't hit the wall. I've been doing this the whole time and finally he's getting angry at me and is really raising his voice. He keeps saying "both dice have to hit the back of the wall!!!" I finally get angry and toss the dice really hard against the wall over the next four rolls and finally 7 out.
So, my questions are:
1. Can they force me to stop rolling because "one" of the two dice is not hitting the wall?
2. Is it just that they are trying to get in my head because I'm having a really good roll?
3. What is the worst that can happen in this scenario?
I just want to know what is acceptable or not acceptable. I think he really messed up a very long roll I was having. I'm sure that's his job.
1. If they have repeatedly advised you that you are required to hit the back board with both dice and you fail to do so, they can take the dice from you. Almost saw it happen at Hollywood, in Columbus OH about 9 months ago. After being repeatedly warned, shooter was told he would forfeit dice if it happened again. He got angry, took his chips and left.
2. Obviously, They wouldn't have bothered if you weren't kicking ass.
3. If you don't put up much of an argument, I would assume they would allow you to continue to play with someone else shooting. If you were to become belligerent, you probably would be asked to leave and escorted off the premises.
Always keep two things in mind: First, casinos in almost all jurisdictions reserve the right to refuse service/participation to ANYONE FOR VIRTUALLY ANY REASON. Second, you can complain to your state's gaming authorities if you feel you've been wronged, but it is a rare that they side with the player.
Also had a guy get pissed at me because I PSOed 4 times in a row. He blamed it on my not taking my time. I yelled at him and said then play the f'ing don't. Pretty funny that since I am a great tipper all the dealers backed me and basically asked the guy to shut up.
I guess my point is. OP, casinos have rules and 1 of them are hit the back wall. If you can't follow the rules of the game then you shouldn't be allowe'd to throw.
Quote: whodatSpeaking of the Don'ts and superstition. I wonder if you were to aim the dice at the don't stack on the other side of the table, hit it, and promptly 7-out. Could youblame the don't player for putting his stack in the way of your toss--"if you hit the chips, a 7 is sure to follow". :)
Hitting chips obviously brings a 7. However shouldn't hitting don't chips be reverse and bring the number.
Quote: GWAEHitting chips obviously brings a 7. However shouldn't hitting don't chips be reverse and bring the number.
I am going to try that next time and report back. I hated when I am playing at the $15 table and a "high roller" saunters up, takes a marker for $2000-$4000 and promptly plays the DP and lays the point ($100/$1000). Especially right where I normally like to toss the dice.
Quote: iamnomad
2. Obviously, They wouldn't have bothered if you weren't kicking ass.
They never allow you to not hit the wall with both dice, regardless of kicking as or not. If they let anyone do it, other players could be betting on it... if the shooter bets don't and gets on a monster roll, he ain't kicking ass but he will be kicked out for attempted dice setting.
Quote: iamnomad
Second, you can complain to your state's gaming authorities if you feel you've been wronged, but it is a rare that they side with the player.
This story is hard to believe at all... they let him shoot for how long without both dice hitting the wall? I've had the dice passed from me after doing it only twice after the first warning. Where was this game played at?
2. Idk, doubt it, since it doesn't matter how you throw the dice. The roll is gonna be random either way you throw them.
He didn't cause a 7-out.
3. What do you mean?
The 7 arrived just as randomly as all the other numbers you rolled.
The dealers/box can get in trouble for allowing people to break the rules of the game. One of those rules is hitting the back wall. If you have a long roll and never hit it with both dice, you are lot more likely to get multiple warnings than if you have a short roll. If you "PSO", they don't have much time to warn you.
I have seen dice taken away for short rolls--Paris, Las Vegas--the incident involved a decent roll, multiple warnings. and a refusal to hit the back wall (or even get near it on most rolls). It ended in security relieving the asshat rolling of his place at the table with due force. Dude, just hit the wall is what everyone was saying...
Well, he never did seven out...he was long gone before that happened...
Quote: RonCCongrats on a great roll...it is a lot of fun when that happens...
The 7 arrived just as randomly as all the other numbers you rolled.
The dealers/box can get in trouble for allowing people to break the rules of the game. One of those rules is hitting the back wall. If you have a long roll and never hit it with both dice, you are lot more likely to get multiple warnings than if you have a short roll. If you "PSO", they don't have much time to warn you.
I have seen dice taken away for short rolls--Paris, Las Vegas--the incident involved a decent roll, multiple warnings. and a refusal to hit the back wall (or even get near it on most rolls). It ended in security relieving the asshat rolling of his place at the table with due force. Dude, just hit the wall is what everyone was saying...
Well, he never did seven out...he was long gone before that happened...
Did they try to take the dice away from him (ie: pass the dice to the next player in line to shoot)? I hope there's more to it than them calling security on him just because he wouldn't hit the back wall! Then again, Paris is a little trigger-happy when it comes to security & kicking people out and stuff. Although I'd have to assume the player got all mad, threw a tantrum, while the dealer tried to give the dice to the next shooter, the original shooter probably tried to grab the dice and keep throwing? o.O
Quote: RSDid they try to take the dice away from him (ie: pass the dice to the next player in line to shoot)? I hope there's more to it than them calling security on him just because he wouldn't hit the back wall! Then again, Paris is a little trigger-happy when it comes to security & kicking people out and stuff. Although I'd have to assume the player got all mad, threw a tantrum, while the dealer tried to give the dice to the next shooter, the original shooter probably tried to grab the dice and keep throwing? o.O
The keyword was "asshat"--he was drunk and hollering at them asking him to hit the wall; his alcohol intake made him think that he got to set the rules rather than play by the actual rules of the game. He did not try to grab the dice when they passed them, but he did cause a commotion deserving of security's intervention. He was a potential danger to the crew and those around him.
He did make me a lot of money, though...I colored up about $500 up for a very short period of play once the replacement shooter began his actual turn. That came after he took over, rolled a couple more numbers, then the nasty one...
it varies all over the country, ON some 14 and 16 foot tables only 1 of the dice have to hit
the back wall, some will even let it slide if you miss with both dice, but you may get
a warning. In the casino's with a tub, they always want both dice to hit the back
wall.
I only hit the lower 1-2 inches of the back wall and that has never been called.
dicesetter
Quote: dicesitterdiscflicker
it varies all over the country, ON some 14 and 16 foot tables only 1 of the dice have to hit
the back wall, some will even let it slide if you miss with both dice, but you may get
a warning. In the casino's with a tub, they always want both dice to hit the back
wall.
I only hit the lower 1-2 inches of the back wall and that has never been called.
dicesetter
Interesting. I have many various forms of enforcement, but I have never been on a table for longer than a few minutes without someone being told to hit both dice against the back wall--short or long table. Sometimes they are all over it; others it happens the first time the don't make it to the wall.
Quote: JoelDeze
So, my questions are:
1. Can they force me to stop rolling because "one" of the two dice is not hitting the wall?
2. Is it just that they are trying to get in my head because I'm having a really good roll?
3. What is the worst that can happen in this scenario?
I just want to know what is acceptable or not acceptable. I think he really messed up a very long roll I was having. I'm sure that's his job.
Yes, you have to hit the back wall but once again it all depends if you're on a roll or you are losing! Guess what if you are losing they are not going to say a thing about hitting the back wall.
But let's look at what really happens when the dice hit the tables. The main reason for your dice must hit the back wall is because of all of the fiction that has been written on those DI boards and the DI schools that say their dice stay on axis.
But their dice do not stay on axis as these on axis schools want everybody to believe. These schools have never produced one slow motion video of their dice doing so! But there are hundreds of videos that show their dice bouncing all over the place when they hit the tables. All of these videos were made by what I call the so-called DI's!
Is there anybody you know in these videos?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2FYrndlrpc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0rAh1ug2Mk&list=UUUJo96xngJwaqh8rIk2whng
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqiptZZotMc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzXc2PXS114&index=12&list=TLPhC1SU9dvTE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k467uPlLn3A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzXc2PXS114&index=12&list=TLPhC1SU9dvTE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkU458iCDiY&list=UUZ0GZph2K4ebWI6FVaoaJdQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hheh7c6J77Y&index=34&list=UUZ0GZph2K4ebWI6FVaoaJdQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOOULZHKNo0&feature=youtu.be
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6NaIs8y_hE&index=37&list=UUZ0GZph2K4ebWI6FVaoaJdQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jej4WNRGyR8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DiZf3jbjie0&list=UUfDRf2L1rCEgYtGFlS_z9ag
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GS-R8XYUjhs&list=PL29EB7437F6533C12
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68pu1F0D_9g
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3_wQN7MELc
This guy found 172 videos on throwing the dice or dice control and put them all in one spot for your viewing pleasure and he surely saved me a lot of work! Just page down on the right side to see all of the videos he found.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MrqyVrQWck&list=PL57YTXgE9UrKJJZsOGpdaFhWAEETRt-rU
Lets not forget the one guy that had the best set-up for dice control, Aaron Hightower who went the extra mile to try to prove that dice control either work or it didn't. I have to give him a high-five for all of the work he put into it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2QS26ppbc8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBJwLtAORa0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXSfu5QDDVA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cM3qDV9Lz3Y
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdTzwChYv0U
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ni-uMB17x4I
Because of crazy shooting stories...
I was at Paris this weekend and had an a-hole next to me. This douche even gave me the evil eye after I sevened out rather quickly, not the kind of guy you want to play with (I should have realized this before he started to visually show his displeasure with everything). He was shooting and on a decent roll, like one point? Playing $50-60 on the table, couldn't even be considered a high roller at home. Then cliche 30 year old with a very attractive girl (prostitute me thinks) comes up and throws $100 on the table mid roll. Now, the dice were already given to the shooter (the a-hole next to me), so the dealers just left the cash out there for the roll rather than risk a collision on the toss. Smart decision, I would have done the same. The shooter then drops the dice, says nothing, turns his back, and walked 5-6 yards away from the table, turns around, and surveys the game, standing said 5-6 yards away. Again, he's said nothing the entire time the dice have been in front of him. Dealers start to question the situation and one of them says "Uh, I think he doesn't like the money on the table." So cliche kid gets paid his hundred dollars in chips and shooter comes back. Shooter sevens out in a few rolls.
Edit: Wynn not Sands. Sands?
Quote: bodyforlifeI think your question was answered. But as for the comments that I see on this forum constantly about how something had no influence on a person hitting that seven, I tend to disagree with the conventional thinking, because that really has nothing to do with why myself and others get annoyed with it. As much as I don't like a "seven out", I have no problem with it happening on what I would consider a normal roll. But I don't like people with poor etiquette doing things like late betting and hitting the dice with their hands or throwing a chip in the middle of the table and deflecting the dice. And I don't give a rat's ass if the number come up as a winner. The bottom line was it influenced the dice and I don't like that. Give me a normal roll with nothing influencing the dice and I'm fine with it, win or lose. Give me a bunch of morons playing that influence a roll, and I don't like it regardless of the outcome.
Why wouldn't you like it if the outcome gave you more money? Can I play craps with you, throw chips at the dice in the air, and you can give me the wins since you don't like them? "PULL!"
Quote: RogerKintWhy wouldn't you like it if the outcome gave you more money? Can I play craps with you, throw chips at the dice in the air, and you can give me the wins since you don't like them? "PULL!"
I think I explained it well enough, but let me make a suggestion to you. The next time you go to play, bring a couple of friends. When it's your turn to roll, have one stand at the other end of the table and when you throw the dice, have him swat at them while they're in the air, and then have your other friend swat them back (kinda like a game at volleyball). Then, regardless of the outcome, and everyone screaming "wtf's the matter with you idiots" as the pit boss yells "no roll"...you explain that the outcome doesn't matter because we had no way of knowing what it was (and that the roll should count) and see what everyone at the table thinks of your little theory (and I'll really love to see the reaction if it comes up 7). And then tell them that you'd like to change the game and call it "craps volleyball". I think it will go over well.
Quote: bodyforlifeI think I explained it well enough, but let me make a suggestion to you. The next time you go to play, bring a couple of friends. When it's your turn to roll, have one stand at the other end of the table and when you throw the dice, have him swat at them while they're in the air, and then have your other friend swat them back (kinda like a game at volleyball). Then, regardless of the outcome, and everyone screaming "wtf's the matter with you idiots" as the pit boss yells "no roll"...you explain that the outcome doesn't matter because we had no way of knowing what it was (and that the roll should count) and see what everyone at the table thinks of your little theory (and I'll really love to see the reaction if it comes up 7). And then tell them that you'd like to change the game and call it "craps volleyball". I think it will go over well.
Ya know, you might be on to something there. Kinda like when you're playing pool and a shot only counts if it hits at least one rail on the way into the pocket. Everybody gets a ping pong paddle, and the shooter has to toss them high enough that at least one player can swat them down onto the felt. Only rolls swatted count; no roll any that don't get interfered with.
Or, not. Lol....it would take the alligator wall out of it, at least.
Quote: bodyforlifeI think I explained it well enough, but let me make a suggestion to you. The next time you go to play, bring a couple of friends. When it's your turn to roll, have one stand at the other end of the table and when you throw the dice, have him swat at them while they're in the air, and then have your other friend swat them back (kinda like a game at volleyball). Then, regardless of the outcome, and everyone screaming "wtf's the matter with you idiots" as the pit boss yells "no roll"...you explain that the outcome doesn't matter because we had no way of knowing what it was (and that the roll should count) and see what everyone at the table thinks of your little theory (and I'll really love to see the reaction if it comes up 7). And then tell them that you'd like to change the game and call it "craps volleyball". I think it will go over well.
Quote: bodyforlifeAnd I don't give a rat's ass if the number come up as a winner.
This is worse than blackjack plops getting angry at 3rd base for "taking the dealers bust card." At least they're happy when 3rd base takes the card that would have made the dealer's hand. Loosen up a little maybe? It's craps, not tea time with the queen.
Quote: beachbumbabsYa know, you might be on to something there. Kinda like when you're playing pool and a shot only counts if it hits at least one rail on the way into the pocket. Everybody gets a ping pong paddle, and the shooter has to toss them high enough that at least one player can swat them down onto the felt. Only rolls swatted count; no roll any that don't get interfered with.
Or, not. Lol....it would take the alligator wall out of it, at least.
Thanks Beach,
I figured someone would appreciate it
Quote: RogerKintThis is worse than blackjack plops getting angry at 3rd base for "taking the dealers bust card." At least they're happy when 3rd base takes the card that would have made the dealer's hand. Loosen up a little maybe? It's craps, not tea time with the queen.
I am loose, That's why I gave you your sarcasm right back.
Quote: bodyforlifeI am loose, That's why I gave you your sarcasm right back.
I wasn't being sarcastic. If you don't give a "rats ass" about the money you make from rolls that have been interfered with by "morons" give it to me? PayPal? ;)
Quote: RogerKintI wasn't being sarcastic. If you don't give a "rats ass" about the money you make from rolls that have been interfered with by "morons" give it to me? PayPal? ;)
I'm sorry your comprehension level is such that you have to reduce things to childish stupidity. Let me know when you want to have an adult conversation instead of your foolish selective editing and stupid assumptions. I'm not interested in spoon feeding someone. You need to step up you intellect.
Quote: bodyforlifeQuote: RogerKintI wasn't being sarcastic. If you don't give a "rats ass" about the money you make from rolls that have been interfered with by "morons" give it to me? PayPal? ;)
I'm sorry your comprehension level is such that you have to reduce things to childish stupidity. Let me know when you want to have an adult conversation instead of your foolish selective editing and stupid assumptions. I'm not interested in spoon feeding someone. You need to step up you intellect.
Werd. My intellect game needs to be more on point.
Quote: DeMangoSeems the hair trigger for admin action on insults lately has gone cold!
Naw, just not reacting to your pot - stirring today, here or in a couple other threads. Though if you want a banning, I can arrange it....?
Quote: beachbumbabsThough if you want a banning, I can arrange it....?
I think consistency is what we all want. Am I being threatened to want that?
I Never played that game. Mexican guys like to play bank the 8 but I don't think that's what you're referring to.Quote: beachbumbabsKinda like when you're playing pool and a shot only counts if it hits at least one rail on the way into the pocket.
There is a BCA rule that says you must pocket a ball, if not a ball either the cue ball or another ball must make contact with a rail or it's considered a foul and your opponent receives ball in hand, meaning he can place the cue ball anywhere on the table prior to his shot.
There is bank pool where you bank balls off the cushion, however a simple contact with a rail won't count.
